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Author Topic: bf 109 inst panel  (Read 3461 times)

Offline Mark Scarborough

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bf 109 inst panel
« on: November 21, 2007, 01:44:13 PM »
Thought I would post some pictures of my bf 109 in progress. I have been deliberating about how to do the panel. It is buried behind the canopy but still can be seen. Nothing like a bubble canopy mustang,  but still needs to be there. What I came up with is I did a google image search for "instruments bf 109 " Then I scaled the resulting picture to the size I needed. I should mention I found the perfect picture. straight on restored panel. I printed it on glossy photo paper. the panel has two panels and upper and a lower. So that means two copies. I cut them and stuck them to 3/32 balsa and trimmed it carefully. Then I used a black sharpie pen to color the edges. the pictures show the results better than I can describe them
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2007, 01:52:42 PM »
Mark,

That's pretty slick. Can't wait to see the final product. Are you going to use chromate green for the side panels?
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2007, 01:58:49 PM »
Wellllll
chromate green actually wasnt used much from what I can tell most of the picts I have seen indicate more gray. chromate actually doesnt hold up real well to constant fondling so in a lot of cases while its corrosion resistance was desirable, they appeared tobe topcoated. However, expectations of viewers are to typically see chromate. once I make the throttle quadrants and such, I will probably decide to go grey except on the stuff, seat quadrant,, I dont really know it will be a surprise.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2007, 12:14:17 AM »
Hi Mark,

Looking good!  The Luftwaffe used a gray coating on their planes and not the zinc chromate yellow/green we are accustomed to on US aircraft. 

Britain used another colour ("u" for the British among us! ;D ) altogether and the Japanese used a bamboo blue/green colored translucent coating.  I used to replicate the Japanese coating with a silver base and a mix of candy blue with some green added sprayed over it.  That was 35 or so years ago on the IPMS Contest trail! LOL!! LL~ LL~

Even our own usage of ZC changed colors from the '30s through the end of WWII from an almost yellow to a darker chartreuse.
Big Bear <><

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Offline Rob Killick

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2007, 03:14:38 PM »
Hi Mark ,

The interior colours of the Bf 109 varied throuhout WW2 .
The initial Luftwaffe standard  colour (from , say 1939 to 1942) was RLM 02 . A kind of tan , grey/green .
After 1942 , the interior colours changed to RLM 66 (black grey), albeit the wheel wells and engine compartment remained the standard RLM 02 .
You might be able to Google an RLM colour charts and see what you can come up with ?

All the best  y1
Rob Killick , MAAC 33300

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2007, 04:04:00 PM »
Thanks for the color input guys. I have done some research, were I creating  a total scalemodel, I would be far far more concerned. However, My greatest concern is to try within reason to be accurate and then second is to make the model "present" well as a bf 109. It is after all a PA stunt model first. I have googled for RLM colors and really had NO luck. I want to find a color chart so when I paint the exterior I can endevour to be more accurate. Unlike mustangs and such, there is no precedent to use air race color schemes. I  have a pretty cool scheme in mind for it that I found. If anyone has any ideas on finding an RLM color chart I would be much obliged
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2007, 07:26:29 PM »
Well I got the interior and pilot done, the canopy done. I built up the frames for the canopy with 1/8 balsa capped with 1/64 ply then installed the "glass" on that. turned out ok, Best part, that rascally pilot cant escape now! hes trapped forever, hehehe, I dint put in a canopy release!


first two pictures just the frames, last picture  is hard to tell, but it has the "glass"installed. It will look better when the outside of the frame is painted instead of the wood showing.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2007, 10:20:54 PM »
Mark,

Are you just going to paint on the outside or adding additional framing?
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 11:39:01 PM »
Randy,
Man the longer I look at it the more I want to go nuts , yeah I have been contemplating doing something more so I can replicate the fasteners and such. In reality what I have been planning is to mask the framing with good vinyl tape and use a slurry of epoxy and microballoons. This will server two purposes, one is to build up the exterior framework. The other is to fill and lock in the individual panels of plastic used to form it all. End result if I pull it off will be exterior framing and sealed solid canopy that should never leak. Added bonus, my pilot cant escape when he sees who will actually be flying him around! LL~
I really think I need to build a scale plane to feed this rivet and panel line fetish I feel coming on. I HAVE to remember this is a stunt ship first and only intended to look like a scale ship sorta,,,,,, sigh,, I have even been thinking of how cool it would be to weather it, not that I could ever come up to Ron BUrns standards.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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AMA 842137

Offline Bill Little

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2007, 08:17:05 AM »
Hi Mark,

That is very, very nice work!  H^^

The epoxy/micro balloons idea works.  I have done it and was pleased!  And I was doing it for the same reasons. ;D

I like to use a plasric model to locate panel lines and details, which I am sure most everyone does.  There were TONS of really neat looking paint schemes for the BF-109s, and some were, as you know, quite colorful! 

I see a definite Scale Stunt undertone to your writings.  :o  So I would go ahead and use some of your ideas on this one and continue to add techniques with each plane you build.  Next thing you know, you will have models to rival the looks of Ron's and Al's!  Practice, practice, practice.  Just like flying, until you really get it down to your liking at which point it is second nature.

Big Bear <><

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AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2007, 11:02:05 PM »
Thanks for the comments guys!
I so want to go all out. I do have to keep in mind its a STUNTER first and the scale details are a bonus. I first need a ship that will fly and look the part.  Second come all the details. I will make a final decision on the level of detail as the completion comes along and I see where I am at more with regards to weight. Bill its nice to know I am not breaking new ground with my idea on the canopy and microballoons. I have deliberated about it and your comments definetly lend support to the direction I was heading. I am fitting the engine and nose block now, then its on to the horizantal stab and elevator and controls. then the wing joins company. So far weight looks ok. The wing is totally framed and with the exception of the flaps and tips its sitting at 9.4 oz, thats a 637 sq inch wing. the fuse is right at 8 oz, still needs cowling. The rudder and vertical stab are built and are .6 oz. Power is a SSW Magnum .53.
I  attached a pict of the scheme I am looking at using. Found the picture courtesy of Google images search. It has lots of color and shouldnt blend into the background like some camo schemes. The colors for the splinter pattern are going to be the grey on grey. I will probably take some liberties with the color to make it more "marketable" since its a stunter, were it pure scale I would definetly be more painstaking about exact color matchs.
The one thing I am struggling with now is to find a spinner that works. Its 2.25 diameter as designed but I cant find the correct profile. I may resort to building one myself out of composites.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2007, 12:05:57 AM »
Hi Mark,

I just completed the cockpit of my plane, then I looked at yours and I just cried!  HB~>

Mark's, Beautiful work of ART! ........ Rudy's, hokey comes to mind. I think I will just paint over my canopy and hide my amateur attempt at a cockpit!  n~

Well done Mark. You are soon going to have Windy and Howard looking over their shoulders!  y1

If you still need it, I have the RLM color chart. Just send me an email with your address and I will mail it to you. :-)

Regards,  H^^
Rudy
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2007, 12:10:59 AM »
Mark definately came up with some neat ideas for the cockpit. And he is definately better than me at pilot painting. Mine always look like cartoon characters. Guy is pretty good for an intermediate flyer.  :)
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2007, 01:31:05 AM »
Thanks Randy and Rudy,
what is it one of the guys on here says, even a blind hog finds an acorn. I guess I am lucky enough to not know "how its done" sometimes so I have to figure it out some how some way.
Rudy, I would definetly still use the RLM chart, I will PM you with my address and as soon as the beast is done, I will make the revisions to the drawings so they are build able if your still interested? I think there is plenty of room for electric stuff too.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2007, 03:44:06 AM »
Hi Mark,

WILCO on the RLM chart, please see my PM. YES on the plans, thanks! :-)
Rudy
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Offline Rob Killick

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2007, 06:07:11 PM »
Hi Mark ,

Nice work on the canopy framing .
By the looks of the small triangular glass panel in the lower/front of the canopy , it looks like it's going to be an E , or early F variant ?
I'd personally like to see the type of spinner you propose ...

Rob K.
Rob Killick , MAAC 33300

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2007, 07:57:05 PM »
Rob,
Yes it is to replicate an E model. My profile version is more along the lines of an F with the rounded tips. The spinner is really a problem. The airplane was originally equipped with both a spinner that accomodated proficision for the cannon, flat nose, and without provision for the cannon. In any case, there exists no spinner that I have found that comes close to matching the profile with the exception of the Tru-Turn FAI spinner. Its not really the right shape but close to representing the pointed nose version. My thoughts are to create a mold complete with inner and outer  tooling. Using an aluminum machined backplate with a step machined in it to recieve the back edge of the  spinner cone would be fairly important to the success. I am contemplating a mounting system typical of the Froom (?) style spinner. That being the spinner cone would be a simple cone without the tip, but having a shoulder moulded into it. An aluminum nut would finish the shape and also be used to secure the cone to the backplate by threading onto the end of the crank. I dont have the machining skills to pull this off but I think I can probably find someone who can do it for me. The composit portion of the spinner shouldnt be that tough  to do just requireing some carefull work in creating the mold parts. Ideally I would love them to be machined from aluminum and that would allow me to compress the composite into the mold to form the part as the resins cured. Still contemplating the best way to do this. An alternative is to have the cone machined from aluminum for use as is. Again the problem arises in finding someone capable to do this without it costing me a fortune. Clearly this is the one major hurdle I have remaining. I am tempted to use the FAI spinner for the time being if a solution does not present itself
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
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Offline Rob Killick

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2007, 08:15:56 PM »
Hi Mark ,

Not to worry bout the cropped spinner ...

Many Bf 109 E's had a pointed spinner , when the engine mounted cannon was deleted .
It's still a different shape , but doesn't detractfrom the look of the A/C .
Rob Killick , MAAC 33300

Offline Leo Mehl

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2008, 02:41:39 PM »
Are you sure that pilot is not Dutch. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ HB~> Looking good my friend. As far as how long this plane will last. I think your flying will be a lot better this year so I wouldn't worry about it. You are gonna doooooo gooood! HH%% HH%%

Offline Bill Little

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2008, 03:38:51 PM »
Hi Mark,

While I was revisiting some posts, I thought of something for next time.

For dash panels, I use three layers plus the instruments.  Your photo copy is perfect for the instruments.  For the back layer I use 1/64th ply.  The instruments are glued to that.  I use thin clear plastic, anytype will do, just find some really thin stuff.  A piece of this covers everything (glass faces on teh instruments!) The top layer is either 1/64th ply or thin plastic.  Whatever I grab.  I put a copy of the instruments on this with rubber cement and cut out the holes where the instruments go.  Spray it the necessary color and finally glue this layer in place.  You can take a bit of silver paint and run around the inside of the hole on the last layer if a chrome bezel is desired (but not on a War Plane! LOL!!)

I still think the Swiss paint scheme is perfect for a stunt plane. y1
Big Bear <><

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AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2008, 04:14:12 PM »
Leo, thanks for the vote of confidence, I garauntee I will be flying my profile P-40 for winter warmups before this one sees its first flight!

Bill,
yep good idea on the panel. Had similar thoughts along that line as well but just decided on this one to go simple. As for the swiss scheme, did I mention that I have a profile 109 already built and in CF veil? I built it last winter but then after stuffing the Qship at the first contest with my nice paint work, I decided that no more painted airplanes for a year! to many hours and then I had nothing to fly till Pat and Scott R stepped in and donated an ARF so I would at least have a plane. So it has been sitting there for almost a year waiting finish. I have actually been looking at the swiss scheme for the profile, they had one with recognition stripes not unlike our invasion stripes only red and white. thought that one would really be a standout!
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Bill Little

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2008, 05:12:54 PM »
Leo, thanks for the vote of confidence, I garauntee I will be flying my profile P-40 for winter warmups before this one sees its first flight!

Bill,
yep good idea on the panel. Had similar thoughts along that line as well but just decided on this one to go simple. As for the swiss scheme, did I mention that I have a profile 109 already built and in CF veil? I built it last winter but then after stuffing the Qship at the first contest with my nice paint work, I decided that no more painted airplanes for a year! to many hours and then I had nothing to fly till Pat and Scott R stepped in and donated an ARF so I would at least have a plane. So it has been sitting there for almost a year waiting finish. I have actually been looking at the swiss scheme for the profile, they had one with recognition stripes not unlike our invasion stripes only red and white. thought that one would really be a standout!

Hi Mark,

That is the scheme I used.  A LOT of red and white on the fuselage and wings in those stripes.  It really helped me, since the plane was otherwise camo, to see it against the trees.  It was a Classic Jack Sheeks D-Tube plane, I will try to find some pictures. I built it over 15 years ago, doesn't SEEM that long!

Now, I am building all my planes like they may be the last one I get to build, so I am working on some details that are quick but look good.
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2008, 05:15:47 PM »
Interesting you should mention that, I just got a copy of FLying Models magazine with his classic legal 109 in it! I was looking at that, hm perhaps the NW regionals will unveil a covy of 109 fighters for all classes of competition? who is to say.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2008, 05:54:50 PM »
Looks great! It's been a little while, how's the rest of it coming Mark?
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bf 109 inst panel
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2008, 07:18:12 PM »
progress is coming along, ,or um progressing?  I have had lots of details to deliberate about, things I hadnt thought out quite well enough. I had to tweak the rudder post on the fuse because my horn wouldnt clear it thus limiting my elevator movement. making pushrods, on and on, just little details. I did get everything silkspanned and in dope. three to four coats on everything so far. I did some weight calcs, as it stands now, I think I everything Is adding up to about 46 oz total , this includes the parts all silkspanned. This should give me a budget of about 8 oz or so to complete the finish from this point. I think I am looking pretty good! considering its already mostly covered and filled at this point. Just have to behave myself and not get carried away on filler. Tonight I just got the wing aligned and joined, actually came back to check email before dinner then I plan on flopping the horizantal on it. Would have had it done last night but I was fighting it and decided to just walk away for the rest of the night, I wasnt "feelin' the love" tonight it kinda just went swoosh and lined up just right. I gotta tell you I am pretty pleased so far. I think it has the feel without being totally scale. Once I get it on its wheels the first time I will post some more pictures. perhaps if things go well tonight I can get the gear fitted the rest of the way. Still deliberating about the spinner. I have someone who has offered to try to machine me either a spinner and backplate or molds to fab carbon fiber spinners. Part of the decision process is whether or not I will make more than one spinner. Like say if somebody else wanted them? Or I build another one. The spinner is a different profile than anything I have seen before on the market and without the right profile it jsut wouldnt look right to me. Thing is, where do you stop worrying about scale details and just make the thing fly? I am really exploring my capabilities here,biggest project so far. Oh I started to say, I have a target weight of 55  oz all up. So far so good. I think 640 inchs of wing, at 55 oz with the Magnum 53 will just be happy as a clam!
thanks for the comments and questions , hows the PBY coming along?
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137


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