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Author Topic: Building Board  (Read 1531 times)

Offline AirClassix

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Building Board
« on: February 02, 2020, 10:19:53 AM »
I've been using Homasote for several years, works great.  Purchased 4' x 8' sheets at Home Depot, they cut it to sizes I specified.  Now that I need a fresh supply, Home Depot no longer carries it; only Menards has it in my area, and they won't do any cutting.

What would be a good substitute, something I can have cut to the size I want?


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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2020, 10:53:59 AM »
  You should be able to cut homasote with a safety knife pretty easy. Just figure out the rough dimensions you want and cut it up a bit oversize there at the store. Then trim to final size at home. Even a small fine toothed hand saw will do what you need to do. A little bit of extra work but at least you can find it in your area that way. Celotex ceiling tiles are another option. This material can be purchased in large sheets also to use for sound proofing. It cuts easily also.
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Offline louie klein

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2020, 01:20:05 PM »
I use a Melomine shelf ( very stable) and I glue pink styro to it . Make extra copies of plans to cut up and tape them to the foam, Don't forget the wax paper.---Louie

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2020, 02:36:49 PM »
I'd never heard of Homasote until you mentioned it.  Looks good, and I can use the sound absorption in my building bay.  Lowes has it, but I don't know yet if they cut it.
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Offline Leester

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2020, 03:40:41 PM »
I have Homasote on my table but I have dry wall that I actually build on. I wouldn't even attempt to cut it with a safety knife !! I used my circular saw and do it Outside as the dust is a killer !! My Menards doesn't handle it any more as I used it originally for a train table top.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2020, 04:34:49 PM »
I have Homasote on my table but I have dry wall that I actually build on. I wouldn't even attempt to cut it with a safety knife !! I used my circular saw and do it Outside as the dust is a killer !! My Menards doesn't handle it any more as I used it originally for a train table top.

   I have had a few experiences in needing to cut down a 4x8 sheet of something before it would get in the car, when the place had a way to cut it, but declined to. The best was a 4x8x6" 1 LB white foam, with a hand saw, right outside the loading dock. Very very quickly, they offered to cut it themselves, inside, because of the extraordinary mess of loose foam beads that are impossible to sweep and blow around everywhere. Back in the store, 2 minutes with their big bandsaw w/debris system, nicely fits in the car.

     Either drywall or Homasote (or the many other rip-off versions that will happily sell  you at Lowes or Home Depot) cuts easily and pretty cleanly with a utility knife. Drywall, just score the paper on one side, break it, then cut through the paper on the other side. Nobody tries to cut it with a saw, that's a complete mess.

   To be honest, unless you are doing a lot of stick/tissue work using air-drying glue, I much prefer melamine laminate surfaces. They are disposably cheap, and you can just Hot Stuff or 3M77 jigs and supports to it.

     Brett

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2020, 09:17:43 PM »
Like others. I use melamie board
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Offline AirClassix

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2020, 09:28:57 PM »
   I have had a few experiences in needing to cut down a 4x8 sheet of something before it would get in the car, when the place had a way to cut it, but declined to. The best was a 4x8x6" 1 LB white foam, with a hand saw, right outside the loading dock. Very very quickly, they offered to cut it themselves, inside, because of the extraordinary mess of loose foam beads that are impossible to sweep and blow around everywhere. Back in the store, 2 minutes with their big bandsaw w/debris system, nicely fits in the car.

     Either drywall or Homasote (or the many other rip-off versions that will happily sell  you at Lowes or Home Depot) cuts easily and pretty cleanly with a utility knife. Drywall, just score the paper on one side, break it, then cut through the paper on the other side. Nobody tries to cut it with a saw, that's a complete mess.

   To be honest, unless you are doing a lot of stick/tissue work using air-drying glue, I much prefer melamine laminate surfaces. They are disposably cheap, and you can just Hot Stuff or 3M77 jigs and supports to it.

     Brett

Thanks All for your responses.  I'll probably suck it up and cut a board myself.

Brett, Thanks for your comments regarding jigs and supports.  Great idea!  I'm going to tackle a wing which will require jigs, tacking them down would be perfect.


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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2020, 09:45:18 PM »

 I use a large rectangular ceiling tile flipped with the finished side down. As long as the surface you're laying it on is nice and flat you're good to go.
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2020, 10:19:40 PM »
I'd never heard of Homasote until you mentioned it.  Looks good, and I can use the sound absorption in my building bay.  Lowes has it, but I don't know yet if they cut it.

    Homasote is a building material. And like Ty mentioned, it is really just thick chip board, like the sheet on the back of the legal tablets you use and other padded paper. Like Celotex, it is used as a sound proofer and insulator. And some stores even went by the term "train board", as has been mentioned, it is used by model rail roaders to cover the tables for train lay outs. You can build either a lattice type table and put the board down, or layer over a wood table top. It's used for trains because it is easy to push track nails into as you lay track and secure it down, and it deadens the sound of the train rolling down the tracks. Hard for some to believe how noisy an HO train can be if you don't do this. It's also easy to work with if you are making changes in the grade or angle of a track elevation.
  Hey Ty, the hardware store you are remembering was the old Central Hardware at I-270 and New Halls Ferry Road. They were the first to use the term "Ask our orange coated experts" and their moto was "Everything from scoop to nuts!."  They were a pretty good hardware store and the first of the big box do it yourself places. They got driven out of business by two other big box hardware companies, whose name I can't remember, because ironically they got driven out of town by Lowes and Home Depot! And several of these stores are closing up due to competition from Menards!
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2020, 10:36:39 PM »
Thanks All for your responses.  I'll probably suck it up and cut a board myself.

Brett, Thanks for your comments regarding jigs and supports.  Great idea!  I'm going to tackle a wing which will require jigs, tacking them down would be perfect

   A lot of people use thick plate glass for the same thing, but, its expensive. The melamine-faced board is dead flat and has very thin coating, and 2x4" panel was about $6 last time I got it. You can clean it up for a while, scrape it then when it's too bad, just toss it.

   Brett

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2020, 11:10:21 PM »
 I've found it impossible to push pins into plate glass.  :##

 I do have a second (main) workbench with a 1/2" plate glass top that gets used a lot, just depends on the task at hand.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2020, 11:50:14 PM »
I've found it impossible to push pins into plate glass.  :##

 I do have a second (main) workbench with a 1/2" plate glass top that gets used a lot, just depends on the task at hand.

   Yes, but you can glue blocks to it, into which you push pins if necessary. Pins aren't used much for conventional construction any more - that went out with Ambroid, which also led to the end of pinholes that you had to fill and hope they didn't shrink.

    Brett

 

Offline Dennis Nunes

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2020, 04:58:25 AM »
   A lot of people use thick plate glass for the same thing, but, its expensive.

I’ve been wanting a glass top for my workbench ever since I return to this hobby several years ago. Two years ago I got several quotes for a new piece of tempered glass that was 3/8" x 30" x 72" for my workbench. The lowest quote I received was $290! That was too steep for my budget.

Here is where perseverance pays off. One day I was browsing the Marketplace on Facebook and there was a local ad for, not one, but two pieces of 1/2" x 30” x 72” glass. When I asked about the condition of the glass the lady said they are clean but have some clear silicon around the edges.

I only needed one piece of glass but she insisted on selling both of them as a pair. When I got there the glass was just a she described. All nice and clean with some silicon around the edges. When I asked her about the price she said $20 for the two. I couldn’t get the $20 out of my pocket fast enough!  #^ #^ #^

I asked her where they came from. She said they were part of a display case for a department store and they were just going to throw them away.

So I bought both and now I have a beautiful flat surface on my workbench AND my computer desk, that just happens to be the same size, now has a beautiful glass surface!

But beware! I almost got a hernia picking them up. One piece of 1/2" x 30” x 72” tempered glass weights almost a 100 pounds!  %^@

Dennis



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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2020, 09:09:00 AM »
Hey fellows forget the wax paper.  Use parchment paper from the baking section in grocery store.   D>K
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2020, 10:36:50 AM »
But beware! I almost got a hernia picking them up. One piece of 1/2" x 30” x 72” tempered glass weights almost a 100 pounds!  %^@

     We did a little "midnight refurbishing" to our work area about 20 years ago, part of which was removing 4x4 foot panels of 1/2" leaded glass, leaded to the point it was conductive and thus created a faraday cage for the entire building. I was the dumb muscle of the operation, and was in charge of holding up the panel and moving it once the perpetrators cut the pins that held it in. 250 lbs and very awkward, and most of them had to be tilted to get them out at all. Any relationship to me missing the Southwest Regionals last week due to severe back spasms is conjectural.


   Brett

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2020, 07:12:42 PM »
  If you are using glass for a building surface, don't just assume that it is flat. Glass can warp, vary in thickness, and flex! It is considered a liquid! When I was an adult education welding instructor, I had students that were from the local glazier's union. I taught them how to weld steel out of position good enough to install their own clips for mounting curtain wall window framing. They informed me on all sorts of information on glass. If it's old glass and been installed or stored in the vertical position, the bottom will likely be thicker than the top, as gravity will have it's way with it over time. Lay the sheet glass on your work bench and check out with a straight edge carefully. You may find if your bench isn't flat, it will follow it, and you will need to shim it with paper or business cards. I have always wondered how marble would compare to glass, if you could acquire it in manageable thicknesses?
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2020, 09:10:49 PM »
   Yes, but you can glue blocks to it, into which you push pins if necessary. Pins aren't used much for conventional construction any more - that went out with Ambroid, which also led to the end of pinholes that you had to fill and hope they didn't shrink.

    Brett


 Just poking some fun Brett.  H^^
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2020, 09:17:07 PM »
  If you are using glass for a building surface, don't just assume that it is flat. Glass can warp, vary in thickness, and flex! It is considered a liquid!

 Yep, once laid in place you definitely want to check it over closely and shim as necessary. Mine didn't take much work to "get it there" though.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2020, 09:57:14 PM »
  If you are using glass for a building surface, don't just assume that it is flat. Glass can warp, vary in thickness, and flex! It is considered a liquid!

  Glass does not flow over the time frames you would care about for your lifetime, or your descendants. Glass is called a "liquid" because it is amorphous (i.e. not crystalline) but it's certainly a solid for any practical purpose. Old windows have not gotten thicker at the bottom. It can flex slightly when loaded but will not take a set unless you heat it like when it was originally made.

  I don't know about marble, but granite is certainly another option. Pool tables are made, typically, of 3 peices of maybe 3/4-1" thick granite. They used to throw it out when refurbishing the tables, and you could apparently get it for free because that meant they didn't have to get rid of it. Now, apparently 6 months before I started looking, they just epoxy it back together.

    Any of these options are fine as long as you have a very solid table beneath it, and shim it flat.

     Brett

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2020, 11:29:17 PM »
Years ago when I was traveling and selling building materials, Homosote was a product we carried.  I made a trip to their plant in New Jersey and it is made with recycled newspapers.  I watched the whole process from start to finish and it was quite interesting.

I guess over the years I have used everything to build on; Armstrong Ceiling tile, Homosote, sheetrock, etc .  Also had rod jigs and the Jim Snelson jig (which takes a LOT of time to set up).  I now use two methods depending upon the kind of wing I am going to build.  If it is a full rib wing, I use a magnetic building board and it is by far my favorite way to build a wing.  I lay the sheet metal on my glass covered workbench and build the wing.  I also build the Millennium wing system that Tom Morris uses and use the building table I bought from him years ago.  This system produces a dead straight wing, or as close as you can get to one. 

There are lots of ways to build a wing and I have used most all of them but it is hard to beat the magnets.

Mike
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Offline Curare

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2020, 09:49:04 PM »
I have a granite (ex pool table) workbench, with a sheet of toughened safety glass on top.

The granite is half a pool table (so roughly 3'x3'  is nearly an inch thick and weighs in excess of 100 pounds, it takes two guys to lift it, and I can tell you that you can put a twist of more than a few thou in it if you want to.

The trick to ANY flat workbench is a GOOD straightedge, shims and patience.


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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2020, 11:01:17 PM »
The granite is half a pool table (so roughly 3'x3'  is nearly an inch thick and weighs in excess of 100 pounds, it takes two guys to lift it, and I can tell you that you can put a twist of more than a few thou in it if you want to.

   I once attempted to find misalignment in an old airplane on a 8'x8'x12" thick, Grade AA, granite surface plate. The airplane was straight to the limits of me determining the location of the reference points on the airplane, which might have been .010". It still flew like crap.

    Brett

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Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Stop screwing around...
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2020, 09:02:13 PM »
It's too bad that stupid doesn't hurt

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Stop screwing around...
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2020, 09:15:49 PM »
Wow Brett,  that is a leetllle steep for someone on Social Security.  LOL

Mike


   Well, the listing does say "make offer"! If I had the room for it, I would have it! That's not a bad price for what it is. Lots of other uses for it also.
   I was working on a heat press at work, ang in the process discovered the main platen was made from aluminum tool plate. I did some research on that and it's a precise casting that can be had in almost unlimited sizes, in ludington sizes like the surface table in the eBay add and even larger! A piece to make a replacement platen that was 1" by 44" by 64" was quoted at only 750 bucks. The surface is supposed to be flat within .005" over the whole area. That's pretty acceptable.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Stop screwing around...
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2020, 09:53:54 PM »
Wow Brett,  that is a leetllle steep for someone on Social Security.  LOL

    OK, well, of course I have one (in my one-bedroom apartment), and I assume Derek has one, so my conclusion is, if you don't have your own 2500 lb 10" thick Grade A granite surface plate, you aren't really serious about stunt.

   "OOOH Brett, it's too heavy and broke through the floor", "I can get by with a Grade B surface plate", "I need to pay for my brain tumor surgery", "my family has to eat this month"  -  well boo hoo, no more excuses, get with the program. No pain no gain!

    Brett

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Re: Stop screwing around...
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2020, 10:00:37 PM »
The surface is supposed to be flat within .005" over the whole area. That's pretty acceptable.

  Maybe if you fly RC!


    No compromises! We shall become all powerful! Crush the lesser building tables! Conquer the NATs! Unimaginable power! Unlimited rice pudding! Et cetera, et cetera!

    Brett



Offline T.J. Vieira

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2020, 05:57:28 AM »
  I don't know about marble, but granite is certainly another option. Pool tables are made, typically, of 3 peices of maybe 3/4-1" thick granite. They used to throw it out when refurbishing the tables, and you could apparently get it for free because that meant they didn't have to get rid of it. Now, apparently 6 months before I started looking, they just epoxy it back together.
     Brett

i always thought they were slate?  At least every table I've ever put together, including a 1908 Brunswick my father and I restored were all slate.  It used to be significantly thicker than they are made now, however....  I had to go find my stones after carrying down the pieces for the 1908!  But i've also worked on tables from the 50's, 70's, and 90's, they were all slate as well.

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2020, 10:26:42 AM »
i always thought they were slate?  At least every table I've ever put together, including a 1908 Brunswick my father and I restored were all slate.  It used to be significantly thicker than they are made now, however....  I had to go find my stones after carrying down the pieces for the 1908!  But i've also worked on tables from the 50's, 70's, and 90's, they were all slate as well.

  Of course, you are correct, I was thinking slate but wrote granite. They even call them "slates".

   I found it interesting that they stopped just throwing out the chipped or otherwise defective slates about a month before it dawned on me to go looking for them for a build surface(which, as a point in fact, was about 1985). It's like stunt engines, by the time we can decide they are really good stunt engines, they are discontinued.

   A good possibility today is someone's old granite or marble kitchen counters. I don't know about anywhere else, but redoing the kitchen every 10 years or so is a very common thing around here. They just go in and knock out the old countertops with a hammer and toss the remains. A kitchen remodel is about $100000 or so, typically, the cost of the materials is such that no one bothers to salvage it.

   For most purposes, even a 2' by 4' section (out of a 32" x 8 foot countertop) is useful, so just find the biggest chunk, cut it off square to suit your OCD/perfectionist desires, good to go.

   By the way, all joking aside, Dan's right - that is not a bad cost at all for a granite surface plate, and there are a lot of them available as precision machine shops go out of business. If had a place to put it in 1986, and could have gotten a similar deal (about half price of a new one in 1986 dollars), I would probably have gotten one. It's overkill, I would bet that a Grace B or lower is much cheaper than a Grade AA or A, even less without a recent inspection/calibration certificate. I am slightly tempted to go get one and store it for my post-retirement move, but I am going to be dead in 25 years or so, so why bother?

    Of course, any of these graded measurement references is great overkill. I think I can get the "no load, thermally stable" alignment measurements to something like .015-.020", about the width of a fine pencil line using pretty conventional methods. Beyond that, no, and it doesn't matter because as soon as the sun hits it, and even more so, you take your nice straight-to-0.015" wing and then put 60-70 lbs of load on it, it's going to flex by 1/2-3/4" at the bare minimum. Selecting the wood grade and the structural design  to improve symmetry from one side to the other is much more important than measuring it to a few thousandths, even if you could.

    Brett

Offline Curare

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2020, 06:19:14 PM »

    Of course, any of these graded measurement references is great overkill. I think I can get the "no load, thermally stable" alignment measurements to something like .015-.020", about the width of a fine pencil line using pretty conventional methods. Beyond that, no, and it doesn't matter because as soon as the sun hits it, and even more so, you take your nice straight-to-0.015" wing and then put 60-70 lbs of load on it, it's going to flex by 1/2-3/4" at the bare minimum. Selecting the wood grade and the structural design  to improve symmetry from one side to the other is much more important than measuring it to a few thousandths, even if you could.

    Brett

Having witnessned my black Cobra go wonky in the sun I can confirm! Also, yes my benchtop is slate, I seemed to have followed your groupthink on this one!

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Offline AirClassix

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Re: Building Board
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2020, 07:00:10 PM »
Update: I discovered the Homasote wasn't at all difficult to cut with my trusty Scotch brand box cutter, problem solved.

Thanks guys!  I only tried it 'cuz you said it could be done …


Dennis
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