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Author Topic: Build threads look fun  (Read 60010 times)

Online Dave_Trible

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Build threads look fun
« on: May 10, 2013, 08:33:33 PM »
I had committed myself to do a build thread on the Sterling Spitfire and I will but with recent events I'm moving that build down one knotch and going to build another of my Desperado airplanes to replace the one I damaged and retired.  I started cutting wood when it occurred to me I could try adding this new dimension to the process and I might show some of my methods which to some are different and perhaps strange but that's what this is about.  So grab some popcorn and settle in.   I'm working from an Iphone and struggle at times to crop the photos down to the size I can upload here.  For that reason I have found I can only send one shot at a time and my inputs may seem choppy.

The first shot is showing that I have made 1/16 ply root and tip templates to make the rib sets.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 08:42:30 PM »
Next I'm making the leading edges.  These consist of an edge and an identical cap which is put on after sheeting. These are 3/16 x 7/8 and are router cut using a 3/16 plywood template to which balsa blanks are taped with double sided tape and run on the table router.  I get perfectly straight edges this way.  The spars are laminated and made the same way.  The trailing edge is just very straight 1/4 sq.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 08:44:04 PM »
Edges are spar laminations cut and ready to be glued up.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 08:46:23 PM »
I've taken the root template and traced off 24 blanks from 4-6 # balsa.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 08:49:24 PM »
Now drilling two 1/8" holes in each blank for bolting a stack of blanks together for shaping.  All for tonight.

Dave
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 09:14:48 PM »
Dave,

Build threads are fun to do until someone points out something dumb you did. Then not so much.    LL~
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2013, 09:20:52 PM »
Dave,

Build threads are fun to do until someone points out something dumb you did. Then not so much.    LL~
Randy, now how would you know about that,, I never say anything like that on your build threads,,

well unless you said it yourself,, D>K
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 11:16:25 PM »
Build threads are fun to do until someone points out something dumb you did. Then not so much.    LL~

I dunno.  I find the pain of screwing up publicly and getting it pointed out before I bury it under other work is less than the pain of un-building down to the screwup.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2013, 06:19:45 AM »
Dave,

Build threads are fun to do until someone points out something dumb you did. Then not so much.    LL~
You guys are too much!  Let me assure you,  if I screw up it will be completely intentional.

Dave
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2013, 07:25:21 AM »
Well #+>!%%.  I've tried this morning to upload another photo but the server refuses to take it so I'll try later from work.  I love technology.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2013, 07:36:34 AM »
I brazed up some 1/8" music wire control horns.  Back to finish later.


Now it's seeing double.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2013, 08:37:53 AM »
Multitasking.  Still finishing the take-apart Desperado.  Here parts hanging to dry.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2013, 09:31:32 AM »
Thanks for the photo build of the new plane.   As far as pictures I have problems also when this new fangled electronic gadgetry decides it doesn't want to work.   And then all of a sudden you realize you have made three posts of the same thing.   What is exasperating is trying to remember what size the pics should be for each forum.   

Well the weather is sunny and warm outside, but it is windy.   Need to get back on that elm tree.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2013, 11:10:20 AM »
Drives me nuts John.  I crop all pics to the same size and one goes another doesn't.  Seems worse with white backgrounds and closer shots.  I'll figure it out I guess.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2013, 03:01:35 PM »
I like a guy that a guy that makes his own horns. Cool.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2013, 03:09:02 PM »
Here I've  bolted half the rib blanks between the root and tip templates ready to carve and sand.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2013, 06:41:44 PM »
Drives me nuts John.  I crop all pics to the same size and one goes another doesn't.  Seems worse with white backgrounds and closer shots.  I'll figure it out I guess.
It's the file size -- some of the ones you're trying to upload are HUGE, and there's a 1MB limit.

You need an app that resizes photos.  There's supposed to be photo resizing sites out there, but I know nothing -- I know nothing at all.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2013, 07:41:05 PM »
Yeah Tim I'm catching on a little but my cropping ability on the phone is limited.  Funny but that last photo wouldn't go at all...until I logged out and then back on.  Then it did fine.   We'll struggle along.

Dave
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2013, 07:50:50 PM »
Here I've  bolted half the rib blanks between the root and tip templates ready to carve and sand.

When I stack sand ribs I do both sets together. I separate everyother one for inboard and outboard sides. Thus leaves less of a angle on the rib.Us rib 1,3,5,7,9,11 and ribs 2,4,6,8,10,12 etc. outboard. My theory is the slightly thicker panel inboard creates more lift.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2013, 08:18:35 PM »
Robert,  you got lonnngggg bolts.   D>K
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2013, 08:32:09 PM »
Robert,  you got lonnngggg bolts.   D>K

Ace hardware sells all thread
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2013, 06:48:11 AM »
I hadn't thought of that but has merit.  Not going to get much done today or tomorrow .  Long work hours and will welcome a new grandchild into the world on Monday. (#3, a boy).  Might squeeze a little shop time later tonight.  I bought a couple new glues to try so I 'll share the info.  Ordered wood for about two more airplanes so I 'll be busy!
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2013, 07:36:28 AM »
Stole away a couple minutes to sand the first stack down.  Notice I marked center lines on both ends.  These will allow me to extend centers on each rib which I'll use for alignment as I assemble the structure in the wing jig.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2013, 08:04:09 PM »
Having shaped the stack now I unbolt them.  Some have mentioned the sanding taper.  This is how I get rid of it.  Slide all the ribs nose down on the table-flush front.  Put the template back on with tape,  sliding them back just far enough to expose the taper on front and sides.  Now simply sand it off flush with the templates and no more taper!
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2013, 08:11:09 PM »
Now the spar slots.......
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2013, 08:19:11 PM »
And I number them right away lest I screw up and mix them up.  Next I'll draw center lines , open and cut whatever spar slots and openings and lightening holes wanted.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2013, 08:32:50 PM »
OK I'll close tonight with something to think about.  The pic below shows two full stacks of ribs for 60" wings and aren't exactly the same but very close.  One stack has yet to have any lightening holes cut,  the other set has all the normal cut openings.  What's the difference in weight?  .2 ounces!  I've found issues lately with crushed ribs in a couple wings caused simply by tight silk span and dope.  Flying would have to cause more damage with flimsy ribs.  You'll see on this one I'm doing very little lightening of the ribs.  The whole set complete without holes is under 1 oz.   I'm keeping the strength with very very little added weight.  Has to help keep the wing straight too.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2013, 07:43:41 PM »
Short night tonight,  just a frame  or two.  I'm showing a plywood guide I made to mark the spar opening very accurately .  This is faster than anything else I know.  I only saw cut the start point with the templates on.  My spars are laminated and vary in thickness at differing stations. That makes it impossible for me to completely saw cut the slots in a stack.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2013, 08:05:43 PM »
I've laid out the plans and placed the ribs in their respective spots.  I can then lay down a straight edge and mark the approximate lead out location on each rib so I can cut the hole accordingly.  These will be slotted to allow lead out adjustment fore and aft.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 03:35:25 PM »
The next couple days will be about building the wing jig.  Here is a place where I wonder far off the prevalent reservation.  Why?  First it's what I'm accustomed to and because I think I retain the best control over the trueness of the finished wing this way.  There are other good methods-  this is mine.  It's sort of a truss system so I start with cutting truss pieces.  It will develop so be patient.  The first thing is router ripping the leading edge truss material from medium 1/4 balsa.
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Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 03:37:52 PM »
Next I take that perfectly sized strip of lumber and cross cut into separate parts to be glued on the wing board.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 03:58:57 PM »
Seems you're humming right along.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2013, 04:53:19 PM »
Randy I'm trying.  Next shot shows the Stunk Works wing board.  On the rear is a 60" aluminum rule screwed to the board. Then I've screwed a piece of 1/4" balsa to that at the right height off the board.  This gives me a perfectly straight vertical wall to which I can pin the trailing edge to.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2013, 04:56:39 PM »
This opening in the wall and the four alignment blocks are for the take-apart version as the wing and fuse have to be built together.  These are not use for the one piece airplane.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2013, 06:08:02 PM »
Glueing on the leading edge trusses at the right spots and checking to get them vertical.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2013, 06:12:20 PM »
A pleasant visit,  grandson Dylan and his dad Kevin came for din and shop time.  Dylan hold his new Ringmaster Jr.  w/ Brodak .15.  Will fly it in basic event at Topeka Memorial Sunday.

By the by;  that IS his AMA number.  It was my dad's number (his great grandfather). AMA was so kind as to give it to Dylan upon my request.  Maybe when Dylan has kids.......
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 06:34:19 PM by Dave_Trible »
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2013, 06:55:54 PM »
The wing jig is now ready for biniss'.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2013, 07:07:11 PM »
Not sure you can see the pencil marks but I previously laid the leading and trailing edges on the wing plan and marked exact rib locations.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2013, 07:47:59 PM »
Assembly begins.  The trailing edge is nailed down atop the rear wall. The leading edges are pinned on their forward trusses and root- tip ribs are pinned in.  It's now a matter of pinning in all the remaining ribs but NOTHING is glued yet.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2013, 08:32:16 AM »
Almost forgot.  These are 1/16 ply rib doublers for the landing gear ribs 3  and 4.  I didn't use these on the first couple of Desperados which may help explain the damage to the first one.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2013, 08:42:16 AM »
A different approach to wing construction.   Your grandson looks great with his plane.   Also your Dad would be proud of you.  He is still missed by me.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2013, 08:55:46 AM »
A different approach to wing construction.   Your grandson looks great with his plane.   Also your Dad would be proud of you.  He is still missed by me.
Thank you John.  You were always one of his favorites.  We all miss him.  He'd get a kick out of Dylan.  Attaching a photo I have in my living room.  This is dad with his Korda wakefield on the Kansas prairie in summer 1941.  Four years later he would sit in Bad Orb concentration camp after being captured in the Battle of the Bulge.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2013, 09:40:08 AM »
OK now a very critical step.  All the ribs are pinned in. I'm going to check for any twists in the wing and shim under the leading edge to true it up.  Notice the Robart incidence meter sitting on the motor mount stock.  I'll check every other bay.  You will see the meter a bunch here.  I use it everywhere because it never lies to me.  Won't build without it.  Only when I'm sure it's all straight do I glue.  Then I walk away overnight and let it cure.  Spars will be put in tomorrow.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2013, 10:34:04 AM »
Interesting methodology.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2013, 05:52:27 PM »
Back in the shop finally.  Tonight I'll start by laminating the wing spars.  Anticipating a question about why I use tapered laminated spars,  I'll tell you I've done this going back to Music in the 80's.  It had to do with trying to get the most strength where it was wanted but pare off whatever unneeded weight I could.  I long ago forgot the equations and parted with my engineering manuals (and it doesn't matter) but I was considering span loading.  The types here are supported and unsupported spans.  Our planes are sort of both.  In the air the wings are not resting on static points or a fulcrum so it would be called unsupported.  BUT to a greater or lesser degree it IS supported along the span on a blanket of air pressure.  From an engineering standpoint there are  separate formula for both to figure structure requirements.  Since I try to think worst case scenario I consider the airplane in a hard bottom corner at 10 Gs.  Not sure how good that number is but it's been used as a basis for our discussions for years.   That would then equate to resting your 65 ounce airplane between two chairs on the wing tips or last rib then applying 40 lbs on the fuselage!  WOW!  What is obvious is that the highest stress is right in the center, tapering to zero at the extreme tip.  (Remember that airborne those tips have no pressure point- no chairs). So to put spar requirements in line with where loads are imposed one would beef it in the center and taper it to zilch at the tips where next to nothing is needed. Common structure here might be 1/4 square spars.  Given our criteria I'd think 1/4 sq. is two light in the center for, say 5000 load flexes before failure and surely too heavy at the tips.  So my spars taper in steps along the span in the horizontal ( constant vertical) from 3/8" square at the root to 1/8"x 3/8" at the tip.  It's always worked so I continue the practice without further thought.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 07:56:15 PM by Dave_Trible »
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2013, 06:12:17 PM »
I've gathered the stuff I need and will work on a 'pin able'  board topped with waxed paper.  I've precut a stack of very straight 4-6# balsa strips 1/8" x 3/8".  I'll super glue (ca) these together layed along a straight edge.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2013, 06:31:11 PM »
Here I've put down the full span 30" lams then glued on the front 20" lams.  I'll turn these over and put the third 10" and last lam on the back side.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2013, 07:07:04 PM »
Spars in and glued.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2013, 07:13:52 PM »
Trying some new glues here thinking Sigment replacement.  Up till now I've used the Beacon 527.  It seems exactly like Sigment.  I'm using the new Quick Grip by the same company on the spars. It looks and smells the same but shows a little foaming like Gorilla brown glue.  The Loctite GO2 glue acts like the Quick Grip but has a different odor.  I'll follow up my thoughts on these.
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Re: Build threads look fun
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2013, 07:38:14 PM »
I use an upper and lower bellcrank platforms which double as spar doublers in the center.  These are 1/8" hard ply- never lite ply!!!!
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