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Author Topic: black carbon fiber mat  (Read 2589 times)

Offline Ironbomb

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black carbon fiber mat
« on: February 19, 2006, 06:17:41 AM »
I am ready to begin to apply the silkspan to the fueselage of this project, and am thinking about using fiber mat instead. I have seen pics of the black mat that others are using. I have some, and I want to know what advantages there are using it over silk span. My first guess would be strength, since it seems tougher to tear it that span.

I am also wondering about how easy it is or how much it would take to fill it. Looks a bit course to me.

Would I apply it like silkspan, and finish/fill it like silkspan?

I am plannning on using nitrate dope for the base, and butyrate for the top coats.

thanks for any advice

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Offline RC Storick

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2006, 07:10:20 AM »
I use .02 CF Mat. It fills in 3 coats. Apply like silk span. Do not sand until you have at least 3 coats or until it becomes shinny. Great stuff. Can be bought in bulk cheaply for AERO Space Composites. Link found on Stunt Hangar home page. http://www.stunthanger.com/building/Links.htm bottom right of page
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Offline peabody

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2006, 06:00:02 AM »
There are several that believe that relying on dope shrinkage when using CF (it is inert) does not offer structural strength....
Silkspan shrinks as it dries and affords some structural advantage.
CF seems very "hard" when used with dope, but its hardness is nothing when comparing silkspan applied with water soluable poluurethane.....
Just thoughts
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2006, 06:58:49 AM »
I would probably agree on that. I will have to ask someone who has better knowledge of this subject. I am glad you brought this up as I was going to do my Satona in just CF although not before asking the man who designed it.

Randy Smith maybe he can answer this question.
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Offline peabody

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2006, 07:40:53 AM »
I am going to do the SV that I am fooling with in CF stuck with poly....really hard....
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Offline Ironbomb

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2006, 09:19:28 AM »
Quote from: peabody on February 20, 2006, 06:00:02 AM
There are several that believe that relying on dope shrinkage when using CF (it is inert) does not offer structural strength....
Silkspan shrinks as it dries and affords some structural advantage.
CF seems very "hard" when used with dope, but its hardness is nothing when comparing silkspan applied with water soluable poluurethane.....
Just thoughts

Peabody, are you talking about something like Minwax Acrylic Polyurethane Clear?

Gloss or Satin?

This is geting complicated.  ???  How does Butyrate stick to the acrylic poly? Aint that stuff heavy? I put some on my window trim  after staining, looks great after 6 years, didnt dope it tho.

I'm just trying to step up on my airplanes appearance.   

No no, nitrate is a new step for me, I'll do that first.

Thanks for the advice, I think  ;)

naa, really, thanks you guys

Greg





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Offline peabody

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2006, 10:22:27 AM »
Greg...yup....that's the stuff...I use semigloss because I use it on projects around the house here.

You can certainly paint anything over it, once it dries (fairly quickly)...clean up is easy (soap and water) and it doesn't stink up the house real bad....
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2006, 10:29:28 AM »
Hi Greg

People seem to like the CF mat  not because it adds so much strenght over  silkspan, but  because it seems  to add  more stiffness.Both products  (silkspan and cf mat) will  add  both.
Some people put this on with either butyrate or nitrate (nitrate will stick better)  some  use  77 spray to attach  then use dope. and  other  have  used a very very thin film of slow cure epoxy finish resin to stick it down , and after it cures they cover it with about 3 coats of dope then sand smooth

Many differant techniques , so just use what you like


Randy
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Offline peabody

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2006, 11:20:13 AM »
Something that works great is to mix a little bit of the Zinc Sterate that Randy sells with the stuff that you use to stick it with....works great!
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Offline Ironbomb

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2006, 11:52:59 AM »
OK you guys, I'm beginning to see the light. I will try some test pieces to see what I like best. Very good.  This is good stuff  :)

more when I have something to report

Greg
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2006, 11:22:41 PM »
A few corrections. The Minwax stuff you want is the water based PolyCrylic, not their conventional stuff, which is thinned with mineral spirits/paint thinner and cleanup with the same. You won't like the regular stuff for this purpose.

Sparky said .02 CF, but slipped a decimal. You will find .2 oz/sq. yard, .3 oz, and .5 oz, but you will not find .02 oz. FWIW, Steve
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 07:18:40 PM »
HI Greg,
I've used a lot of the .2 oz CF from Randy Smith.  It is a little bit easier to conform to curves and such than some other "brands" which are rather 'stiff'.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2006, 07:09:57 PM »
Somebody is missing the boat here.  I have never used carbon fiber over silkspan or vice versa.  It is either one of the other, not both on same surface.  Also I beleive water base poly-u is easier to work with and takes less material.   DOC Holliday
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Offline Ironbomb

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Re: black carbon fiber mat
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2006, 07:38:12 PM »
Quote from: jeholliday on March 19, 2006, 07:09:57 PM
Somebody is missing the boat here.  I have never used carbon fiber over silkspan or vice versa.  It is either one of the other, not both on same surface.  Also I beleive water base poly-u is easier to work with and takes less material.   DOC Holliday

Nope, not "over" the silkspan. My bad, I read my first post, and I see where I didnt clarify very good at all. I have already gotten the mat applied to the wood where the silkspan will touch using nitrate dope.  No silkspan applied yet. I have a pic on the other Carbon mat topic.

I did not to use the poly-u for the first time on this plane. I'll have to try it out on something less important first.

Greg


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