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Author Topic: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues  (Read 3137 times)

Offline roger

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bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« on: May 11, 2007, 04:11:21 PM »
 :! how dose one figure which hole to use to put in my control rod hole#1
                                                                                         hole #2
                                                                                         hole #3
and then in my bell crank same thing.
please help

roger

Offline John Miller

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2007, 04:45:59 PM »
Hi Roger, I can feel your pain.

If you're planning on a sport flier, rather than a Stunter, You can use the middle hole on the bellcrank if you like faster controls. Most of us stunt types use the hole closest to the pivot point  (Inside) to slow the controls down. The pushrod should attache at the top hole in the flap horn. The pushrod for the elevator should attache in the hole right under where the pushrod from the bellcrank attached. You can move the atachment point at the elevator horn to adjust the amount of turn you want, or get.

Best wishes,

John Miller
Getting a line on life. AMA 1601

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2007, 10:03:17 PM »
If you're uncertain, use the maximum output hole on the bellcrank, this will give you a lot of pushrod movement.

Then you can use as tall a control horn as needed to get the degrees of movement you need.  The BC is built into the wing, so you only get one easy shot at that decision.  Assuming the control horn is external, you can fiddle with that end later. 

If you "go stingy" at the bellcrank and don't have enough throw, there's no easy way to get it back.
Paul Smith

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2007, 10:18:34 PM »
I saw your title and wondered how a verse of the Bellcrank Control Horn Blues would go.

Got a stiff pushrod, went to hook it up to the ball.
Got a stiff pushrod, went to hook it up to the ball.
Then I found another mule was kickin' in my stall.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2007, 10:42:54 AM »
Got up this mornin', went to fly me some stunt.
Got up this mornin', went to fly me some stunt.
But my control horn wore out, and my plane commenced to hunt.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 10:51:35 AM »
Howard,,
Ok so last year it was the Belly dancers, this year its poetry? whats next a VW buss with peace signs on it and a phsycadelic paint scheme for your impact? May I suggest Hibiscus blossoms interlaced on the wings?

 LL~
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Bill Little

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2007, 11:22:50 AM »
I think Howard needs to tie dye his silkspan..............
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2007, 12:28:04 PM »
gnarley  idea dude 8) 8)
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 02:21:54 PM »
My baby she told me, "Your squares make me wanna barf."
My baby she told me, "Your squares make me wanna barf."
I been so 'buked and scorned, I might go buy myself an ARF.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline John Miller

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 02:38:22 PM »
"A bellcrank's a bad thing,
a fickle thing that'll lead you to sing,
The Bluuuuueeeeeeesss.

Howard, have you statrted wearing that glass ring on your flying hand?  Mmmm. slide control on the linesssss.
Getting a line on life. AMA 1601

Offline Ward Van Duzer

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 02:40:57 PM »
Go Howard! Some of us are with you...  n~
I hate spelling errors, you mess up 2 letters and you are urined!

Don't hesitate to ask dumb questions.
They are easier to handle than dumb mistakes!  Ward-O AMA 6022

Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2007, 07:47:16 PM »
Gee Howard,

There's no need to "Rush" from line to line you know...... LL~

Jim Pollock,  Comedian????? **)

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2007, 08:30:55 PM »
Gonna play me the blues, ain't articulate 'nough for hip-hop or rap.
Gonna play me the blues, ain't articulate 'nough for hip-hop or rap.
But I'll fly me some stunt with my articulated flap. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 10:30:08 PM by Howard Rush »
The Jive Combat Team
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 08:36:33 PM »
Mike Keville sent me the following and asked me to submit it here:

Lookin' so poor that I started to sweat . . .
Lookin' so poor that I started to sweat . . .
(like that Okie who's said to out-score ol' Brett.)
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 10:27:17 PM »
Blues later. Back to the original question. Consider your basic math skills from Jr. High. Specifically, Ratios!

Ideally, you'd like to have at least 3" spacing at the handle, with 4" being better. If you use a 4" bellcrank and a 4" handle spacing, you've got 1:1 at this stage. Then, take a look at your elevator horn selection. Say you have a 1" horn you can use. If your 4" bellcrank also has a hole at 1", and you used it, you'd still have 1:1 control ratio. That means you'd get 10 degrees elevator for 10 degrees of wrist motion.

This would probably too much (sensitive). So, look for a hole in the BC at .625"/.75" or somewhere in there.  If your model has flaps, then you might have a longer flap horn, say 1.25" to the top hole. With a bit of calculating, you can figure out what you'll get with the various holes on the bellcrank. Then, there's the flap to elevator horn hole selection...well, if the next lower hole on the flap horn is at 1", then if you used that 1" elevator horn, you'd have 1:1 flap/elevator, which is fine if your model is on the 'stout' side. You'd want to use a longer elev. horn for a heavy model, and a shorter horn for a lighter model. Best bet is to use an adjustable horn on the elevator, of course.

The main thing to remember is that you can actually calculate and predict the results pretty well, and if you find a set of ratios you like, sticking with it makes things easier with new models. So, keep notes on your control system's ratios, make modifications in a logical way, and when you find something that suits you, stick with it.   D>K Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Bruce Perry

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2007, 10:44:54 PM »
There I was, old handle in my hand
There I was, old handle in my hand
With Billy, Bobby and the rest of the band.

Offline Bruce Perry

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2007, 10:47:18 PM »
We was strummin and Hummin the stunt flier blues
We was strummin and Hummin the stunt flier blues
We sat around singin headlines from stunt news

Oh baby.....

Offline Bruce Perry

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2007, 10:49:23 PM »
The party started to rock with PW and Howie
The party started to roll with PW and Howie
Then their purple VW went ker POWIE...

Oh lawd yeah

Offline Bruce Perry

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2007, 10:55:19 PM »
We got , PW & Howie there's  Billy and Bobby
We got , PW & Howie there's  Billy and Bobby
We're all hammered and silly in a' lobby....

Sing it with me now.....

Offline Bruce Perry

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2007, 10:57:41 PM »
Boeings buying drinks, The expense card is out
Boeings buying drinks, The expense card is out
Too bad really, the stunt guys passed out.

Say it aint so my sister.....

Offline Bruce Perry

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2007, 11:02:58 PM »
and that my stunt flying friends is how
and that my stunt flying friends is how
the stunt flying blues EEENNNDSSS!!!!!

Thank you, thank you very much we're in the Crystal room 'till Saturday.  Tell your friends the "Cross border, crossed lines, Heavy weight blues brothers, Dr. Howie "Blues" Rush, and "Downtown" Donnie B Perry"  Are in town and ready to rock!

Offline Bruce Perry

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2007, 11:03:55 PM »
Howard,

Zat what you want'd?

Donnie B

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2007, 11:08:43 PM »
You are getting some conflicting advice.  I'd recommend looking at your old statics book.  For a given control surface hinge moment, the farther from the axis the pushrod is, the less the force on the pushrod and the less the effect of control looseness (verse 2 above), which is a problem if you don't use ball links (verse 1 above). You are more likely to be size-limited on the bellcrank than the control horns, so I think I'd use big horns and set the axis-to-pushrod-hole distance an the bellcrank to allow full bellcrank movement for full control surface movement, which would minimize differential line tension, hence the difference in handle movement required for a given control deflection as a function of airspeed.  In my case, I have a 700-square-inch stunter with 4" bellcrank, flap horn holes 1.5" and 1" from the axis, and elevator horn hole .95" from the axis.  Flying it in the wind in Muncie on .015" 7-strand cables, I had to guess how much handle deflection to use for each square corner, resulting in verse 3 above.   One remedy was to use balance tabs on the flaps (verse 4 above).  Col. McClain has asked me to write a short monograph on the tabs for Stunt News, which I may do as soon as I figure out the mechanics of line bowing and stretch, at which I'm not going to look until I finish my new airplane:

Gotta go downstairs now and lay on some dope.
Gotta go downstairs now and lay on some dope.
Gonna finish my plane for the Nats, I hope.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline roger

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2007, 07:31:43 PM »
 %^@
ROGER

Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: bellcrankcontrolhorn blues
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2007, 11:39:08 PM »
Rog,

I don't sweat this thing, because I design and build my own bellcranks and horns to fit each individual model. (That is possible, btw. You just need an approach that you understand and trust...)

I DO check my analysis numbers against available parts, so if any fit I can save some work. Never seems to happen. I've been pleased with all the pieces I've knocked out for my stuff, but that's just me. I enjoy doing that side of things, so I'm probably easy to please...

To your specific question, you have a lot of good advice.
\BEST\LOU


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