Author Topic: 1/2A Snapper question (Read 12929 times)

frank carlisle · « **on:** October 23, 2006, 03:21:34 PM »

I just started bashing a 1/2A Snapper kit I got from Minnesota Modeler. Right now I'm assembling the wing but I'm not too sure about the bellcrank. So I set it in but haven't glued it yet. One concern is which way the bc goes and also the push rod position.
Here is a picture. Have I got it right? The wing is shown bottom side up.

Ron King · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:15:16 PM »

Frank,

Wish I could help, but I haven't built a Snapper since I was very young - maybe 1961 when I lived in Tulsa.

That bellcrank sure looks bigger than I remember and it's much farther back. We just used the typical sheet metal 1/2A units. But my memory bank is really empty.

Ron

Leester · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:23:44 PM »

Hey Frank: I do know one thing. That will definatley fit in your pick up.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2006, 05:59:46 PM »

Ron,
I will get it figured out. How did they fly for you?

Leester-----------ya think? Man this model is sooo little!!

Bill Little · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2006, 09:25:11 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on October 23, 2006, 05:59:46 PM

Ron,
I will get it figured out. How did they fly for you?

Leester-----------ya think? Man this model is sooo little!!

From a LA Heat to a 1/2A Snapper!!!!!!!1

Man, you've got it BAD!!!!!!!!!

By the way, I *stole* a Slob kit this weekend! Now I've got it BAD!!!!!!!!

Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2006, 03:43:59 AM »

You see Bill I have all these jelly jars with ready to spray dope in them. The dope would go sour if all my projects took year to do. So little planes between big planes. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

OOOOOh, a Bi-Slob!! Now you're in for some fun. Just remember it does more than just hover.

Ron King · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2006, 06:47:11 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on October 23, 2006, 05:59:46 PM

How did they fly for you?

For the most part, they flew better than we could.

The main problem we had was the doggone Atwood .049 engines we used wouldn't run worth a hoot. When they worked, we had fun, but....

Cox came along and blew them away with reliability and quality.

By that time, I had taken the advice of a friend and moved up to the Ringmaster / McCoy 35. "The bigger planes fly better" was what he told me and I never looked back.

Hope you enjoy the Snapper. It brings back lots of memories.

Ron

Bill Little · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2006, 03:44:47 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on October 24, 2006, 03:43:59 AM

You see Bill I have all these jelly jars with ready to spray dope in them. The dope would go sour if all my projects took year to do. So little planes between big planes. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

OOOOOh, a Bi-Slob!! Now you're in for some fun. Just remember it does more than just hover.

Hi Frank,

One thing that will help the dope to keep longer in the jelly jars is to put a square of tin foil over the top of the jar before you put the lid on. Just let it hang over the sides. It makes a good *gasket* to help it seal better.

I have seen many Bi-Slob flights. Now I am really in for it!

(BTW: the "Heat" looks GREAT!!!!!!!!)
Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #8 on:** October 24, 2006, 05:59:24 PM »

I'll try the tin foil Bill.

Did you get a kit Slob or ARF or ARC?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #9 on:** October 24, 2006, 06:02:09 PM »

Quote from: Ron King on October 24, 2006, 06:47:11 AM

For the most part, they flew better than we could.

The main problem we had was the doggone Atwood .049 engines we used wouldn't run worth a hoot. When they worked, we had fun, but.... Cox came along and blew them away with reliability and quality.

By that time, I had taken the advice of a friend and moved up to the Ringmaster / McCoy 35. "The bigger planes fly better" was what he told me and I never looked back.

Hope you enjoy the Snapper. It brings back lots of memories.

Ron

I'm going to put a Cox engine in my Snapper Ron. I'm glad to know they are a hoot!!

Bill Little · « **Reply #10 on:** October 24, 2006, 07:09:16 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on October 24, 2006, 05:59:24 PM

I'll try the tin foil Bill.

Did you get a kit Slob or ARF or ARC?

Hi Frank,

It is a kit. I guessed that a kit in the shrink wrap was worth $5........ ya think?

??

Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #11 on:** October 24, 2006, 07:17:18 PM »

Hi Frank,

It is a kit. I guessed that a kit in the shrink wrap was worth $5........ ya think?

??

Bill <><

Quote

Yeah Bill,
Five bucks would make it irrisistable. Now I'm not sure if you have a true slobber heart or just can't pass up a good (super) deal.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2006, 07:14:17 PM »

Frank,

The bellcrank is right...and the pushrod does come out the bottom of the wing. Didn't you get a copy of the original plan sheet? The profile view shows this. Maybe I forgot to put it in...

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2006, 07:22:01 PM »

Yes Ray, a copy of the original plan sheet was in the box and once I looked a little closer I got it all sorted out.
Man all the parts fit so nicely.........you re one hell of a kit maker. So far I have the wing built and the doublers glued to the fuselage sides. It's a quick build after putzing with the LA Heat for all these months.
Thanks Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2006, 07:44:18 PM »

It's a fun little plane (see mine below).

My question now is, Has anyone actually built that little Queen Bee for .020 that the plans were distributed for? I've got mine nearly finished, I'll post a pic when it's done. Cute little guy, sure looks small even for an .020. I'm thinking maybe 12' lines--in my back yard!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2006, 08:33:21 PM »

Sturdy little plane too. The wood you picked for mine is great.
I'm starting to regret trading you all those Cox engines now.......the Snapper has me excited about 1/2A again. I still have a little batch of them though.

I'll watch for the Queen Bee. Never saw one.

Know what Ray?? I need a hot,hot Cox Black Widow .049 that I can put on a hollow log model and win next years Musciano contest here in Michigan with it. Is this something you can help me out with?

Here's another 1/2A model I've never seen anywhere except mine.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #16 on:** October 26, 2006, 09:02:46 PM »

Frank,
Where did you get the jelly jars?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2006, 09:36:38 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on October 26, 2006, 09:02:46 PM

Frank,
Where did you get the jelly jars?

I got the jelly jars at Kroger Groceries at Morross and Mack in Grosse Pointe. The very best thing about them is that they each came filled with strawberry preserves, grape jelly or orange marmelade. mmmmmmmm gooooood.
I like creamy peanut butter.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:20:20 AM »

Hi Frank,

I've seen a flying stop sign before, don't know if it's quite the same as yours or not. Gets some attention I bet!

The Queen Bee is a tiny little profile biplane, 11" span, for the PeeWee .020. I bought a pair of .020s through the classifieds, here or SSW and one of them is pretty good so I guess I came out OK on the deal. I'll post a pic as soon as it's done. And no, I'm not gonna kit it!

Re: the Black Widow, I have a couple but they're older and though they run OK neither one is a barnburner. Maybe some mix-n-match would work. Did you know the production Coxes have double-bypass sleeves? I may try one of those on the BW, now that I think about it, don't know if the port timing is different. And I've often wanted to drill out the venturi on one as big as it would go and run it on bladder pressure just to see...

Now see what you've done! Just what I need, another project.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2006, 04:27:13 AM »

Now that you've described the Queen Bee I'm pretty sure I saw one a few years ago at the Brodak Fly-In. Dan Banjock had it and flew it on about 10 or so foot lines. The model was so small it fit in the palm of his hand. It put meaning to the word miniscule.

It would be great if you can get a barnburner Cox put together. I was cleaning my shop the other day and found several Cox engines. I took a picture of one that I think is an 020. Is it?

Bill Little · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2006, 06:18:08 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on October 27, 2006, 04:27:13 AM

Now that you've described the Queen Bee I'm pretty sure I saw one a few years ago at the Brodak Fly-In. Dan Banjock had it and flew it on about 10 or so foot lines. The model was so small it fit in the palm of his hand. It put meaning to the word miniscule.

It would be great if you can get a barnburner Cox put together. I was cleaning my shop the other day and found several Cox engines. I took a picture of one that I think is an 020. Is it?

Hi Frank,

Dan's plane that I remember was a Baby Slob, compleate with a small shoe box for a carrying case! He used a .010 on it and it would do everything a real Slob would do.

Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2006, 07:00:59 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on October 27, 2006, 06:18:08 AM

Hi Frank,

Dan's plane that I remember was a Baby Slob, compleate with a small shoe box for a carrying case! He used a .010 on it and it would do everything a real Slob would do.

Bill <><

Now that you mention it Bill, I read somewhere that Dan's little plane was a Baby Slob. I watched him fly it that time and I was pretty underwhelmed by it's tinyness. Looking back now I should have had more appreciation for it. But- I didn't.
I have a different appreciation for 1/2A now though.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #22 on:** October 27, 2006, 08:21:53 AM »

Hey Frank,

Yup, that's a PeeWee .020. How's the compression on it? Big problem is getting glo heads--wish Mr. Galbreath made one for it!

The "Queen Bee" isn't a baby Bi-slob as far as I know. I'll get pictures soon.

--Ray

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2006, 08:45:54 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on October 27, 2006, 08:21:53 AM

Hey Frank,

Yup, that's a PeeWee .020. How's the compression on it? Big problem is getting glo heads--wish Mr. Galbreath made one for it!

The "Queen Bee" isn't a baby Bi-slob as far as I know. I'll get pictures soon.

--Ray

-

Good!! It's an 020. It doesn't turn over at all Ray. Of course othe than get it I haven't done anything with it. I do have two glow heads for it. I'm not sure if they light up or not.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Queen Bee.

I have today off and I had a choice of cleaning house or working on the Snapper. Here is a picture of the progress I've made on the Snapper so far today.

Bill Little · « **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2006, 09:58:26 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on October 24, 2006, 07:17:18 PM

Hi Frank,

It is a kit. I guessed that a kit in the shrink wrap was worth $5........ ya think???

Bill <><
Quote

Yeah Bill,
Five bucks would make it irrisistable. Now I'm not sure if you have a true slobber heart or just can't pass up a good (super) deal.

Honorable Mr. Carlisle,

I assure you that I have been a true Slobber at heart for years. I am just, finally, "coming out of the closet"!!!!!!!!!!!!

Happy Days are here again!

Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #25 on:** October 27, 2006, 11:02:22 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on October 27, 2006, 09:58:26 AM

Honorable Mr. Carlisle,

I assure you that I have been a true Slobber at heart for years. I am just, finally, "coming out of the closet"!!!!!!!!!!!!

Happy Days are here again!

Bill <><

Well O.K. Bill..........I'm happy now that you have reassured me and the Slobbin' Bretheren. Don't forget we're all in this together.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #26 on:** October 27, 2006, 01:28:45 PM »

Boy is it ever fun to start building a model one day and having it look like a whole airplane the next day.

I just took pix of the pushrod and the model as it sits at this moment.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #27 on:** October 27, 2006, 03:01:34 PM »

Lookin good Frank...you do beautiful work. After that monster twin, this must be like a vacation!

I do see one thing, however...you've planked the fuselage top right over where the prefabbed hatch is supposed to go. (From just forward of the wing to the nose). that's what those screw holes on the sides of the nose are for--to hold the hatch on. Idea being, access to the tank, as well as the upper mm bolts. I worked hard on that hatch! Don't tell me you're not gonna use it?!?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #28 on:** October 27, 2006, 03:26:39 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on October 27, 2006, 03:01:34 PM

Lookin good Frank...you do beautiful work. After that monster twin, this must be like a vacation!

I do see one thing, however...you've planked the fuselage top right over where the prefabbed hatch is supposed to go. (From just forward of the wing to the nose). that's what those screw holes on the sides of the nose are for--to hold the hatch on. Idea being, access to the tank, as well as the upper mm bolts. I worked hard on that hatch! Don't tell me you're not gonna use it?!?

--Ray

Of course I used the hatch Ray.....................You just did such a good job on it that it's hard to see. You do good work!!

And yes it is like a vacation building the Snapper after all these months working on the twin. I can actually move the Snapper around, flip it over-whatever, without hitting it on the ceiling or walls. And all the parts fit so well.
I wonder how the other guys that got one from you are doing with thiers?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #29 on:** October 27, 2006, 03:51:28 PM »

Oh wow...I owe you a big apology. Man, I do good work--even fooled me! I see I also described it wrong; yours was the first. On later kits I expanded the hatch to cover the tank area behind the firewall as well. I did worry about how much it weakened the structure, though...yours is stronger.

Haven't heard from the other purchasers of the kits; I imagine they went on their "to-build-someday" shelf and, like most of us, there they sit, waiting for "someday".

--Ray

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #30 on:** October 27, 2006, 04:20:22 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on October 26, 2006, 09:36:38 PM

I got the jelly jars at Kroger Groceries at Morross and Mack in Grosse Pointe. The very best thing about them is that they each came filled with strawberry preserves, grape jelly or orange marmelade. mmmmmmmm gooooood.
I like creamy peanut butter.

Frank, Now we know what you eat with your Wheaties, to keep your butt from flying away when holding onto the Heat(conditioning/ training)!Speaking of the Heat, where are you in its finishing stages?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #31 on:** October 27, 2006, 04:51:40 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on October 27, 2006, 03:51:28 PM

Oh wow...I owe you a big apology. Man, I do good work--even fooled me! I see I also described it wrong; yours was the first. On later kits I expanded the hatch to cover the tank area behind the firewall as well. I did worry about how much it weakened the structure, though...yours is stronger.

Haven't heard from the other purchasers of the kits; I imagine they went on their "to-build-someday" shelf and, like most of us, there they sit, waiting for "someday".

--Ray

Noapology required Ray.......you just do great work.

Well I missed tonights episode of the Simpsons putzing with this little puppy but now it's ready to cover. And this is where I put it on the to-do shelf till I get excited or someone (Wayne?) comes up with a cool paint scheme.
Thanks for making the kit for me Ray.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #32 on:** October 27, 2006, 05:08:35 PM »

Quote from: Richard Grogan on October 27, 2006, 04:20:22 PM

Frank, Now we know what you eat with your Wheaties, to keep your butt from flying away when holding onto the Heat(conditioning/ training)!Speaking of the Heat, where are you in its finishing stages?

That's my secret Richard.......PBJs are my comfort food. Gotta stay beefed up you know.

Here is a picture of the heat. See the Snapper on top of it? The wing on the Snapper is smaller than the stab on the Heat.!! I'm not sure when I'll get back to the Heat.. I'm a little airplaned out right now.

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #33 on:** October 27, 2006, 06:05:42 PM »

Frank,
Looks familiar.
Did you have a dream about the Space Shuttle "piggyback" configuration?
Roger

frank carlisle · « **Reply #34 on:** October 27, 2006, 06:13:39 PM »

Hey Roger!!

Nah, no dreams that just seemed like the logical place to put it.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #35 on:** October 27, 2006, 06:25:54 PM »

Lookin' very good, Frank. Don't forget to glue the LO guides down before you cover it!

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #36 on:** October 27, 2006, 06:35:00 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on October 27, 2006, 06:25:54 PM

Lookin' very good, Frank. Don't forget to glue the LO guides down before you cover it!

--Ray

Thanks Ray. I forgot about them.
Hey!! I see you tinted your windscreen. Did you use Rit Dye?
BTW the Snapper is 5 oz. as it sits.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #37 on:** October 27, 2006, 07:22:08 PM »

Actually I cut it out of a green plastic bottle! I figured If I was gonna go to the trouble of making it, I wanted it to be seen...but I also figured not many others would share my taste, so I made the kit-ones out of clear. If you're curious, they're made out of 2-liter pop bottles.

With tank, everything but finish? 5 oz. is about right, you should be able to put a finish on for just another 1/2 or 1 oz. I think mine is right at 5 1/2 oz. so you're right there. Looks like you may be sporting a little more power too, I'm using one of those $7 Cox specials like I got from you.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #38 on:** October 27, 2006, 07:48:11 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on October 27, 2006, 07:22:08 PM

Actually I cut it out of a green plastic bottle! I figured If I was gonna go to the trouble of making it, I wanted it to be seen...but I also figured not many others would share my taste, so I made the kit-ones out of clear. If you're curious, they're made out of 2-liter pop bottles.

With tank, everything but finish? 5 oz. is about right, you should be able to put a finish on for just another 1/2 or 1 oz. I think mine is right at 5 1/2 oz. so you're right there. Looks like you may be sporting a little more power too, I'm using one of those $7 Cox specials like I got from you.

--Ray

Pop Bottle!! who'da thought! I want my wind screen to show too. Tomorrow is grocery day so I'll select my beverage for the color of it's bottle.

Yup. 5 oz. with everything on it. I don't know about a half ounce finish though. I do like to paint. Right now I'm thinking yellow, black and red. Stripes and checkers. Something to dazzle 'em.

I don't even know what kind of engine I have for it. Cox for sure but which?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #39 on:** October 28, 2006, 12:32:22 AM »

My guess is a Black Widow. I'm not familiar with some of the Cox variations, like the Golden Bee, etc. but that's a BW tank. Plenty o'power for the Snapper!

Load the paint on, I still don't think you'll go over an ounce. It's a mighty small plane. I know it'll be a fantastic paint job, knowing you. I'm expecting to borrow some of the pics for my website...

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #40 on:** October 28, 2006, 05:37:25 AM »

I had that engine on a SkyRay and it went pretty good. Doesn't mayyer which Cox it is.
I'll load on the paint and I'll be honored if pix show up on your website.

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #41 on:** October 28, 2006, 06:49:20 AM »

The COX .049's went to dual bypasses some time around 1967 to get more power. The engine was known as the 290 which replaced the 190 with single bypass.
The engine was written up in MAN in June 1967 by Dale Kirn.
The 190 and 290 were the engines with a square lug on each side that keyed into the plastic body. I prefer the later design with a plastic backplate that requires a separate fuel tank.
Clancy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #42 on:** October 28, 2006, 07:17:15 AM »

Thanks for the info Clancy. Sounds to me like you know your Cox.

Can you tell us about U-Tronics?

Alan Hayes · « **Reply #43 on:** October 28, 2006, 06:41:56 PM »

Was the Snapper ever kitted? My first built up plane...late 60's...looked very similar.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #44 on:** October 28, 2006, 11:16:43 PM »

I offer my own kit of the Snapper, from the original plans, with a minor change or two structurally. Blame Frank, he talked me into it! $35.

--Ray
Minnesotamodeler
http://snipurl.com/9igp

frank carlisle · « **Reply #45 on:** October 29, 2006, 03:51:52 AM »

Quote from: Alan Hayes on October 28, 2006, 06:41:56 PM

Was the Snapper ever kitted? My first built up plane...late 60's...looked very similar.

As Ray said he kits the Snapper. My Snapper was built from one of his kits. The kits are top notch and build into very nice models.

Alan Hayes · « **Reply #46 on:** October 29, 2006, 07:49:59 AM »

The kit I had looked like the Snapper. It had open cockpit, constant cord wing, in fuse mounted tank, but the biggest difference was the engine was mounted upright. If the original was kitted in the 60's was the upright mount an option? ......just trying to remember!

Must be an age thing?

Bill Little · « **Reply #47 on:** October 29, 2006, 07:57:39 AM »

Quote from: Alan Hayes on October 29, 2006, 07:49:59 AM

The kit I had looked like the Snapper. It had open cockpit, constant cord wing, in fuse mounted tank, but the biggest difference was the engine was mounted upright. If the original was kitted in the 60's was the upright mount an option? ......just trying to remember!

Must be an age thing?

Hi Alan,

The Snapper was kitted back inthe old days. Maybe Ambroid was the last ones to offer it? I don't remember.....

Sorry you couldn't make Huntersville, but Sunday was almost a wash out.

Bill <><

Alan Hayes · « **Reply #48 on:** October 29, 2006, 08:11:01 AM »

Hey Bill,

It may have been an old Ambroid kit. Harold Bunning from Greenboro kitted three 1/2's in that time period and it may have been one of his.

Wish I could remember. It would be nice to build another...just to have. It was the first plane I went inverted with...intentionally!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #49 on:** October 29, 2006, 09:04:02 AM »

[quote author=Alan Hayes link=topic=2377.msg16876#msg16876 date=1162134661

Wish I could remember. It would be nice to build another...just to have. It was the first plane I went inverted with...intentionally!

Quote

Minnesota Modeler is offering the Snapper as a kit--right now. So.........if you have the urge to build one, order a kit from him.

I scanned the plans (they came with the kit 8 1/2 X 11) I am including them in this reply. I also scanned the drawn by box and enlarged it so it could be esily read. George Milliken gets credit for designing it. Was he the original designer?
The kit I got from Ray duplicates the model depicted in the plans. The only change Ray made (at my request) was to set it up to take a Cox engine with integral fuel tank.
I like my Snapper. It looks right.