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Author Topic: Brodak Zero, well sorta...  (Read 4362 times)

Offline wwwarbird

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Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« on: January 24, 2011, 03:40:59 PM »
 I'm currently applying the final clearcoats on what started here as a Brodak Zero. I thought I'd show some info on all of the build modifications I did to it. None of this would have been required, I just wanted to try and update some things and also end up with a more scale overall look when the model was finished.
 
The only original Brodak kit parts left in this model are the wing ribs and the fuselage stock. We are all "spoiled" these days with laser cut kits, but that's a good thing. This was a pre laser cut kit, so early on an evening was spent just sanding and shaping the wing ribs to have them all line up better. Even with that I still ended up shimming the L/E airfoil outline in a few places for the ribs to reach the L/E sheeting. I swapped from balsa to spruce spars, and added main spar and T/E shear webbing tip to tip. I didn't care for the kit wingtip shape or design, so they were scrapped and I built new ones to my own preference. With the new tips it now spans 51" where the kit was 48". I also built new flaps with 1/2" more chord along the entire span, giving some more wing area and control. Hiding inside is a Brodak 4" bellcrank on a new platform. Pushrods from Control Line Central will be carbon fiber with titanium ends and Du-Bro 4-40 ball links. The last detail on the wing after covering with Polyspan was adding a 6" wide carbon veil around the entire center section. In the end I'm really happy with the wing.
 
 On the fuselage I decided I wanted to do it as built-up profile, instead of the solid design per the kit. I also felt the profile outline was too long and skinny, just didn't look "right" to me. First, I added a 1/2" wide by 1/4" tall "stringer" to the top and bottom of the fuselage to make the outline taller. On the top, I ran it from the rear of the canopy to the tail. On the bottom, I ran it from about the L/E of the wing cutout to the tail. Doing this also helped stiffen the fuse. I should also mention that I extended the fuse stock a bit before doing this. With that I added 1" to the tail moment. I also added material to the top and bottom of the nose so that I could cut a new outline later. After all of that, I cut out the center to make way for new internal truss work using 1/2" wide by 1/8" stock. Next was making new longer motor mounts, 1/8" five-ply nose doublers, and a 1/2" thick tripler. I tapered the fuse from the wing T/E to the tail before sheeting it with 1/8" balsa. That sheeting butts up to the plywood nose doublers for a 3/4" wide overall fuse. Once I got the fuse built and sanded to my liking, I added carbon veil to it as well. Last with the fuse was making a height adjustable fuel tank mount.

 The tail surfaces are all new with a bit larger area to them. The overall stab span is 2" longer than stock. All of the surfaces were built up with 1/8" balsa. After tapering the elevators and rudder framework, everything was sheeted with 1/16" balsa. After that all of the surfaces were cut out to a more accurate scale outline. I also scratchbuilt and added flap and elevator "fairings" to go where the control surfaces blend to the fuse. To me, this was a detail that really helps add a more scale look.

 I also bent up new 5/32" landing gear and made new L/G doors. The tailweel wire is new too.

 The entire model is covered with medium silkspan except for the Polyspan portion of the wing. The carbon veil is over the silkspan and Polyspan. The finish will be all Brodak dope and there is more info about that in the Painting and Finishing section here on the forum. When I get it all done and reassembled, I'll have a finished report in the Open Forum...

 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 10:26:28 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 03:46:08 PM »
 Fuse details...
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 03:49:31 PM »
 Tail surfaces and fairings...
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 04:10:11 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 03:52:16 PM »
 Flap fairings...
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 03:54:49 PM »
 Figuring out the desired landing gear height...
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 04:12:29 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 03:58:06 PM »
 Creeping up on finishing time...
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Bill Hummel

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 04:53:33 PM »
Hi, Wayne, really nice project!  Good techniques shown, should be a super flyer!  Question about the
carbon fiber mat: do you prefer using dope or epoxy resin to apply?  Thanks...
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Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2011, 04:55:26 PM »
Nice work mate, and a good clean workshop too!

I have learned a bit just looking at the pics, thanks.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2011, 05:36:19 PM »
Very nice technique Wayne. Very clean construction. Good fits.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 09:52:54 PM »
 Bill,

 I use dope for putting down the carbon fiber. It's way too easy to add uneccessary weight with any epoxy, so I try to only use it in structure areas that require the added strength.

 I've only started playing with carbon fiber (c/f) mat in my last few builds. Here's what I do though. With the surface already silkspanned or whatever, it already has a good base coat of clear on it. Sand everything nice and smooth in preparation. Right before applying the c/f I'll put down a heavy wet coat of clear, and then apply the c/f right away while the clear is still wet. As soon as the c/f is in place, I immediately brush more clear onto and through it to get it all down real good. After it's dry, give it a day, I really like the way c/f sands out. I'll typically use 220 or some slightly worn 180 at that stage. From that point just continue your finishing process like you normally would.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 02:30:23 PM »
Nice new design, Wayne! ;D  Very nice construction, also.

Big Bear
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 04:38:02 PM »
GREAT job Wayne!  I like your list of mods and your technique is excellent.
Denny Adamisin
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Offline Leester

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2011, 06:44:44 PM »
Looks great Wayne !! can't wait to see it finished.

Just think what you could do to a Grumman Guardian  LL~ LL~ VD~ VD~
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2011, 10:19:12 PM »
Looks great Wayne !! can't wait to see it finished.

Just think what you could do to a Grumman Guardian  LL~ LL~ VD~ VD~

 That's not playing fair Lee! n1 ;D :##

 Thanks for the comments guys. H^^
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2011, 11:46:42 AM »
Hi Wayne,

You are really living up to your screen name!

I am working on a "prototype" of a P-47 razor back for the original Brodak modified Nobler wing Warbird series.  It is not so far along that I can't use some of your mods in it and still be close enough to the old kits to make production not a problem.  So if I "steal" some of your ideas, I will give appropriate "props" to you. ;D

Simply curious, any particular reason to go to the 5/32nd" gear wire?

And will you please give us a *finished weight* of the airframe (minus engine/tank)?

Thanks!
Bill
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2011, 06:16:02 PM »
 Sounds good Bill, use whatever ideas you wish, heck, I just "figger it out" as I go. And yeah, back when I first joined the forums I chose "Warbird" for a reason, I'm severely addicted to them, to me they are the REAL airplanes. ;D

 I went to the 5/32" gear sort of in hindsight. First, I scrapped the kit landing gear blocks because the wood was c--p. I replaced them with the full length Sig 1/8" landing gear blocks, they're like 5 or 6 inches long or something. With the 1/8" wire reaching that far to get to the torsion block, I just wasn't happy with how flimsy the gear seemed when the plane was all assembled. We fly on grass around here so I like a nice sturdy gear that I don't have to keep bending back into shape. Plus, I was planning on putting on gear doors and a sturdy gear really helps them out too. Anyway, because of all that I routed the blocks out a little bit more to fit 5/32" wire and went with that. It's way better now, and the weight difference is negligible as far as I'm concerned.
 In the future I might use 1/8", but with shorter blocks requiring a shorter arm.

 I'll have it all done within the next few days and put a big blurb in the Open Forum with all the final details. y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2011, 08:01:27 PM »
Thanks, Wayne! 

(replied to your PM, thanks!)

The prototype was a great flying plane, and some have told me I flew it better than anything else I've owned! LOL!! (well no matter how well I flew it, I can only do so good)

I got heavily into Japanese WWII fighters when I was doing IPMS stuff in the early '70s mainly because no one else built them.  A Tony and a Frank are ones (especially the Tony) that I want to have a profile of.  I built Frank Warburton's Tony in 1971 (after having the magazine since 1964) and still have the twisted remains.  The covering came off in areas and the wing really twisted up over the years from being stored in the attic of two different houses! LOL!!  I have seriously considered doing another and just make it profile.  Maybe I can get the wing parts from Eric since he makes the kit. 

Maybe a Jack and a Claude, too?   Of course a twin engined profile Betty would be the bomb!.......... gezz......I'll never live long enough! LOL!!

Big Bear
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2011, 10:50:02 PM »
And will you please give us a *finished weight* of the airframe (minus engine/tank)?

Thanks!
Bill

 Well, the Zero is DONE. o2oP

 I always keep weight in mind, but I've never claimed to be a light builder. With our home field being grass, and myself being basically just a fun and sport flier, I typically lean toward building on the sturdier side whenever it's in question. I've never had an in flight structural failure yet. ;D
 
 With that said, the "all up" finished weight of the Zero after paint with everything installed except the engine, muffler and fuel tank is 37.7 ounces. That weight also includes all controls, adjustable fuel tank mount and aluminum engine mount pads. As a sidenote, 1.06 ounces of that total is the final clearcoats.
 
The complete RTF weight with engine and mounting hardware, stock Brodak .40 muffler, 4-1/2 ounce fuel tank, fuel line and filter, Tornado 10x6 3 blader and custom aluminum spinner nut is 51.3 ounces.

 After it finishes gassing off it should drop 5 to 7 ounces right? ;D :##

 

 
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline proparc

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2011, 02:12:37 PM »
This is first class kit building. H^^ When I see work like this, I sincerely hope they never end the builder of the model rule.
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2011, 08:53:06 PM »
This is first class kit building. H^^ When I see work like this, I sincerely hope they never end the builder of the model rule.

 Thank you. I'd like a lot of it to be a lot better, but I've got what I've got. ;D

 For the finished pics check out "Jeff's Brodak Zero" on the Open Forum. y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline t michael jennings

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2011, 06:43:32 PM »
Mr. Willey,

Studying photo #004 showing the ribs.  The ribs seemed to be spaced wider than normal 2.0 to 2.2 inches apart.

Many builders believe 2.0 is about the maximum spacing for adequate strength of the wing.

What is the spacing of the rigs.

Thanks,

T Michael Jennings             ???
Knoxville, TN.



Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2011, 08:48:54 PM »
 They are spaced at 2-5/8" as shown on the kit plans, kind of an odd number, but one of the few things I didn't change.

 Overall span on my finished version is 51"
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 10:13:40 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Brodak Zero, well sorta...
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2011, 09:46:32 AM »
The sheeting on the leading edge makes up for the loss of one rib. LL~ LL~ Go look at the spacing on a SkyRay .35 main ribs.   H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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