Author Topic: Complicated Profiles Redux - Oh no, another pic (Read 19209 times)

Randy Powell · « **on:** January 24, 2009, 08:16:37 PM »

Well, it seems that the thread on profiles got zapped. Oh well.

Got more done on the toad today. Wing is starting to come together and I got a lot down on the nose and started shaping the stab. If ci can get going full blast on this thing again, should be able to start assembling it in a week or so. I discovered today that I'm out of leadout cable. So I'll need to dig some up. Sigh ... it's always something.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2009, 10:51:20 PM »

Ty,

Well, this one could be pretty light. Will be covered with iron on plastic.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2009, 07:16:04 PM »

If you can't find a packet of leadout cable in Tacoma, stop by a fishing tackle store and get 7-strand stainless cable. It doesn't have the dia. on the package usually, but has lb. test. I think it's 50 or 60 lb that you want. Same stuff, different package. Take a micrometer...they won't have one.

Whoah! I just found my stash of Sevenstrand, and the .027" is 135 lb. test. The .035" is 160 lb test. Either would work, but I think the 135# would be best for a .40VF unless you're rilly paranoid...which may be the case!

We missed you at TNA Saturday. It was a little cold, but nothing some warm clothes wouldn't fix. Think longjohns! Rodney had his new Gieske Nobler out, Mike got his Freedom 45 flying pretty well, Pete flew his Chipmunk and passed it along to Rod to take for a backup for VSC. I flew the Skylark and got it working reasonably well, with more yet to do. Probably be there again next weekend, if the current snow isn't a problem.

Steve

Randy Powell · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2009, 08:02:46 PM »

Steve,

I thought about it yesterday, but I hadn't heard from anyone. Oh well, I will plan for this weekend and hope the weather is decent. No VSC for me this year, but I still need to work on the Shoe.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2009, 09:20:08 PM »

Randy...You were included on my email list Friday night. I got an immediate reply from Mike, and Schultzie even showed up. I saw Rod replied Saturday AM, but don't know when it was sent. Pete didn't reply, but did show, as did Dane Covey. Nobody else replied or showed.

It really wasn't bad, but the LJ's made a difference! Fewer engine starting problems than last weekend. Good batteries help in the cold, and keeping them warm would help. Lighter Fluid is a majic elixor!

Steve

Randy Powell · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:34:01 PM »

Hmm, wonder why I didn't get the email? Lost in cyberspace.

Oh well, I'll hope to make it this weekend.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2009, 07:32:26 PM »

Well, here's the latest picture of the beast. the top is done on the wing (plank and cap strips). Will do the bottom next. The stab and elevator are just about ready for final shaping and the fuse is about ready to glue to the wing after a bit more work. It's coming along.

Al Rabe · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2009, 01:14:50 PM »

OK, how is this for a complicated profile? Dihedral, shock gear and cowled engine certainly complicates building a profile.

Al

Randy Powell · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2009, 01:33:21 PM »

Al,

About what I'm doing. Fun, isn't it? The one real trick was getting the engine canted at the correct angle to both allow the pipe to clear the wing and not hang down below the fuse. Alignment has been the biggest concern, really. The fuse is in 4 parts that have to lock together and be aligned. I've been working a jig to do that.

I sure like the Bearcat Sortaprofile. Very slick. The rules here for profile say that the engine has to be exposed "lugs to plug". Too bad, that.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:24:15 PM »

The wings almost done (doing the wing tips). Should be able to assemble it this weekend.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2009, 12:29:24 AM »

Didn't quite get it assembled, but the wing is done (and weighs about 7.5oz with controls but without flaps). I'm starting to think, as light as the wing is that I may need to cover it with silkspan to get some additional strength. Not sure Monokote will be enough. The stab and elevator are just about done. So tomorrow (nice to have a holiday), I'll clear the decks and set up for the fuse jig and start putting it together.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2009, 08:34:56 AM »

Randy,
Try silkspan with a few coats of dope then monokote it, works great, less work too!

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2009, 10:15:16 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on February 16, 2009, 08:34:56 AM

Randy,
Try silkspan with a few coats of dope then monokote it, works great, less work too!

Tried that once.. Dope made millions of bubbles under the monokote everywhere it was solid wood.. Maybe iron was too hot but made me not want to try it a second time.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2009, 10:43:37 AM »

I think the main thing the covering ever does is provide torsional stiffness. If the spar is inadequte for bending the covering is not going to make up the difference. I've done 2 I-beams and numerous RC wings with Monocote - they all stiffen up nicely when you get them covered and shrunk. Stick it down around the edges, shrink it, then go over it with an iron to press it down on every rib. That "closes the box" and makes every rib bay stiff. I think it will do the job for you here too. An added bonus, you can pull in or pull out a twist just by twisting the wing and "painting" it with a heat gun.

Maybe you want to try covering the wing before you install it. If you get both sides covered and decide that 'cote is not for you its fairly easy to remove - heat it a little, pick up a corner and it will come off pretty painlessly.

I agree with Bob R about doping under the 'cote - I never had much luck with that. I have occasionally used the Balsarite for films around the engine compartment & such - as a prevention for fuel seapage. However the larger the area you cover the worse it gets for trapping air bubbles and preventing shrinkage of the material. If I use it Balsarite, its limited to about one brush stroke around the perifery, then sealing the edges around the engine with epoxy or paint.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2009, 11:33:11 AM »

Dennis,

John Miller does the silkspan then Monokote finish. He does pretty well with it. He did a modified Legacy this way with transparent Monokote over the top and it looked pretty good. I may talk to him. Or if I get carried away, I may just do a dope finish. We'll see. Depends on my woodwork, I guess. I have some concern because I went a little light on the spar. Seems to be pretty torsionally stiff, but has a slight amount of vertical flex. I'm wishing now that I had run some carbon down the spar caps. But hey, it's a profile. If it doesn't hold together, then it doesn't. I suspect it won't be a high wind flier, but we'll see what we get. It has pretty good resistance to twist without the covering.

I'll take some pictures later and post them.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2009, 04:05:19 PM »

Sounds funny, here I am trying to talk you into a 'cote finish, meanwhile I just started my new Classic that all but MUST get a dope finish, my first since... 1983???

My friend what ever you do I will be looking forward to it!

John Miller · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2009, 05:26:37 PM »

Randy, as you know I learned this monokote over silkspan from Norm Whittle a few years ago. He is the master at it, and his finished planes are difficult to tell that it wasn't painted.

If the dope underneath bubbles, you've got too much dope on the surface.

1 or a max of 2 coats thinned at 50-50 or more, is all that I've ever used. You only want enough to stabilize the silkspan, not fill it.

Here's a picture of that Legacy. It still looks as good today.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:35:53 PM »

OK, a couple more pics. The wing and tail plane completed and the fuse in pieces. Just got the blocks tacked on. Will shape next then pop them off and put it together. The blocks and nose will get hogged out pretty well. Should be interesting.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:25:17 PM »

Looking mighty fine!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:32:12 PM »

carve away lad,, its looking better and better, cant wait to see it asssembled

Randy Powell · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2009, 11:01:50 AM »

Dennis and Mark,

Yea, I just got the block tack glued on last night. Sort of ran out of energy. I've been screwing with the Shoestring and haven't worked on the profile as much as I probably should have. I'll get the nose carved up then pop it apart and hog it out. The engine, which now is just clearing the blocks, will have to be exposed to the lugs. But I wanted to get the shape in first and carve out the header exit and such. Alignment should be interesting when I put it all together.

Airacobra · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2009, 09:42:46 PM »

Randy, I always love to see your work, but do you ever do anything that's easy?

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2009, 11:06:53 PM »

Quote from: Airacobra on February 18, 2009, 09:42:46 PM

Randy, I always love to see your work, but do you ever do anything that's easy?

oh gawd help me,, i cant help it,

, lol,, hey Randy, he said it I didnt!

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2009, 06:30:47 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on February 18, 2009, 11:06:53 PM

oh gawd help me,, i cant help it, , lol,, hey Randy, he said it I didnt!

What Mark said!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2009, 10:48:34 AM »

What? This is easy. Truth is, I've thought about this for quite awhile. I've got a jig setup that will make doing the alignment pretty easy (if I can get the thing setup to allow me to mount the engine while I adjust the jig).

While it's fairly high tech as profiles go, there's nothing there that's all that difficult. Much like building the wing, it just tedious, not difficult.

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2009, 06:23:33 PM »

Randy, if Al cut a slot in the cowl on one side would that meet the letter, if not the spirit, of the "lugs to plug" rule?

Patrick Rowan · « **Reply #26 on:** February 19, 2009, 10:31:27 PM »

I think he would have to take the cowl off.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #27 on:** February 20, 2009, 08:26:09 AM »

Well, the thing is in one piece now. Everything but the flaps and details. Amazing how quickly they go once the parts are done. I'll post some pictures this weekend once I get the rest of it together.

I need to get to the hobby shop to get some Monokote. Man, it's been a LONG time since I did an iron on finish. I may need to get Mark Scarborough out here to show me how.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #28 on:** February 20, 2009, 08:49:46 AM »

thanks Randy,,
lets see, I want to do some flying, its nicer over there than here,, hmmm
wanna pony up some gas money?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #29 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:29:58 AM »

Mark,

Well, we're flying at the Narrows tomorrow. It's actually supposed to be 55 degrees. Overcast with a ton of turbulence, but hey, you take what you can get. Rain is supposed to be back on Sunday.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #30 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:41:18 AM »

well 55 degrees is pretty nice compared to 34 that I have been seeing here, although at work in Lewiston here, its been in the low 50s this week, but of course I am at work,, I tried to call in sick, but I used the intercom and Alice figured it out, so I couldnt get away with it, something about being here and not looking sick? sigh

Randy Powell · « **Reply #31 on:** February 20, 2009, 02:25:11 PM »

One of the times when instant transportation would be nice.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #32 on:** February 20, 2009, 11:15:27 PM »

OK, last pics until it's done. Here it is in sort of one piece. Still in the temp jig, but alignment looks pretty good. It's in the nose holder thingy now and hanging in the air awaiting the flaps (under construction) and the landing gear (no idea how I'm going to to that yet).

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #33 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:50:57 AM »

"(no idea how I'm going to to that yet)."

OY!!!!!!!! You design as you go!!!?

Look great Randy, anxious to see the finished craft.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #34 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:47:17 PM »

Randy,

Finished the flaps today and am working on the rear pushrod. then it's fairing, the landing gear (yet to be designed, but I have an idea) then some odds and ends and I can put the iron on plastic on the flying surfaces. then paint the fuse and go flying. Maybe 2 weeks or so. I hope.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #35 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:43:49 PM »

OK, it's all framed up. Just need to come up with a landing gear arrangement and I can put the rest of the nose pieces on and get to finishing it. Still have no idea what I will do for a landing gear, but I had an idea....

RC Storick · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2009, 04:09:17 PM »

Thats a nice Ringmaster!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2009, 06:56:27 PM »

Yea, interesting, isn't it?

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #38 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:05:57 PM »

Randy (Powell)...twice you said you had an idea for the landing gear...do you remember what the idea was? Just checking.

And what the

is that stunter on the plan hanging on the wall?

Uh, no, don't make a copy for me...

Steve

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #39 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:10:13 PM »

I'm with you on that Steve....I was looking at that plan on the wall too. Sorta looks like a jetted up Shark or something. Very cool and I don't like jet styles that much!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #40 on:** February 24, 2009, 11:57:38 AM »

Steve,

I do have an idea, but I'm just not happy with it. I'll come up with something.

The plan on the wall is Dennis Adamisin's Orange Crate. The plane that got me off on my years long tangent of high aspect ratio planes. And it is a very cool design. Love the V-Tail.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #41 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:31:12 PM »

OK one last pic. here is is actually done except for the landing gear (which I finally got started on). And a few details like the rest of the nose blocks. Sigh...

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #42 on:** February 25, 2009, 10:03:35 PM »

well Randy old pal,, since I wax on endlessly about how much I like your stuff, I have decided to officially make no comment with regards to this one. ,
,
,
,
ok well I cant do that,, so, I do like it, its decidely a mix of old school and new school,, and to think, its going to be waterproof too? who woulda thunk!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #43 on:** February 26, 2009, 08:06:00 AM »

Mark,

You like the little custom pipe mount poking out under the wing? It was interesting making the flap root out far enough to clear the pipe and still matching up the flap area. Fun stuff.

I had planned to use transparent Monokot on the flying surfaces, but I have two rolls of white that have been sitting around forever, so I may just use those. We'll see.

I should note that most of this plane was constructed with balsa scraps and leftovers from previous planes. So I suppose it's fitting that the covering be Monokote I've had laying around forever.

Claudio Chacon · « **Reply #44 on:** March 01, 2009, 09:02:08 AM »

Hello Randy

I've came across this thread today and saw this BEAUTY you are building...Man, that woodwork is IMMACULATE!!!
VERY GOOD treatment on the fuse nose. A LOVELY job!
By this time, I'm sure it is finished...post some more pics... PLEASE

!

Sir...you better tell me everything about your building secrets and techniques, or else....

(I can see your brand-new stunter in the background "SCREAMING" for a flight....)

Keep those great pics coming!
Best regards,
Claudio.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #45 on:** March 01, 2009, 01:18:55 PM »

Claudio,

No, it's not done yet. I did what I often do, it seems. Got a bit carried away. I can't believe I'm building wheelpants for the thing. It' sjust about ready to finish. Shame I don't have any transparent yellow Monokote laying around. I may spring for some. We'll see.

The other plane is ready for it's maiden flight. If I could just get the time, weather and conditions to cooperate. maybe next weekend.

Here's the thread with a better picture.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=10954.50

I'll post some pics of the profile when it's done. Cut little plane.

Shultzie · « **Reply #46 on:** March 01, 2009, 06:00:56 PM »

We missed you at the Narrows on Sat....but the turd darn turbulence was horrific, the wind out of the north and coming over those nort hanger is waves of votexity death.
However Pete-Pete-n' Mike cut through that 8 to 20mph gusts...with gusto and grace.
Uhh?
In the process of of tackin all the Chips from my Chip back together again...while that kiddy nursery rhymn' keep goin round in my head... "ALL THE KINGS HORSES...AND ALL THE KINGS MEN...HUMPTYDUMPTY-BACK TO GETHAAAAAGAIN...

gee...Humpteeelooks awfully familiar?

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #47 on:** March 01, 2009, 06:15:20 PM »

Here's another take on a complicated profile. It's one of the many ARF Cardinals around. Construction appears to be plywood slabs over unnamed wood. Whatever the wood, there is a fruity odor when the ARF cover is stripped. I'm fiberglassing the nose and installing mounting plates on both sides of the engine bearers. All this to stiffen the front and dampen the vibes. Anyway, kind of interesting how complicated an ARF Cardinal fuse is.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #48 on:** March 01, 2009, 09:13:03 PM »

Good on ya, Dennis. Darned, these profile thingys can be fun. I ended up with a way too complicated wire gear. Should have just made a CF unit. I think it would have been easier.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #49 on:** March 02, 2009, 12:48:53 PM »

It goes on, fiberglassing the nose. And, Dan Banjoks madness, a re-plumbed Tettra Tank-- the fuel is stored exterior to the blatter instead of inside the blatter. Air is sucked out of the blatter and capped, tank is filled full, feed line attached to the engine, blatter is uncapped and attached to muffler pressure. Tahh Dahh, no air bubbles, engine runs an excellent 4x2 break (La46) engine goes lean for two laps and shuts off. Tank calmed down a P40 ARF that misbehaved for a season. We have hopes that my new Cardinal will run the same.