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Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: nathan Metzner on July 01, 2012, 04:31:35 PM
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I am building a Brodak Flight Streak and I'm getting down to the last sections. So far the kit has been great, much better than the sterling kit I have been fooling with for years. The only issue I have had is the inner ribs ren't cut correctly. They are suppose to be 1/8" smaller than the outer ribs to allow for sheeting; however, the taper or trailing edge of them is too tall and the section for the triling edge is too long. With a little sanding this has been corrected. Another issue is that the bellcrank platform does not sit level in the wing. This is due to the inner ribs being incorrect and the support wood being to low. I shimmed the support rod and epoxied it ll together. I t is a real pleasure working with laser cut kits I do not think I'll ever go back. I'll post a picture tonight or tomorrow.
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As one who has produced plans and cutting sheets for John Brodak, I'm surprised that there is a problem—especially one that has not been widely discussed.
Contct John and seek his assistance. John usually builds a prototype of every kit that he offers before he runs production quantities and releases the model to the market.
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As Geoff says, why not go to Brodak with the complaints. I did with the Tomahawk kit that was supposed to be the early version. Week later had the correct kit. Paid for the new version anyway as I wanted them both. H^^
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I have built the pre laser cut Brodak Flitestreak and Jr. Flitestreak and did not find any issues.
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Don't get me wrong I am not complaining, I love the kit. It is so easy to build that it seems like cheating. I was just mentioning this one little idiosyncrasy. I can't wait to get it done. Jim, maybe I have a different cutting of the kit or something? I have no idea. I do wish there was a little more fudge room on the leading and trailing edges. My plans didn't quite match the spar, the plans mentioned this but it made it a little quirky getting the trailing edge right. Overall this is the finest kit I have worked with and would highly recommend it to anyone.
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How do you put adjustable leadouts on a plane with a spar running between the lead out wires? The adjustable guide I bought has the line spacing set to about 1" this would be almost useless with the spar in between the leadout wires. m I better off just going with the plan and using fixed leadouts? If so, does anyone know of a set deviation from the plan that works better than the stock loction?
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Draw on the plans the extremes of where you think your lines might go, then cut the spar and ribs so that the lines will clear. Install your controls and move the leadout guide back and forth, then trim where you did not get it exactly right. HB~>
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Jim, LOL I looked at tht and I would have to do some serious surgery to get this one piece adjuster too work. The ribs in this kit are thinner than I would like to be cutting that much. I think the seperate adjusters re the hot ticket and I only have a single. The plans have the fore leadout cable within .5" from the spar so I can't see bothering with it this time. I'm probably just gonna rock with the solid guides. Next build I'll know what to expect.
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Is 1 oz. of tip weight what you guys recommend? The plan calls for it.
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Put a wieght box in and that will probably be enough. In the old days we started with 3/4 ounce and added to it if needed. H^^
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Nathan, I say go ahead and build it per the plans. MANY have been done that way over the years and have flown very well. Just make sure things are straight and aligned well. You will enjoy it! (it was my son's first "big" model and we still have it)
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Is the Brodak, Flite Streak, the same as the original kit?
Charles
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Two piece leading edge, instead of the Top Flite hollowed out solid wood. I read somewhere that George actually built the original leading edge the way the Brodak kit is built. Same dagger front ribs, a built up trailing edge instead of solid wood. I prefer the Brodak Streak. Conventional leading edge. Those dagger front ribs never seem to mate perfectly with the hollowed out leading edges in the Brodak or Top Flite version. Perhaps the laser cutting has solved the issue. Streaks are versatile and fly great.
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As Dennis said. The Brodak kit is suppose to be exactly as GA designed it. I am building it pretty much stock with few changes. The rib points do fit much better except the inner ribs are a little funky.
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I fit the wing to the fuse. Pulled it out and am in the process of polying the fuse right now. Hopefully by weeks end she will be together and waiting till I'm satisfied with the cure time for the poly.
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If you put the poly-span down with dope, it will not take long to finish/glue. Now where are the pics? H^^
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What engine are most guys using in the Flite Streak?
I was going to use a .25, but I thought I might use my old Fox .35 or the Johnson .35.
Thats what we had in them back then. ;D
Charles
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LA25s or FP25s make for a docile stunt trainer. If you run a wet 2-stroke. Guess if you needle it in you'll get more speed. Streaks are versatile. Work well flown at moderate speed. Or. As in days passed. Power it up with a Fox Combat special. On bladder. The most spectacular Flite Streak I know, an original Top Flight kit done in silk (I think), belongs to Ken and Shawn Cook. A Mark 3 Fox on35% nitro. I always stop and look when they put it up. Fabulous. Nostalgia that shakes teeth.
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OK.
So I could practice the pattern with a Flite Streak and a .25?
Charles
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Charles, I am using an old, old, old OS .25 on this one. I am going to build spare plane using an OS .20 FP these are suppose to be great on a streak.
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From what I have been told an LA .25 is just fine for stunt practicing with the streak. An FP .25 may prove a little difficult to keep tame.
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Pictures Finally. I still have a few more sanding coats of poly left to apply to the fuse.
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Looking real good!!
Everything is placed! Sweet!
"Poly?" Did you say "poly."
Certainly not Polly wants a cracker. Must be Polyester? Did I get it right?
Are you using Polyester resin?
Charles
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Looking real good!!
Everything is placed! Sweet!
"Poly?" Did you say "poly."
Certainly not Polly wants a cracker. Must be Polyester? Did I get it right?
Are you using Polyester resin?
Charles
I really believe he is referring to Min Wax Polycrylic......... many use it to fill raw balsa.
Bill
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Thanks Guys, I have made a few little modifictions such as small braces from the elevator to the fuse and a different tail skid and I squared off the top of the canopy. I am using minwax polyurethane for the fuse and an inch of the center sheeting on either side of the fuse. I'm gonna iron some "mess" on the wings and get to the air :-) I have used this method before and it works like a champ. the first coat or two soaks into the wood and helps fill. These get mostly sanded off then it gets one coat and I'll stripe it then one more top coat and it's done. This has been very fuel proof for me.
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Nathan,
Will you use the pushrod wire that came with the kit?
Or will you opt for a higher tech.
Charles
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I still use just a plain music wire pushrod on flapless stunt planes. As long as you use a fairlead about 1/2 way from bell crank to elevator horn to prevent flexing, you are good to go. ;D
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Charles, What bill said lol. I am going to use the wire; however, I will not split mine. I get real detail oriented and bend it. I am going to use a brace in between the bell crank and the control horn. I shy away from the real high tech stuff cause I'm not tlented enough to make proper use of it. Milllion dollar airplane and ten cents worth of skill. I'll be keeping this one as simple as I can.
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Charles, What bill said lol. I am going to use the wire; however, I will not split mine. I get real detail oriented and bend it. I am going to use a brace in between the bell crank and the control horn. I shy away from the real high tech stuff cause I'm not tlented enough to make proper use of it. Milllion dollar airplane and ten cents worth of skill. I'll be keeping this one as simple as I can.
Nathan,
That's what I was going to do. I didn't want to bother with other stuff, I have one right in the box.
A while back Bill suggested an LA .25. I'll use that.
How are you going to finish yours?
Charles
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I'm finishing the fuse with polyurethane and covering the wings with monocote. I'm using sky blue and tan. Nothing too fancy but it'll look nice till I crash it lol. The clear poly gives the fuse a neat look almost like oak.
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I'm finishing the fuse with polyurethane and covering the wings with monocote. I'm using sky blue and tan. Nothing too fancy but it'll look nice till I crash it lol. The clear poly gives the fuse a neat look almost like oak.
Nathan,
That's the oil base Miniwax you're using, not the water base? Could stain the wood. I mentioned that.
Charles
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Yeah It's oil based. We have several cans of it. I m using a spar polyurethane on this one. The can is a little old so it's pretty dark compared to a new can. The poly yellows with age. Right now it has golden honey type of color and to me it looks great.
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How do you put adjustable leadouts on a plane with a spar running between the lead out wires? The adjustable guide I bought has the line spacing set to about 1" this would be almost useless with the spar in between the leadout wires. m I better off just going with the plan and using fixed leadouts? If so, does anyone know of a set deviation from the plan that works better than the stock location?
You have hit upon on the major problem of moving the leadouts on any small model. The weakening of the wing to create the clearance for the leadouts. The top & bottom are cut apart except for the LE & TE.
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One of the things about teaching new people when building from kits . Follow the instructions. Brodak, SIG and a few others have very good instruction manuals. I built the Brodak Original Magician box stock as I could. If I can only get it back from my grandson. Guess I will have to break down and build Walters version of the Original Magician. H^^
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Nathan,
Are you increasing the size of the elevator or keeping it as from the kit.
I was going to increase mine seeing I have no flaps. Maybe I'll add flaps?
Charles
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I'm keeping the elevator the same. If this plane is blanced properly it will turn on a dime. I don't know if I would add movable flaps to this irframe unless you wanna try your hand at combat flying lol. The Fuse is so short compare to the wing span added to the lighter engines that we now use and this thing will turn, at least thats what I am told.
I bought the adjustable leadouts that were recommended from brodak; the brodak plans also come with an instruction sheet for aadjustable leadouts; however, the instruction sheet is based on a plane without a solid spar and the ribs were hollow. If I had it to do over again, which I do y1, I will buy the seperate line adjustable rather than the set line spaced one. I also would have made thicker ribs s the ones suplied re not thick enough to support being hollowed out. So for now sticking with the basic plan except very minor changes.
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Doc has it right - build it per plans and have fun. Sometimes we over-analyze and overbuild what at heart should be a simple sport/combat/stunt plane. Learn from this build and save all the tricky stuff for a full-on stunter. 8)
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That's the idea Pete. I have flown the wings off of junior sized planes and a ton of 1/2a's. I can't wait to get into the ring with 60' lines. I hve flown some bigger planes but they were not my own so I haven't really "flown" them yet.
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That's the idea Pete. I have flown the wings off of junior sized planes and a ton of 1/2a's. I can't wait to get into the ring with 60' lines. I hve flown some bigger planes but they were not my own so I haven't really "flown" them yet.
Nathan,
OK, so you will not have adjustable leadouts? Weight box? What are your minor changes?
This will be my third Flite Streak. My second hit a silo, had little time on it. It did have flaps and a shortened tail, you're right, the thing turned on a dime with a Fox .35. I had a Johnson .35 on my first FS.
I'm close to covering mine. There's a decision I wish I didn't have to make.
More Photos!
Charles
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Na no adjustable leadouts on this one. I followed the plans pretty much on except I braced the elevator on either side of the fuse with a 1/4 triangle stock. I also made my own tailskid, I didn't like the little round one and I squared off the top of the canopy. I epoxyed in 1 oz. of stick on wheel weights to the outbourd rib. I split the difference of the weight between my spar. I also matched the angle of the leadouts with the angle of my leadout supports. The plans had them pretty much straight. I'm also adding a piece of nylon bushing through the fuse to support the control wire brace. My brace will go all the way through but will tighten up on the nylon bushing rather than the balsa. I also added a little rake to the gear, the plans had it straight up and I wnted a little more than that to keep it from folding back. Other than that she is a stock FS.
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Na no adjustable leadouts on this one. I followed the plans pretty much on except I braced the elevator on either side of the fuse with a 1/4 triangle stock. I also made my own tailskid, I didn't like the little round one and I squared off the top of the canopy. I epoxyed in 1 oz. of stick on wheel weights to the outbourd rib. I split the difference of the weight between my spar. I also matched the angle of the leadouts with the angle of my leadout supports. The plans had them pretty much straight. I'm also adding a piece of nylon bushing through the fuse to support the control wire brace. My brace will go all the way through but will tighten up on the nylon bushing rather than the balsa. I also added a little rake to the gear, the plans had it straight up and I wnted a little more than that to keep it from folding back. Other than that she is a stock FS.
Nathan,
I just noticed, 86 posts! Where the hell have you been? I hope to see more of yourself and your models.
It's because of your Flite Streak build that I'm building mine again. Honestly. I took the model off the shelf just last night, to finish it up! Believe me it's true.
Look at what I was doing. I had The New American and The International builds, Plus I was working on my Corsair.
I started my FS months ago and lost interest in it. I do that. n~
You don't think Modelers inspire? Well, you'd be wrong. Your Build, photos and response to all questions, what a guy! Thank you so much!!
Mine's almost ready to cover.
No adjustable leadouts, no weight box. Simple Brodak bellcrank. I like your idea of the brace on the tail feathers. I'll do that also. Sharing, see how sharing works!
I added 1/16" x 1/8" laminations to the wingtips, top and bottom. More material for my covering to stick to.
That's a good idea with your nylon brace. A hard spot. I'll sink in a dowel with a "T" nut and use nylon also, I have something someplace bent at 90 degrees.
I'm guessing you trimmed the ribs for bellcrank and wire movement?
I'll locate both leadouts close to each other, probably a half inch apart and a half or five eights behind the CG. Bellcrank is almost on the CG. I'm fine with it's location on the plans.
OK, C O L O R
Got any plans for that yet!?
I'm excited, When I put this model away, I didn't think I would ever finish it.
Thanks again,
Charles
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Thanks Charles, It's awesome to get good feedback. I have the fuse almost done. I still have to clear the canopy and I need to go over my stripe a time or two more. My wings will be Sky Blue and Beige.
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I looked at your builds Charles, you build some fine equipment. I like your idea of a thicker wing tip for covering, thats genious. I did some trimming to the ribs for clearance but not much. I kept my leadouts close to the plans but mine are a little closer and my forward is a little back. The amount of trimming necessary was minimal.
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I looked at your builds Charles, you build some fine equipment. I like your idea of a thicker wing tip for covering, thats genious. I did some trimming to the ribs for clearance but not much. I kept my leadouts close to the plans but mine are a little closer and my forward is a little back. The amount of trimming necessary was minimal.
Nathan,
Thanks for taking the peak, "YOU AIN"T SEEN NOTHIN YET!!" n~
You won't believe what I have on the board. ;D
I might tell you if you can you keep secrets?
What did you use for hinges? I have no material for that. Trip to the HS and they won't have any.
If I had iron on stuff around I would use it. I have to perfect silking, and I'm new to it. Would be best to have some meat for the silk to stick, that's why I did the tips. Added strength also. Yes, I know it's genius. LL~
How was your wood? Unfortunately my TE is bowed. So is my LE. In different directions. I'm toying with the idea of taking them out. I probably won't.
I like your skid, I'll use a length of wire.
Your fuse looks great! I'll bet it's lighter than the one I have, which is direct from a TF kit. I can deal with weight, I just care about looks. I see your brace, that's genius! I'll copy that also.
I moved my leadouts close to each other. Always did it that way, one over one under. I use brass always did that too.
I like your beige and sky blue idea, kinda like the late 30's or 40's. Popular colors then.
I might steal your beige. Is that OK? I only have dark blue silk, which I never ordered.
I have to find an accent color that works with dark blue silk and beige. I can do that on the MAC.
Did you use the wire gear from the kit? I can't find mine. Enough prop clearance with it? Wing tip skids?
That piece of furniture, nice BTW, your using it for a cradle, that's genius! Some of our furniture is old but nothing I could use like that. Bummer!
How far along will you get tonight?
Charles
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I doubt I'll get much farther on it, the poly takes while to cure. I may finish polying the canopy once it dries though. You are more than welcome to use the beige, I like color combos like that. I used the fabric hinges glued in with testors quick dry, I did them first with CA and didn't like it so I redid them and the CA left the wood a little lighter because it won't soke up the poly. My kitwa from brodak with two piece leading and trailing edges they were dead nuts straight, or pretty close to it. Yeah I used the wire that came with it I just leaned it back a touch. No tip skid needed with the monokote, for silk you may need a little something. Prop clearance is cool I'm running a 9" and the plane was designed for a 10". Beige, Dark Blue, hot frikin pink accents.
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Nathan,
Hey! Bring us up to sate!
Your Poly cure yet? That stuff dries fuel proof?
I may add flaps to me FS. I had them on the one that hit the silo.
I'm using CA hinges. Never used them before, maybe I should buy cloth material from a supplier.
Any new photos?
I almost forgot! I found two cans of a real pale yellow, almost beige but not quite. I need accent!
Charles
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OOOps I just posted an accidental pic anyway so... lol.... I've started covering. The control horn is mounted, I chose to install my control wire into the second from the bottom hole. The brodak horn has four positions. I've got about 30 degrees movement on my elevator which I am fine with to start. The control wire brace was a sinch, I used a nylon spacer and drilled a hole all the way through the fuse and epoxied the spacer in there.
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Nathan,
Great start! looks like paint!
Charles
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Thanks it's come out alright so far. I still haven't done the other side, maybe later tonight or tomorrow sometime. I'm getting close. I'll get some good pictures when it's done. How's yours coming along?
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Thanks it's come out alright so far. I still haven't done the other side, maybe later tonight or tomorrow sometime. I'm getting close. I'll get some good pictures when it's done. How's yours coming along?
Nathan,
Looks like paint, tastes like chicken! n~
I'm sure hundreds of Flite Streaks have been built and posted as Build Threads but that doesn't matter, this is still your first Flite Streak build!
I'm glad you're excited about it. Don't loose that enthusiasm.
My FS is gaining weight, I just added half ribs to help keep the bow out. Staying straight so far or straighter than it was. Pool bleach is great stuff, only off an 1/8" now tip to tip.
I'm ordering cloth hing material from Brodak today and maybe a weight box. My luck the box will get filled and I'll have to strap weight on. Maybe two boxes?
Hey! Photos tomorrow of your Flite Streak progress?
Charles
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Boy I hope you don't lose alot of the Flite Streak coolness due to weight. The TF models were heavy to begin with, now adding half ribs n~. I like cloth hinges, some are against them but I am not; however, I did have a set fail on me due to CA in the joints. Anyway made some serious headway today. She's all covered, the control rod brace is adjusted, the poly is applied, gear installed, heck its just easier to say what is left. I have to mount the fuel tank and I'm gonna weight on some parts that a very, very, very kind member is sending me for my engine. After that she'll be balanced and out to the field. Nevermind the dishes I'll get to them in a minute LOL.
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Nathan,
Congratulations!
No, not for the model. Two, TWO! pages! Your build is now on it's second page! What an accomplishment!
Your Flite Streak looks really good! Great job with the covering. The tan, ( Monokote also?) looks great with it, not a bad choice.
I gotta tell ya, I like the clear wood allot. I might copy that too, Do you mind?
Is that an R/C carb? I guess you're working on that?
I'll PM you.
Charles
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Yeah thats an R/C carb. I've used one before on similiar .15 os. Trostle is hooking me up with a venturi and NVA for it. Steal away manno I love to get new ideas on forums, thats one of the drawing points to a forum, stealing other peoples ideas LOL. Yeah two pages who'd a thunk it, and all that for a simple ol' flitestreak.
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Hey, that Flite Streak is looking great. Should fly just as well as it looks. Would build another one, but want to build my own Ringmaster for October. Remember to balance slightly nose heavy for first flights. Of all the Flite Streaks I built, flown with McCoy .34 Redhead or the K&B .35 Greenhead were never checked for balance and flew great for me at the time. Let us know how she flies and don't bruise the grass with it. H^^
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Thanks John, She balances just about right on the mark. My safety margin is I put the control wire in the second to the bottom hole which only gives me about 30 degrees up or down on the elevator. I have been told that FS's can be twitchy and with an adjustable handle and a slow moving elevator I am hoping to calm it down bit; however, the plane I am use to flying was a seriously twitchy bird and I miss it. Perhaps I will rebuild it someday. It was designed by some dutch boating company, real strange design but it worked great unfortunatley I had a wheel washer come unsoldered and it turned in then went out and snatched an untethered handle out of my hand and well its in pieces lol. I have already started on my second FS last night. I have the fever lol. I'll post pictures here in a bit.
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After reading many a thread about newer flyers needing a backup airplane and after not flying for a month cause my stuff was broke I have decided to build a spare Flight Streak. I started last night and am working out of a Tower Hobbies big-box-of-balsa. There are some do-dads I will have to order but I am going to try and keep this as inexpensive as I can get. I have plenty of music wire so my leadouts will probably be solid instead of stranded wire. I may or may not use the adjustable leadouts that I bought for the first one. I have been thinking about this and have a question: Can I use hard leadouts with an adjustable leadout guide? If so then that is the route I am going to take. I epoxied two pieces of 1/4" together to make the fuse last night. The canopy will be made out of 1/2" stock. I started marking my ribs using the closet thing to 1/8" that I had, it must be metric because it measured .070. If I use the adjustable leadouts I'll make my last three ribs out of 3/32.
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Nathan,
TWO FLITE STREAKS!!
You win! I cannot keep up with that, this Flite Streak is it. n~
I was thinking about covering and your use of an iron on material. I may consider it and keep my blue silk for my biplane pusher.
Two Flite Streaks, gotta love it! ;D
Nathan, could you measure your gear wire bend to bend? I don't have one?
Thanks,
Charles
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Thanks. I have some more projects in line after I get this one done. Sometimes the easiest possible way to get something done is the right way, not always but sometimes, plastic iron on can be acceptable even for a master model builder such as yourself. The gear is 1/8" going from the fuse down the first bend is 3/8" and is a 90 degree the secon bend is ninety degrees from the first one and 3/4" from the top of the wire to the inside bend mark. The bend is 30 degrees. I hope this helps I tried to get a picture but my camer won't focus on it for some reason.
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Thanks. I have some more projects in line after I get this one done. Sometimes the easiest possible way to get something done is the right way, not always but sometimes, plastic iron on can be acceptable even for a master model builder such as yourself. The gear is 1/8" going from the fuse down the first bend is 3/8" and is a 90 degree the secon bend is ninety degrees from the first one and 3/4" from the top of the wire to the inside bend mark. The bend is 30 degrees. I hope this helps I tried to get a picture but my camer won't focus on it for some reason.
??? I am thinking the gear MUST be more than 3/4" long!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Nathan,
I don't remember my other Flite Streaks having a slight kink in the gear wire?
My interest is the "overall" length.
Could you get that for me please. Give me something to do while I'm waiting for my cloth hinge material.
Thanks,
Charles
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From the where the wire enters the fuse to where it bends into the axle area is 4 3/4 inches. The kink is possibly a brodak thing. Does your model have a small hardwood just forward of the wing at the wing center line? Wow that was convoluted LOL. The brodak kit has a small hardwood that the gear wire mounts to. I suppose the reson for the kink is too try to limit the gear bend back from a firm landing.
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I think I have come up with the color scheme for the next FS. I'm gonna try ultracoat and my wings will be transparent blue with white scallops across the leading edge with red trim. I may be getting to big for my britches but I'm gonna give it a try. >:D
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Sorry to say all my Flite Streaks did not have landing gear. My circle at the time was a hay field. H^^
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Different versions have differing styles or at least my fathers junior is straight and mine has a kink at the top. This llows for the gear to be a little under the wing. Brodak sells just the landing gear wire.
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Different versions have differing styles or at least my fathers junior is straight and mine has a kink at the top. This llows for the gear to be a little under the wing. Brodak sells just the landing gear wire.
Nathan,
Did you check the plans when you installed the gear wire?
Charles
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Oh yeah mine are almost exactly as per the plan. It came with a prebent wire. I wish I could get a decent picture of the plans for you but alas it isn't happening. 4 3/4 inches from the bend in the fuse to the bend for the axel is about right. Mine takes quite abit of angle to get the prop to touch.
Anyway, I flew her today 5 flights and all went terrific. Everything apears balanced and straight. It was windy and threatening to rain but we went anyway. I got a couple consecutive loops in and she held her lines and the .25 didn't burp a bit. I did have one run a little lean and another a little fat so I'll need some more seasoning with this engine to get all the kinks figured out. I am super excited, She turns great nd feels awesome. Thanks for all the help everyone. Stay tuned cause I'm hand building a second with a few changes.
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Nathan,
I'll bet you'll have your second finished before I have mu first finished. n~
Got my cloth hinges today.
Charles
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LOL maybe Charles maybe. OH and I found the source of my needling problems and fuel bubbleing. My brand new Brodak tank both vent solders failed within two flights. This is not the first time I've had this problem. I bought a Brodak tank for my dad's FS Junior and his broke after one flight. I Emailed Brodak tonight and tried to not be an ass but it was slightly difficult. I have one more tank but it was destined for another plane and I don't want to bend his outlet tube. I'll probably resolder them tonight but that is BS if you ask me.
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Nathan,
I would have sent it back with a note. Brodak would have sent you a second tank.
You could resolder the second. n~
Charles
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I didn't resolder them last night I was a little pissy when I wrote that lol. I sent Brodak an Email and m waiting for them to tell me what they will do. I had one more tank so I threw it on the plane so I can fly today. The thing is the vent tubes were not soldered together inside the tnk, this is probably what causes them to fail. It also causes excessive fuel foaming. All of my old perfects were soldered in this way. I would be willing to bet that the extra tank I put on her will crack the first day out. Anyway did you get them hinges down?
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Nathan,
Brodak will send you a new tank. Did you know they make custom tanks?
I have work to catch up on, I'm not retired, I'll probably glue the hinges on Sunday.
Charles
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Went flying, only got two flights in before the batteries gave out, HB~> She flew well and the tank vents didn't crack. I am narrowing down on the tune of her as well. She may be a tad nose heavy but I'm going to give it a few more flights before I make a change. My dad got a couple flights in as well. He had some mayhem of his own, the cloroplast bipe he built chucked the engine mount before it got off the ground soooooo back to the drawing board on that. Speaking of which. do you guys know of ny specific hot glue that works better than others? He also flew hi baby ring. She flew fine, his second flight on it he went inverted into the sun, lost the plane and down she went. The plane was fine but the block on the wen-mac cracked around the bottom mounting hole. We still hd fun and I am progressing on my second streak quite well. I remade a few ribs for it, cut the doublers, and the fuse is ready for hardwoods. I may need to run into the craft joint and grab some more wood for the leading edge but that won't be till next week.
Latersk,
Nathan
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Glad to hear the Streak is working for you. I have not had a tank that has not had the back plate removed so I could check the innereds. This is mainly to clean them of assembly crud. I also check the solder joints on the inside while the back plate is off. Even the old Veco tanks had the back plate removed to check stuff. H^^
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Anyway did you get them hinges down?
Nathan,
As a matter of fact, I did. Just have to sand them a bit.
Thanks for asking.
Charles
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Here is my Brodak Flite Streak which flys a pattern as well as I can fly it. Note the heavy hub and dental floss hinges. Engine is a St G20-23, with a small venturi and 9 x 4 prop. Covering is silk, red on wing is tissue, blue and black canopy are Areogloss. Numbers are black tissue
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Here is my Brodak Flite Streak which flys a pattern as well as I can fly it. Note the heavy hub and dental floss hinges. Engine is a St G20-23, with a small venturi and 9 x 4 prop. Covering is silk, red on wing is tissue, blue and black canopy are Areogloss. Numbers are black tissue
Jim,
You did a nice job! I like the yellow. I'll probably have yellow on mine someplace.
Did you add the hub because you needed the weight. What's your lap time on that engine?
Did it fit well? No engine offset? Rudder either?
I like your hinges. Are you a Dentist? LL~
Did my hinges and I'm not all that happy with the results. Pinking type sides aren't needed, why the stuff is offered that way?
Charles
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It needed the heavy hub to get the CG just behind the leading edge wood. When I started out, I was getting about 3 second laps on 60 ft lines; a friend remarked about flying combat stunt. I went to 62 ft. lines, and a smaller venturi, and have it over 4 seconds but not as slow as 5 sec, estimated. Someone told me the single most universal item in American households is dental floss. My dentist gives it to me for free. I've never had a hinge fail.
The kit was pre laser and went together very nicely, with good wood. No engine or rudder offset. It does have a weight box and adjustable leadouts.
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Jim,
Thanks for the info.
Have you used the adjustible leadout yet?
Charles
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If you look close you can see the leadouts coming out about level with the little riblet on top of the tip, a little in front of the spar. I start out with the leadouts about where I think they should be and then, usually, move them forward 1/8 in at a time if tension is not to suit me above 45 degrees. Adjusting leadouts is part of the basic trimming of the airplane, along with adjusting the weight box, dealing with warps, etc. I can tell the difference that moving the leadouts 1/8 inch makes in how the airplane flies.
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Jim, That is a nice plane. I am going to use adjustable leadouts on my next plane. My froward leadout is about an 1/8" forward of yours. The plans called for my CG to be a little behind were you set yours. It still feels a little nose heavy but I'm going to work on getting use to it. Boy yours is fast, I haven't put a clock on mine but it feels about 3.5 on 52' lines. I am using a little engine offset on mine and have less rudder than the plans called for but still some offset. These parasitic drags probably account for our differences in speed, not to mention a completely different engine lol.
John, I pulled the tank apart tonight and am going to fix it. I was being a bit stubborn about it but I've come around lol.
Charles the pinking does help to keep the hinges from fraying as you are gluing them down. They may not be the best most trick way to do it but it is functional. I am going to use dubro hinges in the one I am building right now. I am kinda use to the cloth hinges from my 1/2 A's and juniors. Mine is a little stiff but that is due to the poly being in the elevator joint. It will free up in time. What makes you unhappy with yours? is it just appearance or was it the application process?
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If you get the stab and elevator stuck together with finishing material, you can separate them by flossing with a piece of dental floss. H^^
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If you get the stab and elevator stuck together with finishing material, you can separate them by flossing with a piece of dental floss. H^^
Jim,
That "Avenger" I show from time to time, only the thickness of fine sandpaper seperates the control surfaces. Single thickness not folded 1500. After each and every coat. ;D
Charles
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Nathan,
the elevators are only .125" thick? Tight squeeze for the Dubro? I may try it on scrap. I can still remove the cloth, applied with dope.
Now I'm thinking using a LA .25 that I have, but the cut out on the fuselage is a tag large. I could fix that.
The Fox .35 fits better. I don't need 3 second laps, I do want to get back into stunt.
How did your engine fit?
Yes, Jim did a wonderful job on his Flite Streak, I believe I'll follow his lead and add a weight box. I hate to take things apart to add an adjustable lead outs. I could be convinced.
Charles
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My elevator is little thicker at.150. I haven't decided whether I am going to slot them or attach the hinges to the underside of the elevator. That depends on how it goes. I moved my hardwoods in to accommodate my engine. They were too far out. I am not sold on the weight box to tell you the truth. It may help experts or even advanced guys but I am neither and quickly get use to the idiosyncrasies of my airframe. Once I get too the more advanced maneuvers a weightbox may be necessary but not yet. I compare it too a novice buying a 1,000 dollar pool que :! It's kind odd about the poly and the hinged areas. They are not stuck together and there is a gap between the two so they are not rubbing but the hinges or something take a little while to free up most of the time. This is exacerbated by a tight fit between the stab and the elevator.
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Nathan,
(snip)
Now I'm thinking using a LA .25 that I have, but the cut out on the fuselage is a tag large. I could fix that.
The Fox .35 fits better. I don't need 3 second laps, I do want to get back into stunt.
How did your engine fit?
(snip)
Charles
Hi Charles,
Add shims above and below the maple mounts to get the opening the correct size.
The LA.25 with a 10-4 prop will be about as good as it gets for a Flite Streak engine.
The Fox .35 would also work, just set it up and run it correctly.
Now, get it finished and flying!
Bill
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Yeah Bill, I had to use small balsa shims to move my beems a little closer. Oddly enough on this new one I had to trim a 1/16 th off to clear my OS 20 FP. I guess I moved thme in just a little too much.
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OK,
My guess is I'll have a better practice airplane for stunt using the LA .25. Bill I purchased the LA .25 engine from your recomendation, you are my peer. But that Fox, after all these years is calling me, so I'm torn. My heart doesn't know what to do? ???
I'm going to remake tail feathers for the Flite Streak out of 1/16 balsa and use Kleet or Dubro hinges.
Charles
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Charles, The LA .25 should be great. Just check the balance due to the extr muffler weight and I would definatly run no engine off-set. As for the remade tail feathers I assume the 1/16 is a typo that whould be .0625 and I don't think DUbro hinges would like that. As for Kleet hinges I am unfamiliar with them. Are they the ones that look like jagged spears?
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Charles, The LA .25 should be great. Just check the balance due to the extr muffler weight and I would definatly run no engine off-set. As for the remade tail feathers I assume the 1/16 is a typo that whould be .0625 and I don't think DUbro hinges would like that. As for Kleet hinges I am unfamiliar with them. Are they the ones that look like jagged spears?
Nathan,
You're to kind. Thanks.
I meant 5/16" for the tail feathers. The kit is 1/8".
Klett hinges are identical to the Dubro except for the pin.
I have a tongue muffler for the LA .25.
Put my weight box in this morning. Maybe the weight of the box will be enough? n~
Hows your line tension? Exactly where are your leadouts located?
I know you were working on your lap time. How's that going?
Charles
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Charles, my forward leadout is 2.5 inches from the leading edge. I haven't gotten chance tto fly in the past couple days so I haven't done much with my lap times yet. All the data from the first time I took her out I had to toss because the loose vents were causing fuel foaming. Since I've fixed that I have only got two flights on her. 5/16 elevator should make hinging it easier and I doubt it will need ny bracing. My stab and elevator are between 1/8 and 3/16. I guess it is some metric deal IDK. They are .150. I'd use 3/16th if I didn't have this slightly thicker than 1/8 wood. With the added weight of the tail you may be able to run a full muffler without adding any tail weight. I used an ounce of wingtip weight and My plane flys straight meaning I cannot see the other wing in any of the maneuvers that I can do. My line tention is good but not great I have some expierements to run such as removing my engine offset and stuff like that but I really want to get my lap times around 4 seconds before I do that. Sorta 1 step forward and 2 back kinda deal ;) By good line tention I mean to say that it pulls all the time but it isn't trying to pull your arm outta socket like my father's Magician. This maybe the way a FS is I don't have enough experience to know any different. Last night I started cutting my elevtor for the dubro hinges, what a pain in the @ss. I was using the dubro tool but it was more inacurate than I could do with my eye so I changed over to a standard x-acto knife and then used the dubro gouging tool to remove the necessary wood. This made it better now it only takes about 15 minutes to do one half of one hinge. If this doesn't work I may just run home to mamma and go back to the cloth hinges.
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HI Nathan,
Don't count out cloth hinges as a very viable solution. You can get basically a "fully" sealed hinge line by using cloth which will make a big difference in the flying characteristics. I use the thinnest nylon taffeta I could find. It doesn't rot like linen hinges do over time and it is very "pliable".
Bill
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Nathan,
Sorry, I don't know why I said 5/16". I meant 3/16". Yea, that Dubro tool, you can't squeese it to much you'll crush the wood.
Thanks for those measurements. I'm 2.5" on the first leadout also and the other is .5" behind that.
I guess I'll plug in the LA .25, even though I'll have to fix the engine opening. Another task.
Yes, engine offset. Some say they don't use any. Let me know how you make out there?
Gear! Some guys are using two wheels on their Flite Streaks, did you see that Thread? I don't have the money for a second wheel. n~
Besides, I made my wire from your measurements.
Charles
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HI Nathan,Don't count out cloth hinges as a very viable solution. You can get basically a "fully" sealed hinge line by using cloth which will make a big difference in the flying characteristics. I use the thinnest nylon taffeta I could find. It doesn't rot like linen hinges do over time and it is very "pliable".Bill
Bill,
We were posting at the same time. ;D
Where do you get that material? Do you go over and under?
Charles
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Bill,
We were posting at the same time. ;D
Where do you get that material? Do you go over and under?
Charles
I bought the material at Wal Mart. Any fabric place should have it. I do go "over/under" and keep them very close together and go across the entire hinge line. Really helps since it is like "sealing" the hinge line.
Bill
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I bought the material at Wal Mart. Any fabric place should have it. I do go "over/under" and keep them very close together and go across the entire hinge line. Really helps since it is like "sealing" the hinge line.
Bill
Bill,
I'm always in Wal Mart, I buy my suits there. ;D
Exactly what do I ask for?
You use dope to glue them?
Charles
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I have used cloth hinges almost exclusively. However, I use the linen type that I get from Brodak or somewheres else. I have never had a "sealed" hinge line. How does this change things? I have researched hinging on this site and often people refer to the "sealed" hinge line yet I can find little that explains the benefit of such a practice. I am planning on painting this model so I have been at an impass as to whether I should install the hinges before or after paint and body work.
Charles, as for the wheels I like my one wheel setup I have had no troubles on landing but like I said my plane flys very level and it glides really really really well. I have no real accurate way to weigh it but I am guessing it is quite lite.
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Nathan,
I cannot speak for CL model planes, but I flew R/C pattern and built many pattern planes. Guys would call them pattern ships. I still called them planes.
Sealing the hinge line "opening," that is, the space between the TE and the control surface, offered advantages in flight performance. At least this was believed. Imagine a .125" space then no space at all. No air loss?
Some of these pattern guys would use tape to seal the hinge opening. I never used tape. I always built my pattern airplanes with really closed control surface openings. I would close the opening with construction, then control the space/gap during finishing with a sheet of 1500 sandpaper. I'm sure the CL guys get them tighter. Some paint these control surfaces off the model then attach them afterwards in different ways. I'm still trying to get more info on that.
There's this long wire method used as a single hinge pin, but I don't quite understand how you can get a tight gap with this system?
I have a design on the board where I would like to attach all the control surfaces after paint and finish.
Charles
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I use cloth hinges a LOT, especially if it is a Classic plane. I always put them in place before I cover the model. This way you can make them virtually disappear. With the hinges going the entire span, you do not have to (or want to) have the parts too tight to each other. This allows the control surfaces to be very free acting. You can attach the hinges with dope like you would cover with or using model airplane cement like Ambroid or Sigment.
On plastic hinges you always need to inset the hinge barrel into the LE of the control surface (like the elevator). This tightens up the gap, and then use clear tape to "seal" the hingeline. You can completely finish all the parts before you assemble them. You only need to glue the hinges in their slots.
If you want to try the nylon taffeta (it's cheap) just ask for "nylon taffeta". ;D
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Charles, you dont strive for a TIGHT fit,, you strive for a consistant fit,, then you use the tape to seal the gap... a tight gap without tape is actually worse because a .005 variation in a .02 gap is far more significant than a .005 variation in a .0625,, so instead of trying to achieve that perfect spacing,, ( because it will vary with air loads and the flexibility of control surfaces,, ) you use tape carefully applied over the hingline to seal the airflow,,
again, some time using the search feature perhaps searching ( sealed hingelines) will uncover far more extensive discussion than I am prepared to retype here,, as will searching for ( removable control surfaces)
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Just got back from the field. My laps clocked in at 3.78-3.82 seconds on 52 foot lines. My overall run time is a whopping 7.5 minutes lol. That old O.S. .25 is a fuel sipper. I had all kinds of fun and my engine and needle setting are getting better each flight. I'm starting to be able to get a wet to dry break. Dry not being the correct word but you get the meaning.
Mark, I apologize for being an inconvieniance to you. I have done searches for hinging methods and was unsure of the reasoning behind sealed hinges. Perhaps, in the future, I will refrain from questions that have been already asked, so as not to bother the more seasoned posters.
Bill and Charles, I haven't tried the nylon yet maybe on a future build. Right now I am enjoying beating my head against the wall with these dubros LOL. I have always finished after hinging when using cloth and will probably do the sme here. I am betting that the nylon ones would be easier to cover-up. Thanks again guys for the input and advice.
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Mark,
Thanks for the reply, it's an eye opener!
I never used the tape because I've seen, eventually it would get gummy and have to be removed and replaced. In all honesty, I never cared about it back then.
Now, I would like to know a bit more about this and will absolutely take your advice and search. I must say, I had no idea CL modelers used tape to seal the hingeline. Placed on the bottom I'm guessing? Color?
Now you have me thinking about the application. It must be "tucked" into the hinge line? I hope I'll see photos when I do my search.
Thanks again for that.
Charles
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Just got back from the field. My laps clocked in at 3.78-3.82 seconds on 52 foot lines. My overall run time is a whopping 7.5 minutes lol. That old O.S. .25 is a fuel sipper. I had all kinds of fun and my engine and needle setting are getting better each flight. I'm starting to be able to get a wet to dry break. Dry not being the correct word but you get the meaning.
Mark, I apologize for being an inconvieniance to you. I have done searches for hinging methods and was unsure of the reasoning behind sealed hinges. Perhaps, in the future, I will refrain from questions that have been already asked, so as not to bother the more seasoned posters.
Bill and Charles, I haven't tried the nylon yet maybe on a future build. Right now I am enjoying beating my head against the wall with these dubros LOL. I have always finished after hinging when using cloth and will probably do the sme here. I am betting that the nylon ones would be easier to cover-up. Thanks again guys for the input and advice.
HI Nathan,
I would say that you should probably move to 58' eye to eye lines. The plane should easily handle those length lines. Once you get closer to 60' lines you should probably be flying in the upper 4 sec. range. 4.8-4.9 would hep in learning to stunt, etc..
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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That was my estimation as well Bill. I am space limited were I fly and we have already made some incidental contact on the flightbox with 52' lines so I will probably be staying put until we find a larger area to fly in. I am still getting nervous my first couple of flights and have learned not to attempt to complex of a manuever while I'm a little stiff. After a bit I free up. Most of my flying has been on a junior that was pretty durn fast so I am sorta use to it but wtchin my dad's RM with a fox makes me jealous of the low speed level flight. Once agin rambling lol. We narrowly avoided some storms today; hopefully, it will be clear tomorrow nd I'll get more than a couple flights in. Right now I am focused on my three consecutive loops and wing-overs. Net she is going on her back.
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Nathan,
Hey! I've been busy. LL~
Flying in tight areas? Ever have to run with a model to get the lines tight? You'll have to run twice.
Well, the HS was closed, missed it by five minutes, so the tail feathers will have to wait a day.
I hopping to fly with 60'. Hope the .25 will keep the model out there.
The wife and I looked over Alpharetta, sp? Other places also. Nice there.
Hey! Three pages. Congratulations and kudos!
Charles
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Yeah it kinda looks like you have been a little busy. It also looks like my key board is dying my A's and X's are not working properly. I'm jealous that you have a local HS I gotta load a covered wagon and face starvation and the elements to traverse the nation to get to mine LOL. I don't think you'll have a problem on 60' lines if you can keep your weight down. My flying area is crooked and I dare not try 60 footers it would work but I wander too much when I am flying. Alpharetta, sp? Whats that about? Some place in Spain, I here the rain there mostly falls on the plains. LL~
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nathan,
WHY AREN'T YOU IN BED?
Alpheratta Georgia, just notrh west of Atlanta. You must know of it? You pulling my leg?
You have to try to find a larger field. Don't they play baseball in your town?
Yes, you did say you drove for a few hours to get to your HS. Mine is two miles away. The best one is 16 miles away.
I'll get my wood tomorrow. Possibly by the weekend I'll silk this puppy. Silking it just for the experience.
Can't wait to fly the thing.
Charles
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Yeah I figured it out after a bit. I'm a little slow these days. I'm turning into a night owl for the net three weeks that I am off. I'm down in Valdosta GA and am a transplant so I am not real knowledgable bout the area. We have a soccer and baseball diamond close to us at a park but there is someone normally there so we use a grass parking lot area off to the side. We try nd stay out of the way so that the law leaves us alone. I can't wait to hear the report of you flying yours either.
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Mark, I apologize for being an inconvieniance to you. I have done searches for hinging methods and was unsure of the reasoning behind sealed hinges. Perhaps, in the future, I will refrain from questions that have been already asked, so as not to bother the more seasoned posters.
Nathan,
not sure what gave you the impression that you are an inconvinience to me? My reply was pointed towards Charles as he was asking about taping hinge lines,, and Just because I did not feel like retyping something at that moment had less to do with being put out, and more to do with not having time,, ( I was at work,, dont tell the boss ok)
The search tool however is a very good tool,, there is lots of info there, but if you dont know that something is there, you dont know to search,, that is why on some questions I suggest searching, and others I do not,,
some topics have quite a history, and much of it written by much more qualified persons than me,, so I prefer to point people to the source,, rather than risk paraphrasing something and getting it wrong on some point,,
I regret that I gave you the impression that I was put out by your question,, not at all the case,,
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Mark, It's cool I just misunderstood because it was originally my question concerning the sealed hinges. When searching out techniques for using dubro hinges I found alot of references too sealing hinge joints. I still am unsure of what effect this has on the flying charecteristics. I have made extensive use of the search function but to be honest it is a grueling process because often the simpleist problems are often glazed over and for me these are the areas that I am looking for due to my limited knowledge. Reading the threads by the advanced builders and flyers is much like reading Einstein to learn arithmetic LOL.
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Mark, It's cool I just misunderstood because it was originally my question concerning the sealed hinges. When searching out techniques for using dubro hinges I found alot of references too sealing hinge joints. I still am unsure of what effect this has on the flying charecteristics. I have made extensive use of the search function but to be honest it is a grueling process because often the simpleist problems are often glazed over and for me these are the areas that I am looking for due to my limited knowledge. Reading the threads by the advanced builders and flyers is much like reading Einstein to learn arithmetic LOL.
Nathan,
Mark is cool and a stand up guy, although I guess he sometimes sits. I believe Mark and I both have different models called "Avenger." Mine was finished in representation of the British Avenger television series. Flag graphics, etc. I have no Idea why Mark calls his model that? You would have to ask Mark. Maybe it was the kit? He knows what he's talking about when he offers information, he's also an excellent builder and finisher. He was correct on this spar thing issue of mine in another post.
Searching. You can waste a great deal of time searching and come up with nothing. I searched to find out what chemical Al Rabe used when he did his glassing over sheeted balsa. Never did I find the brand. I figured I glassed enough sheeted balsa in my time and decided to stay with my winning game. I never even asked the Forum. They would have told me to do a search. LL~
Yeah Baby!
Charles
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Hey Charles,, you did ask,, and we told you ,, remember all the conversations about Polyester resin versus epoxy?
anyway,, the secret to the search is to try different search words,, but at least it gives you a basis to begin understanding,
as to the sealed hinge lines,, basically it makes the control surface more "efficient" and it eliminates any variation as the hinge line rotates through its range of motion,
There is an opportunity for the gap to open or close at different points making the airflow vary over the surface. taping it eliminates any variation as it goes through its motion, making the response more linear and consistent......
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Mark,
Thanks for that. Kudos on the spar.
The tape line?
I'm guessng with the advent of removable control surfaces, i.e., that long wire system, the actual gap the tape is sealing is the thiskness of the exposed hinge. That could be almost an .09". Correct?
What's with these other, really beautifully finished models, that appear to have a slight notch at each hinge?
I can see the clear taping of that also, but what method is used to remove those control surfaces? Doesn't seem like these modelers are using that long wire system. Keep in mind I'm viewing from photos.
Thanks again,
Charles
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Loving the streak Charles. She looks rel good. I like the red on the tail.
Mark, Thanks I can see how the gap changing throughout a maneuver as input changes would cause an inconsistency problem. I was looking at the problem too two dimensionally.
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Mark,
Thanks for that. Kudos on the spar.
The tape line?
I'm guessng with the advent of removable control surfaces, i.e., that long wire system, the actual gap the tape is sealing is the thiskness of the exposed hinge. That could be almost an .09". Correct?
What's with these other, really beautifully finished models, that appear to have a slight notch at each hinge?
I can see the clear taping of that also, but what method is used to remove those control surfaces? Doesn't seem like these modelers are using that long wire system. Keep in mind I'm viewing from photos.
Thanks again,
Charles
I do not use removable surfaces ( yet) ,,
here are some threads,,
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=1922.0
look at post #7 specifically, it shows the hinge pocket tool
and another thread with some pictures,,
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=2040.0
post 8 has a close up of the hinge pocket,,
basicallly it allows you to get the surfaces closer together, and accomodate the barrel of the hinge,,
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These are two of the many threads I found related to this subject. There are many for sure. I think I will stick to the cloth hinges after this build, I may change over to the nylon taffeta that was mentioned earlier. These dubro's are a serious pain with the dubro tool or with my regular e-xacto. Maybe I'll try the kleets sometime.
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Once you have a system down for doing them its actually very easy,,
One trick I have seen done is to build up your control surface in three layers,, a core of 1/32 is used,, you cut your hinge slots in that ( actually they are pockets for the hinge leaf) then you laminate 1/8 balsa over each side of the 1/32,, this gives you a perfect hinge slot with no muss,, just dont use an excess of glue when laminating,,
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Yeah I seen that when I was researching. That does look very simple and accurate. I had already commited to using one solid piece so I didn't give it too much thought. I am going to be painting this model so I am going to drill a few small holes on each hinge and inject some CA through them then strike it off clean, sand, and paint. My problem cutting the holes has been the compacted balsa from using the dubro forked blade. The compacted area takes a relative mount of force to dig out and each time something gives I am putting the piece of work in danger. I'm just crying lol it isn't too bad it's just time consuming nd there is no real gaurentee that I'm getting them in there straight laterally.
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YEA BABY!
Hey! Hey! Nathan,
Picked up my sheet of 3/16 balsa today and I'll be working on my tail feathers. Is your rudder also 3/16" balsa?
I use 30 minute epoxy resin on my Klett/Dubro hinges. I work it in the hinge opening then put the hinge in place, all of them pinned. I scuff the hinge up with sandpaper first, not sure that helps. From underneath I set up a drill with a stop so not to go all the way through, just to get through the hinge. Toothpicks work. Cut them off after. Only one side to sand, the bottom.
Three pages! Congratulations!
Charles
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I, along with many others, finish all the parts, up to and including clear, before attaching the control surfaces. The sanded in "pockets" for the barrel will have just enough extra room for all the hinges to line up correctly. And we do not use single long "pin" to attach the surfaces. One all the parts are finished, epoxy the hinges into the control surface all at one time. By pressing the LE of the surface onto a flat surface you will get all the hinges lined up straight. Once they have cured, apply epoxy to the hinge slots on the wing or stab and push the hinges in. Using oil, white grease, or melted Vaseline in the hinge barrel you will not get epoxy into the hinge. So far I have not attempted removable control surfaces. And pinning the hinges in place is not necessary since we have good epoxy.
BTW, Charles, Mark's Avenger is so named because the original model (in the '60s, it is Classic legal) was named Avenger when Don Shultz designed it.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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BTW, Charles, Mark's Avenger is so named because the original model (in the '60s, it is Classic legal) was named Avenger when Don Shultz designed it.
Bill,
I thought so, but I haven't given out any false information yet and I certainly don't want to start now.
Nice name for a kit, but the TV show wasn't in play at that time.
Charles
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(Clip)
Nice name for a kit, but the TV show wasn't in play at that time.
Charles
So What? For your information, Don Shultz is at the upper limit in the spectrum of creativity. Do not even suggest that he is not.
Keith
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I can attest to that,, he was pretty active doing cartoons for at least one of the model magazines for many years
His Avenger was quite a departure aestetically and structurally and in my humblest opinion, its one of the more unique designs from the era,,
( caveat,, I was not active in the 60s,, and in the 70s all I did was read magazines and wish,,so I only know what I have learned since,, and seen during the time by magazine exposure,, )
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Nathan,
Let's try to get back on topic! Shoot for four pages!
Hey! How's that second Flite Streak coming? Should be framed by now? You said you were going to paint the second? Colors? Any big changes to it?
I cut mt 3/16" tail feathers, made the elevator a bit wider, and cut my hinge pockets. I'll try to get them done over the weekend. Gotta put on a couple of coats of Dr. Good to fill and add strength to the wood, fuel proofs it also.
If you want the stab and elevator, I'll mail them to you.
Charles
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Nathan,
Let's try to get back on topic! Shoot for four pages!
Charles
Charles,, you may have not caught it, ,but as a hint,, this constant concern of yours for page count,, and post count is kind of annoying to a lot of people,, it may help you get along here if you quit putting a premium on this,, and instead focus on quality information, instead of quantity information,, just trying to help you get along,,
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Mark, I appreciate your concern about our member's reputations; however, in the future I would suggest contacting them through PM or contacting a moderator if this is insuffecient. I am concerned about this thread becoming a mudslinging event; consequently, being deleted. Please respect my concerns.
My most humble thanks,
Nathan
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Nathan,
I asked a question of you that I imagine you missed?
You did say your stab and elevator were made of 3/16" stock. My "original" Flite Streak kit, and I know I should have sold it on ebay, had these parts made from 1/8" stock. I remade them with 3/16" stock.
I asked about the rudder parts. Are yours made of 1/8" stock or 3/16" stock?
I do have some 3/16" stock left over, but I really don't want to remake the rudder.
Also, take your best photos of your finished Flite Streak. There should be a Flite Streak photo Thread. Probably plenty of guys with them!
Thanks,
Charles
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(Clip)
I do have some 3/16" stock left over, but I really don't want to remake the rudder.
(Clip)
Thanks,
Charles
I apologize in avance to others on this forum, but felt it was my civic duty to contribute to the page count here.
Also, for any that are interested, I have some scrap 3/16 stock if anybody needs some, maybe even enough to make a rudder.
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Charles sorry about that, My rudder is made from 1/8" It seems to hold up well so far.
I apologize to anyone on the forum who believes I am purely posting on this thread in order to make a "thread count" I am purely enjoying building and flying my plane and thought a thread to ask questions in and to express my enjoyments and issues with this plane was within the "spirit" of a forum. I suppose I am wrong and have started to see that unexperienced flyers should be seen and not heard. I do appreciate the feedback and help that I recieved from everyone.
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Charles sorry about that, My rudder is made from 1/8" It seems to hold up well so far.
I apologize to anyone on the forum who believes I am purely posting on this thread in order to make a "thread count" I am purely enjoying building and flying my plane and thought a thread to ask questions in and to express my enjoyments and issues with this plane was within the "spirit" of a forum. I suppose I am wrong and have started to see that unexperienced flyers should be seen and not heard. I do appreciate the feedback and help that I recieved from everyone.
You are fine, Nathan. Your posts have been exactly what everyone is here for. Keep it up and we will try to make helpful comments for your model. It's not your fault.
Bill
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Nathan, Bill has hit the nail on the head. We were all beginners at one time or another. I have only met one man that built his first control line stunt plane and made it look like he had been building for years. He got several flights on a trainer before we let him fly his bird. My first Flight Streak was built box stock. H^^
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Nathan,
Sorry about all that sideways stuff also, but, you're doing fine with your build Thread. Lots of guys have Flite Streaks. I built a few as a kid!
I'm a newbie also, I don't have anything to fly that's CL and nothing finished!
Thing is, I have difficulty concentrating on any one single model. I generally work on a few at the same time.
I'll get this Flite Streak finished then start working on The New American until it's completed. I'll continue with that build.
I'll get a photo of my Flite Streak framed.
Yeah Baby!
Charles
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Had to sit at the field for an hour or so today to wait for the wind to die down. I got two flights in today but hung it up early because of fuel tank issues again. I changed my tank back to the original one that broke. I resoldered it and soldered the vent tubes together inside the tank. I also changed the mounting from a single tin strap to two mounting tabs soldered to the tank. I am using a thin piece of closed cell foam in between the tank and the fuse. I doubt the foam is doing much because the tank is mounted pretty stiff. Anyway My fuel is foming; therefore, I can get no consistancy. I recieved another tank in the mail yesterday from Brodak and am going to try something I just don't know what. We had some flight experts join us but they had little incite to our problems. Instead they just seemed pleased to eat a stale hot dog roll.
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Had to sit at the field for an hour or so today to wait for the wind to die down. I got two flights in today but hung it up early because of fuel tank issues again. I changed my tank back to the original one that broke. I resoldered it and soldered the vent tubes together inside the tank. I also changed the mounting from a single tin strap to two mounting tabs soldered to the tank. I am using a thin piece of closed cell foam in between the tank and the fuse. I doubt the foam is doing much because the tank is mounted pretty stiff. Anyway My fuel is foming; therefore, I can get no consistancy. I recieved another tank in the mail yesterday from Brodak and am going to try something I just don't know what. We had some flight experts join us but they had little incite to our problems. Instead they just seemed pleased to eat a stale hot dog roll.
save youself the hassles. Get a 2oz plastic clunk tank, hook it up to muffler pressure, use a sintered brass clunk - engine problems over!!! if you need any more info -you can PM me ..
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Wynn, I would but my engine is a pre-muffler type design. It did come with one but it's a strap on unit and it is pretty detrimental to performance. My next lane has an O.S. .20 FP and is has a plastic hayes clunk going on it.
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Ok - on the current one - same setup with sintered clunk - but plumb it as uniflow.
the 20 FP will LOVE muffler pressure (unless you want to do the BBTU)
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...but since you are currently using a metal tank - Pressure check for leaks. Especially if you have soldered tabs or straps to it. The heat from soldering mounting hardware can open up leaks in the tank seams. As for foaming, a couple of drops of Armor All per gallon will eliminate it. Some may disagree withthis practice but it works. Check for leaks first though, if you find any you have found the problem. 8)
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Wynn, I'm gonna try and solve this with the tanks I have first then I'll switch to a different tank if necessary. I do realize the beneficial nature of the plastic clunks; however, I was trying to stay within the classic methods for this plane. I thought the BBTU used muffler pressure into the Hayes clunk? I gotta reread it; although, My engine doesn't quite qualify because it is a steely.
Balsa, I had some armorall in that fuel I think. It was the last of a quart. I pressure checked the tank prior to installing it but not after I installed the bracketry. I will re-check it. The engine does not seem to vibrate too much but the bubbles to correlate to engine speed.
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Just for what it's worth: bubbles may or may not be an issue. Uniflow setups introduce air close to the fuel intake so bubbles come with the territory. Try blocking off the uniflow and uncorking the overflow. The tank reverts to a suction tank. Does the concentration of bubbles remain unchanged? I still go with the leak theory, probably introduced after the brackets were soldered on. 8)
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Individual adjustable leadouts can be made using eyelits. Everyone seems to figure out their own method of doing this. Words fail me. And I haven't got a handy diagram. Basically you want an interior wing tip that allows the eyelits to be repositioned in adjustment holes. A slit joining these holes allows the control wire to move forward and back. The idea is to have support for the eyelits with clearance to move the wire. If you choose you can open up a channel in the inside bays (perhaps two) so that the rear leadout can be moved forward. Usually that is not necessary with these comparatively short coupled birds. I have enlarged the stab and elevator when I built a few Streaks with longer nose and tail moments. This seemed to be beneficial when doing these mods. The increased moments helped those Streaks do a better pattern. Less bobble, smoother shapes. If stock moments are used, I would keep the stab/elevator the same. When the CG is put right, these birds turn and are great fun.
Weight box, always useful for trimming.
The top is a jr Streak powered by an FP15. Needle that baby till she screams. Use spider wire. Fabulous fun.
The bottom Streak uses an ARF wing. Moments were lengthened. Stab increased in size by about 30%. Power is a Tower 40 I setup for stunt. A good way to practice the pattern. Effective in Intermediate at local contests. Especially when not too many are sandbagging.
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Yep. I thought of hanging moveable flaps on the back of a Streak, widening the originals, using an enlarged stab/elevator. I even bought a set of Brodak Streak ribs. My thinking is to add a few more bays as well. I hope to psyche myself to build this plane in two weeks max. Just too many "serious" (I am laughing) stunt projects that need work.
The Brodak Streak uses the same airfoil as the original, but wing construction is conventional. Which is a convenience. Webbing between the spars with light weight wood makes the Brodak Streak wing as strong at the original. I guess.
I almost always go the field with a Streak or two, as well as a few more serious Stunt war wagon. When the winds are up, Streaks are still fun and low risk to splat.
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Yep. I thought of hanging moveable flaps on the back of a Streak,
Dennis,
I had flaps on a Flite Streak as a teenager, shortened the fuselage also, but I decided not to on my recent Flite Streak. Just didn't have the time and everyone said it "wasn't necessary." I did however, increased the area of the elevator, just a tad.
I'm still undecided on what engine I'm going to put in it. Probably the old fox .35 if it runs well.
Nathan,
I cannot help you with your tank issue, I'm learning there also, sorry. I can say this, as a kid, along with everyone else, we would start the engine, no mufflers, no pressure, no uniflow, and the thing would run until the tank was empty. Most of the time.
Nathan, did you notice if the stab was set at 0 degrees? It looks as if the original kit I'm building has a slight positive incidence in the stab. Might have been the way the fuselage was cut? I set it at 0.
Charles
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Wynn, I'm gonna try and solve this with the tanks I have first then I'll switch to a different tank if necessary. I do realize the beneficial nature of the plastic clunks; however, I was trying to stay within the classic methods for this plane. I thought the BBTU used muffler pressure into the Hayes clunk? I gotta reread it; although, My engine doesn't quite qualify because it is a steely.
You can do both, just look at use of a plastic clunk tank as verifying or refuting engine run problems. As in if the thing won't run on a stock Hayes 3-ounce clunk tank you probably don't have tank-related issues.
As to your motor being a steelie I wouldn't give up on it just yet. No, I do not have any personal experience here; but it need not be trashed without some flight testing. You will surely need significantly more lube in the fuel with my suggestion being to use Klotz KL-200 to bring the oil up to around 25%. And it might require even more oil although at that point it might be best to just get the real thing, an ABN motor.
Dan
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You can do both, just look at use of a plastic clunk tank as verifying or refuting engine run problems. As in if the thing won't run on a stock Hayes 3-ounce clunk tank you probably don't have tank-related issues.
As to your motor being a steelie I wouldn't give up on it just yet. No, I do not have any personal experience here; but it need not be trashed without some flight testing. You will surely need significantly more lube in the fuel with my suggestion being to use Klotz KL-200 to bring the oil up to around 25%. And it might require even more oil although at that point it might be best to just get the real thing, an ABN motor.
Dan
Sir Daniel of Dirt,
I have a good bit of experience with a steelie OS .20FP set up per Brett's suggestions. As long as the right fuel is used it doesn't seem to make a noticeable difference. (it does help to run a tiny bit more oil than in the ABN FPs at least in the heat around here)
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Wow, Lots of info here. The plane ran great with my previous tank and mounting. Which were a standard vented 3 oz. Brodak tank with a single strap and some foam behind the tank. The problem with this set-up was that the tank meandered too much. Often the aft section of the tank would be a 1/4" or so below engine centerline. So I deceided to try a more stiff mounting.
As for the Steelie .20 FP I'm gonna run her as per the BBTU to the best of my bilities. My fuel is 10% with 23% oil 50/50 syn castor. All of my O.S.'s seem to like it.
As for chnging the moments and the elevators I am going to give ol' Mr. Aldridge the benefit of the doubt and say he knew more about this than I ever will lol and just have fun stock until I see were I need some changes.
Thanks for all the responses guys. I'm gonna run some tests either tonight or tomorrow so I'll get back to you with results.
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So I pressure checked the tank and it is not leaking. I also rechecked all screw and bolts and nothing was loose. I am considering changing over to a J hook and rurrrrer band mounting but have yet to pull the trigger.
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So I pressure checked the tank and it is not leaking. I also rechecked all screw and bolts and nothing was loose. I am considering changing over to a J hook and rurrrrer band mounting but have yet to pull the trigger.
Nathan,
Back in the day, we drilled four small holes in the fuselage, two on top and two on the bottom for the tank spread, then used mechanic's wire with twists to hold the tank. Tightened right to the fuselage with no padding. GA stainless would be better, the wire used to keep drilled bolts from loosening.
Did you follow the plans for your rudder offset?
I'm close to covering.
Charles
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No Charles I did not I reduced the amount of off-set and pretty well centered the forward portion on the fuse. rather than having it off to the left side. Right now I am not too high o any form of hard mounting a metal tank. I have had too many problems with fuel bubbles and foaming.
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So I pressure checked the tank and it is not leaking. I also rechecked all screw and bolts and nothing was loose. I am considering changing over to a J hook and rurrrrer band mounting but have yet to pull the trigger.
thats how I used to mount mine of profiles - you can also make a ply backing that the rubber bands go on which is then scewed to the fuse - screws go through a slot in the ply so you can adjust up and down as required.
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Wynn, I really like that idea. I am having a hard time picturing how the bands connect to the ply. Do you have any pictures of that arrangment? I have some ply that should work and I could make use of the holes I have already drilled both of these things appeal to me greatly.
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Nathan,
There's another way, keeping in mind that not only must the tank be secured properly, it ought be readily adjustable, and be a light installation.
Obtain either 2-56- or 4-40-sized inner rods from one of those tube-in-a-tube pushrod sets so commonly used in RC models.
Drill suitably sized holes in your fuselage, two on upper side of tank, two on the bottom. Give these a vertical spacing which will allow moving the tank up and down at least 1/4 inch, quite likely more if using the Hayes 3-ounce tank. (This tank is not symmetrical and typically needs to be mounted about 3/16" high.)
Noting the pilot holes need to be a little tight (13/64" if using 4-40 tube) pound in short lengths of this tubing. Hit them with thin CA.
Now you need some hooks and these are easily bent up from that threaded-one-end metal rod (again used in many RC control systems) available at Local Hobby. (It's worth noting that SIG sells 4-40 threaded hooks which are ready to use, although they are sometimes a bit short for my applications.) Lots of ways to bend these hooks and I prefer to use snipe-nose pliers.
Screw hooks into receptacles installed per above.
Install tank. Yes, you can use rubber bands even if that's quite tacky. Or there are lots of .060- and .090-inch "O" rings out there which you will find handy and quite reliable.
Note that tank is now free to move up and down under flight loads. During first tests it's okay to make balsa or ply shims of various thicknesses in order to shim tank to whatever height seems correct. I typically use shims as thin as 1/64-inch with the rest thicker. (Later on, with tank in "magic" position, you can fabricate shims which will not get soaked with oil.)
At the field you can run the engine while a helper holds. Get an rpm reading both upright and inverted. Any differences will be a clue as to shimming tank.
Fly the model. Even with above test it probably won't be right. Shim accordingly, noting that you will merely be, for example, removing an upper shim and replacing it below the tank. Total shim stack stays the same, meaning there are no issues with measuring, counting shims and so on.
Do not be satisfied with flying tests which are limited to upright and inverted flight. Fly maneuvers instead with horizontal 8s being valuable although not necessarily the final word, depending upon how experienced you are and how critical you want to be in getting the best engine runs possible.
Dan
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Nathan,
There's another way, keeping in mind that not only must the tank be secured properly, it ought be readily adjustable, and be a light installation.
Obtain either 2-56- or 4-40-sized inner rods from one of those tube-in-a-tube pushrod sets so commonly used in RC models.
Drill suitably sized holes in your fuselage, two on upper side of tank, two on the bottom. Give these a vertical spacing which will allow moving the tank up and down at least 1/4 inch, quite likely more if using the Hayes 3-ounce tank. (This tank is not symmetrical and typically needs to be mounted about 3/16" high.)
Noting the pilot holes need to be a little tight (13/64" if using 4-40 tube) pound in short lengths of this tubing. Hit them with thin CA.
Now you need some hooks and these are easily bent up from that threaded-one-end metal rod (again used in many RC control systems) available at Local Hobby. (It's worth noting that SIG sells 4-40 threaded hooks which are ready to use, although they are sometimes a bit short for my applications.) Lots of ways to bend these hooks and I prefer to use snipe-nose pliers.
Screw hooks into receptacles installed per above.
Install tank. Yes, you can use rubber bands even if that's quite tacky. Or there are lots of .060- and .090-inch "O" rings out there which you will find handy and quite reliable.
Note that tank is now free to move up and down under flight loads. During first tests it's okay to make balsa or ply shims of various thicknesses in order to shim tank to whatever height seems correct. I typically use shims as thin as 1/64-inch with the rest thicker. (Later on, with tank in "magic" position, you can fabricate shims which will not get soaked with oil.)
At the field you can run the engine while a helper holds. Get an rpm reading both upright and inverted. Any differences will be a clue as to shimming tank.
Fly the model. Even with above test it probably won't be right. Shim accordingly, noting that you will merely be, for example, removing an upper shim and replacing it below the tank. Total shim stack stays the same, meaning there are no issues with measuring, counting shims and so on.
Do not be satisfied with flying tests which are limited to upright and inverted flight. Fly maneuvers instead with horizontal 8s being valuable although not necessarily the final word, depending upon how experienced you are and how critical you want to be in getting the best engine runs possible.
Dan
Yep, that will work well, ,seen it,, pretty dagnabit precise too,,
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Nathan,
I hope you get that tank thing figured out. Won't be long before I'm confronted with the same task.
Here's one wing panel silked with Sig dope. only three more left. n~
Charles
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Here's one wing panel silked with Sig dope. only three more left. n~
Charles
Charles,
I guess you can can cover and dope one wing panel at a time if you want to. It is a good way to get some uncontrolled warps. But you should not recommend it to a less experienced builder. If I remember right, you were warned about this with that rudder thing you did.
Keith
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Keith,, he was warned,, several people in fact,, however, I am glad you reminded people so those who will listen will know not to cover one side at a time,, especially not to cover and dope one side at a time,,
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Charles,I guess you can can cover and dope one wing panel at a time if you want to. It is a good way to get some uncontrolled warps. But you should not recommend it to a less experienced builder. If I remember right, you were warned about this with that rudder thing you did.
Keith
Keith,
I have never told anyone on this Forum how to do anything, ever. I just say what I do.
You are correct, I was told not to apply dope when both sides of a wing or rudder were not completely silked. Good advice actually.
I have only one coat of non shrinking dope on that wing. Still straight as an arrow since the swimming pool fix.
I'm impatient and couldn't resist applying that coat.
Your past advice has paid off, I can now silk a wing. Not with total confidence, mind you, but I'm getting it done.
Thanks for your help.
Charles
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I decided to just get over the looks of it and I marked my tank area and drilled .098 holes in my hardwoods and screwed in J hooks.
(http://)
It worked like champ and got rid of all my bubbles. She ran great today. I did have a little standard vent inconsitancies but with a good needle it was hardly noticable. Man this plane is a joy to fly.
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As you can see the day was not without casualties lol. I went into inverted way to high and it didn't go well. It's all part of learning so I am not upset but man I wish it broke in an easier spot.
(http://)
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Here is an update on the second streak I am building. I finished notching the stab and elevator. The fuse is built minus the tail feathers. I was planning on working on it tonight but I have to fix the other one instead.
(http://)
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Nathan,
Sorry about your loss, bummer.
Any plans on how you're going to do the fix?
second Flite Streak looks great so far. I see those evenly spaced Dubro hinges. I have the same, Klett actually, but left the center one off.
I'll get a photo.
Photos of your repair?
Charles
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No big deal Charles, I knew it was going to happen when I built it. Learning the pattern does not come easy to me but I have already gotten farther with this plane than I was before. For a fix I am ca the cracks and fitting the broken wing back in the hole it came out of. Once I get it fit tight and how I like it I am going to smear a bunch of epoxy in the joints and jam it back together and pin it. I am hoping to be back in the air tomorrow. I don't think I have enough room to put plywood over the break points so I'm not going to worry about it. The goal is to get the LE back straight and the epoxy will do the rest LOL.
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a doubler of balsa behind the spar, and leading edge even 1/16 will make a large difference.
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Yeah Mark I am going to have to find a way to double her up. The break in the spar happened right at the sheeting ajacent to a rib so it isn't the easiest section to deal with. I think I am going to put a 1/4" stick gusset for the center of the spar to the rib and then make a piece that extends the center sheeting over the top and bottom cap. I'll post pictures. Then I am going to put thin ply into the leading edge. The trailing edge could use something too but with how it broke I think it best to just leave it as is. I am not going to be able to get her done to fly this afternoon so I'll take my time and get it right. I wish it had waited till I finished my spare plane lol. Thats the way of it though when you are flying.
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She's ready to go again. I think it's gonna rain so I'll probably not get to try it out this evening but I'm glad it's done. I had to cut the damaged section of the leading edge off and reattach it in two places because the wing would not slide back together square with it in one piece. Once I cut that out I was able to slide the detached section of the leading edge into the break point and slide the rest of the wing back into the broken edge while keeping everything straight and level. I epoxied that all together by applying epoxy into the joint edges. Once that l hardened I began gusseting. The spar got triangle gussets on either side of the break point and I recessed the top and bottom caps and epoxied 3/32 ply. I also recessed the leading edge in two sections one on top and one on bottom and epoxied 3/32 ply. I put the leading edge gussets over the area that I cut rather than the break area because the break joint was extremely ragged and with the epoxy I figure that should make a strong joint. However, the gussets to catch part of the original break. Pictures are worth more than words Soooo. I almost forgot I also had another spar area that was damaged by a piece of prop. I just cut a piece of 1/16 to fit and epoxied it in back of the damaged section. There was also many rib fractures nd breaks that I fixed.
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HI Nathan,
Looks like you did a great job on the repairs and you should be good to go again! It is simply a matter (like so many other things we do) of learning from your mistakes.
Have fun!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Yeah Bill, I just wish I knew what my mistake was lol. I willtry to go into inverted from a tighter loop. That over head stuff still confuses me lol.
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Yeah Bill, I just wish I knew what my mistake was lol. I willtry to go into inverted from a tighter loop. That over head stuff still confuses me lol.
HI Nathan,
Can you fly "Lazy 8's"? If so, just extend the inverted part of the "8" farther and farther. Did you try to go inverted from an inside or outside loop? An inside loop is MUCH easier to go inverted.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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I came in from an inside loop. I just let the loop get big. I seriously do not know what happened. I thought I had it and then whammy it just went straight into the dirt lol. I don't remember putting incorrect input into the handle. I think I just didn't put enough "wheels" input in. From the height it was coming it was similar to a wing over and I just wasn't ready for it. I should have aborted it when I knew I was too high to be comfortable. My dad mentioned the method of extending lazy 8's I may give this a try.
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Nathan,
Looks airworthy!! Did a great job.
The ground must have been soft? Did you clean the engine?
You know what GA pilots say? "Altitude is your friend."
I'm moving slowly on my Flite Streak but have a great idea for a scheme.
Charles
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LOL umm nope the ground torn my durn wing off lol. Yeah I cleaned and took everything apart. I did get a chance to fly her today and everything is great. I did change fuel to Omega with 4 oz. of castor and the engine runs better. The wet too dry 2 stroke was wonderful. She seemed to loaf around flat and gets to town when manuevered. I am super pleased. These were some of the best runs I've had with her yet. It sounds crazy but I think my engine is finally breaking in. I didn't know how many hours were on it prior to me getting it but it has left grey matter on my covering until today and boy did it run great. I didn't try for inverted tody but it's coming.
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Once you get the lazy 8"s down it will all seem too easy. Your repair looks great. H^^
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I got er up on er back and flew about three or four laps before I crashed it again. I know it's all part of the show but it's kinda annoying. I had to pull the rest of the wing out and am begining the repairs. It's pretty bad off but it'll go back together.
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I got er up on er back and flew about three or four laps before I crashed it again. I know it's all part of the show but it's kinda annoying. I had to pull the rest of the wing out and am begining the repairs. It's pretty bad off but it'll go back together.
Nathan,
Sorry to hear that. What exactly is it you're doing?
Maybe you should bring more than one model to the field, or set your van up for "instant, on the spot, repairs."
Two down and two more to go! Here's my Flite Streak with the second wing panel doped. Took the shot while the dope was still wet.
Charles
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That's awesome Charles. I don't have another 40"+ model. Thats why I am building another FS LOL. I have a junior that needs some repairs and a 1/2A that I do not like but no other big boys. On the field repairs don't exactly work with broke off wings lol. I had to pull the wing outta the fuse to get at this break. I'll get her back together in a day or two. Flying inverted is a bit.. I got out of the manuever and flew it about three laps the first one was just to try and get it settled then I tried to bring it out and didn't put enough control into it and it ended up behind my head and I flew it up stairs for a lap and then I brought it back down to try and get it off its back and the wind gave it a good push and I wasn't able to save it. We had a super bad corner because of the wind and I shouldn't have even tried it but hey it's all about learning so I don't mind wrecking my stuff if I am making progress. I can't stand wrecking cause of dumb stuff like hitting a rut on takeoff and the model coming in on you and then it bounces nd pulls the handle out of your hand and then does a wing over by itself and pummels itself into the ground. That peeves me off but not a manuever that ends in pieces that is just part of the game.
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Nathan,
Someone cuts Flite Streak kits.
Possibly they would just make a wing kit or two. You may be needing them.
Yeah Baby!
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I'm putting it back together, it's gonna take some time though. I'm also erning where to bolster the airframe. I would suggest using some hardwood inserts in the spar top and bottom caps from one side of the center sheeting to the other. If I remember you re using a one piece leading edge which is probably stronger than my two piece but I'm inserting hardwood doublers in the leading edge as well. It's all learning and I love learnin.
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I'm putting it back together, it's gonna take some time though. I'm also erning where to bolster the airframe. I would suggest using some hardwood inserts in the spar top and bottom caps from one side of the center sheeting to the other. If I remember you re using a one piece leading edge which is probably stronger than my two piece but I'm inserting hardwood doublers in the leading edge as well. It's all learning and I love learnin.
Nathan,
The cost of an education.
Remember, no matter what they say, no matter what you read, when it comes time, you are the one that's doing it.
I don't see anybody at my door holding my hand, you?
My silk job? it'll probably come off in flight.
I haven't put the rudder on yet. I was going to leave it off because someone said they lost there's in flight and they had greater line tenson without it.
Holding the rudder gave me an idea for a scheme. So, I'm working on the Flite Streak today.
One wing left to silk and dope.
Photos of your wreck?
Charles
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Charles I would not omit the rudder. The plane was designed with it. If it was not needed I am sure the George would have omitted it. Due to decreased engine weight and increased power added to adjustable leadouts and weight boxes the need for lots of rudder offset have diminished;however, I would not start with no rudder. I would simply apply less offset. I am not feeling up to pictures of this mess lol. I'll be posting mainly pictures of the progress on the second FS rather than the pieces of the one I'm flying.
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I'm putting it back together, it's gonna take some time though. I'm also erning where to bolster the airframe. I would suggest using some hardwood inserts in the spar top and bottom caps from one side of the center sheeting to the other. If I remember you re using a one piece leading edge which is probably stronger than my two piece but I'm inserting hardwood doublers in the leading edge as well. It's all learning and I love learnin.
HI Nathan,
You know what they about when you quit learning............. ;D
Just remember, bolster up the area of repair, but you cannot make it "crash proof". Just try and make good solid repairs with out adding too much weight.
Bill
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I'm trying to be conscious of the weight but I am tired of the wing breaking so close to the fuse. If I can beef it up in that area so that it will break further out then it will be easier to repair. Oh did I mention that I am getting a 4-2 break out of my OS that is a hoot.
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Wish I was there to help you in person. Learning to fly by yourself can be a pain as I did that years and years ago. One secret I was for learning invert flying was to lay my hand on its back, I am right handed, if the plane got ahead of me, I would stop moving the hand and the plane would come backover in an outside loop by itself. Once you get over the fear of the ground then you start working on getting the handle verticle. H^^
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You say you have a 1/2A plane? Is it capable of inverted flight? If so, use it to learn then switch to the larger model. That is how I taught my son to fly inverted after he wrecked 3 larger planes. He used a Brodak Wildcat without landing gear. A 1/2 Flite Streak would be even better. Flown over grass crashes are usually a non-event with 1/2A models, a good thing when you are learning. 8)
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Any of them, but especially the 1/2A, will teach you what you need to learn about inverted flight by using ~10' lines and just swinging it around. I learned a lot with a 1/2A "Half Fast" back in Jr. High, 50+ years ago, especially not to believe my two older brothers. Just don't attempt to make more than 15-30 sec. flights, or you'll fall on your beak. y1 Steve
PS: I'm pretty sure that you can buy a complete wing kit for any Brodak kit, plus the plans include enough info to build the whole model from fresh scratch. Sometimes, that's easier. Also, a good way to fix stuff is to slip it back together straight and neat, hit all the breaks with CA, and then cut out the seriously broken areas and splice in new wood. I kinda like spruce spar doublers, run out several rib bays and tapered over at least one rib bay.
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Nathan,
Where the hell are ya!
This Post has been idle for way to long.
Got my Flite Streak silked, all four panels! only 400 coats of dope, but who's counting. Weight box too! ;D
Still without the tail. Much easier and less costly to ship this way, I may sell it when completed. The buyer can apply the tail.
Colors anyone?
Charles