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Author Topic: Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II  (Read 1387 times)

Offline Walter Johnson

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Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II
« on: January 23, 2007, 06:39:10 AM »
Just started to build the wing on a Randy Smith Tempest II Kit and if possible some suggestions on mounting the bellcrank and spar joining would be very helpfull. I have some ideas on this but I'm sure this will bring about several options any pictures or drawings would be great. Thank You Walt ???
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2007, 12:32:52 PM »
Just started to build the wing on a Randy Smith Tempest II Kit and if possible some suggestions on mounting the bellcrank and spar joining would be very helpfull. I have some ideas on this but I'm sure this will bring about several options any pictures or drawings would be great. Thank You Walt ???

Foam or built up wing?

Bill <><
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Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

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Offline Greg L Bahrman

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Re: Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2007, 10:01:36 PM »
This is on a Brodak Cardinal Profile. Top and bottom 1/16 ply. Ply attaches to ribs and along the spar. Center section sheeting goes over and attaches to the ply. Real common way to do it. Bellcrank pivot rod goes thru the ply top and bottom.
Greg Bahrman, AMA 312522
Simi Valley, Ca.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2007, 10:09:27 PM »
The plywood "tensioner spar/bellcrank mount" that Greg pictures is an excellent mount.

Bill <><
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Offline Walter Johnson

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Re: Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2007, 06:31:40 AM »
It is the built up rib wing Bill and Thank You Greg for the pictures of the bellcrank installation. One other question I have is the plans show a PSP bellcrank with the pushrod hole to the outboard side of the wing making the rear leadout the up line. I built my Trophy Trainer with the bellcrank hole facing the inboard with the front leadout being the up line. What are the advantages or not going either of these set ups. Thank You Walt ;)
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2007, 12:34:53 PM »
It has been "argued" that having the front line as the "Up" line, gives better control in some parts of critical maneuvers.  With the bellcrank in this orientation, "pull" on the line giving control can be more positive because of natural yaw tendencies of our models.


Mr. Al Rabe was the first proponent of this (AFAIK) and can explain it much better than I.

Bill <><
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Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2007, 05:05:18 PM »
Bill,

In case Al doesn't pick up on this one:

When he spread the word about UP-line forward, he was building large, very scale looking stunters - and using pretty large props.

The principle is that propellors act as flywheels to a significant extent. Flywheels are like gyroscopes. Gyroscopes demonstrate something called 'precession.' Set a gyroscope spinning and try to tilt its axis, axle, spindle (whatever you call it.) It moves as if you had pushed it 90° later in its direction of rotation.

At the RPMs we use, and the weights of our props, this can be a significant force. In 'ordinary' flight, with engine turning counter clockwise as we see it from the front, and with upright flight also counter clockwise, starting to rotate the model nose-up in pitch pushes the nose out, away from the center of the circle.

Think of pitching up as pushing back on the top of the prop disk. Seen from the handle, the upper half of a prop's rotation is away from the center. Precession makes this "push at the top" into a push at the outer edge of the disk, i.e., nose-out.

Same-same in reverse on pitching the model down - precession tends to yaw the nose in.

Up and down are not related to where the ground is: UP is where a pilot's head would be; and DOWN is toward his feet. Wherever the model is pointed...

We pass control forces to the model through the lines. Except for a few experimental over and under leadout setups, there's always some fore and aft distance between the up line leadout guide and that for the down line. The pull we feel acts on the model by aiming through the mid-point between leadout guides directly at the CG but this only applies when the pull on both lines is equal as in straight flight level or up a long straight maneuver track like wingovers or the diagonals in the hourglass.

When we put in control forces, the flaps and elevators meet airloads, and that shifts the mid-point of the pull force a bit toward the loaded line to overcome them. So, with CCW engine and CCW upright level flight, the nose wants to yaw out on up control. If the UP line is forward in that case, it shifts the middle of the total pull force a bit forward and tries to pull the nose in.

Same-same for DOWN - the loaded line should shift pull aft a bit to try to yaw the nose out while precession tries to push it in .

For the magnificent models Al Rabe has made for over 30 years, even that wasn't enough to overcome the "compromises" away from pure stunt layout (His scale model fuselages look HUGE compared to typical stunters...), so he also devised the Rabe rudder, which steers in the same manner as the counter-precession action from shifting pull.

And, if UP line is forward, we flip the bellcrank over (pushrod nearer the leadout guides), because that way the leadout cables can't possibly saw themselves apart.

Of course, if the flap horn were under the wing, and the elevator horn above the stabilizer, we could leave the bellcrank the way it was first used, 65 years ago by Jim Walker in a Fireball. He didn't have the stunting performance of our stunters, so the slight effect for a small,  overpowered, essentially right-side-up-ONLY model wasn't important.
\BEST\LOU

Offline Walter Johnson

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Re: Bellcrank Mounting Tempest II
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2007, 05:58:50 AM »
Thank You Lou, Fantastic explanation of the forces on our ships during flight. Since there appears to be no downside to the frontline being up that is how I will install the bellcrank. Thanks All Walt ;)
Take a spin.....You might like it.


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