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Author Topic: Building another one  (Read 26976 times)

Online Doug Moon

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #150 on: May 22, 2013, 09:53:29 AM »
21. All cleaned out, nothing left but the edge of the original base and the glass.
22. Weighs 5/8 oz.  It is fuel proof too.  It will get clear inside as well.
23. The PA 75 is hiding.
24. Trimmed away the front for proper cooling.
25. The front mounts are completed. 

I still have a little ways to go on it.  Rear mounts and some filler wood around the front to give it some thickness at the edges.  I hope to get that done today.
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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #151 on: May 22, 2013, 11:11:20 AM »
You need a bigger engine....
Steve

Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #152 on: May 22, 2013, 12:32:40 PM »
Very cool approach.
I might try it soon....

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #153 on: May 22, 2013, 01:26:17 PM »
Pat Johnston does this. Carve the cowl from blue or gray foam. Fit it then glass it. Then use acetone to remove the foam leaving the fiberglass cowl behind. Cool technique.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #154 on: May 22, 2013, 02:24:53 PM »
Same way I do my cowls too, I use Urethane foam, it will not melt with solvents either,, you have to dig it out, but it works much easier,,
the blue , pink or white foam will melt,,
That green foam looks like Urethane florists foam for doing plant arrangments
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #155 on: May 23, 2013, 05:13:53 PM »
So how much smaller do you make the base and rest of plug to allow for the wall thickness of finished cowl. 
Sounds like you normally make the glass layup from multiple layers of .75oz,  how many layers is sufficient ?
Allan Perret
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Online Doug Moon

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #156 on: May 24, 2013, 07:05:59 AM »
So how much smaller do you make the base and rest of plug to allow for the wall thickness of finished cowl. 
Sounds like you normally make the glass layup from multiple layers of .75oz,  how many layers is sufficient ?

Hello Allan,

The glass is actually pretty thin. If you make the base smaller by 1/64-1/32 it should be enough to compensate for the layer of glass.  If you can manage just 1/64 it should be right on the money.  This one initially came out too small. The base only needs to be smaller by just a tad but has to be uniform all the way around.

I normally use 1 layer of 6oz for the strength, then a layer of 2 oz, then a layer of .75 oz for the finish.  I also add multiple strips around the mouth area on the corners and all over the nose ring area.  But I always had some thin areas and had to be careful of sanding through it at the edges.  In the future I will probably go with 3 layers of 2 oz, let it cure then come back with 3 layers of .75 oz.  I liked how it came out doing it in two stages. After the initial setup had dried I was able to insert some balsa around the mouth area in those corners and the second layup really added some overall strength in those areas and on the whole part.
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Online Doug Moon

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #157 on: May 24, 2013, 08:06:09 AM »
Now I need to complete the rear mounts.

1. I use two pieces of arrow shaft glued in with epoxy mixed with milled fiberglass right at the tank floor/fuse joint.  Milled fiberglass in 5 minute epoxy makes for some tough stuff.  And since the cowl gets removed many times over its life it’s important that it can take a beating. Plus it kicks off in about 3 minutes instead of 5!  
2. Insert two pieces of wooden dowel.
3. Place the cowl on the model and mark the inside where the dowels will be attached. Having a big open mouth makes working inside the part pretty easy.  
4. Add balsa to the cowl at the marks.  I intentionally make the balsa pieces to think and sand them down to where they are touching the dowels at this point.  It takes several fits to get the outside perfectly flush with the fuse and the dowels just resting up against the balsa mounts.
5. Once I am happy with the fit.  I drip a little epoxy onto the joint between the dowel and the mount. While this dries I replace the broken blade grips on my helicopter.  Helicopters and fences don't get along to well.  This gives the epoxy ample time to set.  I do this with the cowl on the plane and the front mounting screws are in place and tight.  This is how the cowl will be sitting in the final position.  
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Online Doug Moon

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #158 on: May 24, 2013, 08:08:37 AM »
6. Trim away any excess balsa and add more epoxy with milled fiberglass to the dowel/mount joint.  
7. Side view.  Round the dowel ends just a tad as the cowl will need to lift up just a tiny bit to go over the needle as it slides off the model.
8. Inside view once it is in place on the model.  
9. Mounts are complete and hidden for the most part.  The scale still says 5/8 oz.  I will come back and add in a piece of 3/32 balsa in the mouth of the cowl to give it a nice uniform thickness across that front edge.  Since that is an exposed edge it looks nicer, to me anyways, to have a little thickness there like you would see if it were a balsa cowl. I like this method because the cowl is held in place from two different angles.  The part slides in place from the front, spinner has to be off to get it on the model.  Then the screws go in vertical.  
10. Almost a complete model.  

I will come back and add in a ½” wide piece of 1/64 ply flush with the front of the bottom block where it meets the cowl. Not on the edge but actually inside the block.  This helps it keep shape and give it strength.  I will add a small drain hole, lined with an aluminum tube, at the front of the bottom block and the rear of the cowl as well. I had a leaky tank in my 2009 model and I didn’t know it right away, PA still ran flawless, and several flights was all it took to soak that front lip of the bottom block. Raw 15% nitro sitting inside the fuse for a few days can do some serious damage. I will come back in and seal the engine bay and pipe tunnel again with thinned epoxy.  

 I have only the fin between the rudder and the turtle deck and it will be done.  I can see light at the end of the build tunnel.  I add the fillets after I cover the wood so I count them in the finish.  What you see here weighs 29.75 oz.  That puts me about 1.75 oz over my target.  I plan to fill mostly with dope so I am hoping to make some of that back.  Just for reference from the tip of the rudder to the nose ring it is 46.75” long.  The stab span is 29” and the wing span is 63”.
Doug Moon
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Online Doug Moon

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #159 on: May 24, 2013, 08:26:11 AM »
You need a bigger engine....


hmmmmmmmmm.....  Now that's a good idea.  I thought I heard something years ago about a PA 82??  Am I mistaken??  hmmmmm,,,, I wonder if there are any hiding is the Southeast...   ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 01:37:59 PM by Doug Moon »
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #160 on: May 24, 2013, 09:56:22 AM »
That is more or less what I do. I usually use carbon dowel and aluminum tubing but the same idea.

Nice work.
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Offline Louis Keller, Jr.

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #161 on: May 24, 2013, 11:52:55 AM »
Wonderful thread Doug. I'm learning from it and getting inspiration to build. Been practicing any to defend your title? Hope to see y'all at the next Dallas contest.

Online Doug Moon

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #162 on: May 28, 2013, 07:21:33 AM »
The cowl is complete.

I added in some balsa to the front edge and put in the Nicad hole.

I added a 1/64 ply stip inside the front of the bottom block.  I also glassed the joint at the opening of the pipe tunnel.



Doug Moon
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Online Doug Moon

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #163 on: May 28, 2013, 07:35:13 AM »
I added the small fin between the rudder and the canopy.

I as of 5/27/2013 I am calling the build portion of this plane completed.  There is more to do but that will get taken care of during the finishing.  

Max likes it too.

Last years plane sits beside it taunting the new rookie.

Oh yeah, it weighs 30 oz. 
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #164 on: May 28, 2013, 03:01:11 PM »
Lookin' real good Doug! 

Been following this from the first piece of wood cut, and I've definitely learned some good stuff to incorporate on my next plane whenever that may be.

Matt Colan

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #165 on: May 28, 2013, 05:46:28 PM »
Oh yeah, it weighs 30 oz. 
How does that compare to the other one at this stage ?
Allan Perret
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Online Doug Moon

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #166 on: May 29, 2013, 01:00:18 PM »
How does that compare to the other one at this stage ?

If I remember correctly the other one was 29oz at this stage.  Then there was a big problem with the spray gun and I had to reprimer it and ended up adding a bunch of weight to it.

I am going to be using alot of dope filler this time and less primer to see if I can keep the weight down.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 10:37:42 PM by Doug Moon »
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Building another one
« Reply #167 on: November 30, 2013, 06:45:16 AM »
Hope it's okay to bump this one. I'm about a year off from starting to build my first full fuselage plane, probably an Oriental with a glow engine. So I've started keeping an eye out for threads that would make good tutorials for me to bookmark and read. It will be a kit, so much simpler in many ways, but this still looks like a good one for the book. I've built many profile planes, I'm good at that and they look pretty and fly well, but it's time for me to graduate to the next level. I'll start a build thread when the time comes.
Reading, researching, and learning.

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