Author Topic: White Lightning (Read 3793 times)

John KruziK · « **on:** January 28, 2009, 06:31:26 PM »

Cut out the parts last night and started glueing. The fuse. is made from the flap of a wreck model 3/16" thick laminated with1/32 plywood doublers and 1/32 balsa. Thats recycleing! Cant belive how big this is for 1/2a John

John KruziK · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2009, 02:27:29 PM »

Covered with silkspan and painted with rattlecan almost done. John

Bill Adair · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2009, 03:22:21 PM »

John,

Looks really nice!

Looking forward to the flying report.

Bill

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2009, 04:46:14 PM »

Good lookin' plane, John!

ray copeland · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:47:36 PM »

Here is my addition to the White Lightning plans. Added 1 inch to the depth of the wing, 1 1/2 inches to the nose and enlarged the stab and elevator. Just looked like the right things to do. New AP Wasp .061 and balloon tank held by a danactive bottle, this balloon should hold around 1 1/2 oz. with no pressure for plenty of run time. Still came out just a smidge tail heavy,, not much, will test fly tommorrow on 50 foot .012 lines. As a note,, at this size, changing the wood to 3/16 instead of 1/8 inch should make a great flyer for an .09 size engine.

john conklin · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:59:28 PM »

looks good ray. congrats on the 2 laps inverted w/ hand vert.!!

ray copeland · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2009, 08:39:27 PM »

Got in my first flight today with the White Lightning design. Performed great ,, a little breezy but still got in insides, outsides, horz and veritcal eights and a couple laps inverted. Glided nicely , very pleased , this is definitely a flatwing keeper!!

John KruziK · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2009, 06:39:32 PM »

Realy like fuel tank , i"ve never used a balloon tank but might give it a try john

Bruce Feaver · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2009, 02:01:42 PM »

Now I am really flattered, and this has made my day. It is extreamly gratifying that I see others working up White Lightnings and that there are some good reports in flight. It is interesting to see the small changes that people are making especially with regard to weights, tail sizes and perhaps wing sizes.

There are a few reasons that the elevator is not so large and that is because of the flat wing, I wanted to make sure that the airplane did not get too twitchy, so the large stabilizer is important to stabilize the plane at high angle of attack and the elevators should be about right to make turns effective. However, I could be way off base as well.

I am just completing verson 2.0 with a Symetrical airfoil wing and I hope to post some images in the next few days. I think that the WL's that you are all making are looking just great, thanks for having fun with my design.

Bruce Feaver
hip pocket aeronautics
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/cl_sp_white_lightening.htm
Free plans to DL for this plane

John KruziK · « **Reply #9 on:** September 27, 2009, 02:34:56 PM »

Finally finished. Hope to fly this week, John

kenneth cook · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2009, 03:00:33 PM »

I assembled mine last night. I had the parts cut out for quite some time now. I cut the elevator as shown on the prints with the 1/32 ply cut in the same fashion as the print shows. I glued the ply on the elevator with epoxy to stiffen things up. Just prior to assembly, I flexed the elevator halves and sure enough they twisted enough from one to the other and cracked. I strongly recommend leaving more material at the hinge line just forward of the v shaped cut out between the halves. I think I'm going to cut that area out and use a small piece of bass between the halves then glue the ply stiffener back on. In addition , I'm coming out way tail heavy. I'm glad I checked it now. What engines are being used by others? I know the print calls for a tee dee or Norvel. I'm kind of sold on the AP .061. Ken

jim gilmore · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2009, 07:03:03 PM »

You say you are coming out way tail heavy. Can you move the engine forward some ?

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2009, 08:38:09 PM »

Hi,

My buddy Rich Jones hung onto a set of plans for a year before he started building his Lightning. It was ready to fly 2 weeks ago so we took it out for the first flight. At this time Rich cant say enough about the plane and the way it handles. The AP .061 isnt up to the task however and it wont get around the circle fast enough on the 35' lines that it is currently flies on. Thoughts are that it needs the "as recommended" Big Mig. If anyone has one they would like to sell please drop me a line.

Great little plane. Glad to see others are having the same fun!

Mark

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2009, 08:40:07 PM »

A couple more photos to share. Mark

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2009, 09:48:20 PM »

Another Pair

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #15 on:** September 28, 2009, 09:52:18 PM »

Last one. Mark

kenneth cook · « **Reply #16 on:** September 29, 2009, 06:55:06 PM »

Mark, I own several of the Big Mig .049's. I like them a lot and never had a complaint about them except for the large needle that sticks out the side. In the event you purchase one, my suggestion would be to clip the wire off down to the knurled knob. Mine bent the threads on the spray bar within the needle housing and will only screw in or out very little. I have others but this happened to this particular one. I haven't run my AP .061 yet. From what the others are stating is that its quite the powerhouse and typically likes to be underpitched to calm the speed down. I find it dissapointing for you to say its not doing the job on this particular airplane. My Big Mig engines are on the tee dee level but with more needling characteristics and more reliability. I just don't think of the Big Migs as a real powerhouse. I find them to do their job more than effectively and wouldn't turn one down for a minute. I just would've thought that the AP.061 was on the same playing field as the AME .061. I know that Larry Renger has stated more than once that these engines have had some issues in the crankshaft department. It may be binding somewhat due to a tight fit therefore not making the power it should be. I guess I'm going to just have to run mine to see what level of performance were getting here. I just currently picked up a early model Stels which is making more power than any of the Russian variants I own next to the VA. I just wished the case was bushed like the AP is its starting to show signs of excessive play. Ken

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #17 on:** September 29, 2009, 07:21:23 PM »

Something don't seem right...my new AP Wasp .061, still tight, pulls a 200 sq. in. combat wing on 48' lines plenty fast. It isn't the equal of my Norvels (not yet), but a strong engine.

I can't imagine an .061 not pulling the White Lightning easily, even on longer lines. Perhaps your prop choice is hindering it? I use 6x2, 5.5x2.5, 5x3, 5x4, 3-blade 5x3, depending on the speed I want. These engines like to rev, don't lug it down with too large a prop. Just a thought.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #18 on:** September 29, 2009, 07:33:22 PM »

Ray, I was just reviewing the pictures that has been displayed. It appears that there is a Top Flite nylon of unkown size and pitch. I love those props for my Cox engines and the durability factor at least until they start showing age old yellowing. It may be possible that there is a 6x3 on it. I must say Mark has done one heck of a job on that airplane. I admire the quality of the finish and the gear looks terrific. Its quite envious. Its great to see the pictures provided due to the fact that I'm not finished yet. It really helps my skills to see what others have done. I just want to be able to one day complete a plane that doesn't need to be hacked back into for various reasons. It always seems as though I don't have the cg quite right or tank mounting incorrect which leads to repainting some portion of the plane. I really like the checkerboards on the nose and it appears there is a tripler up front that nicely shaped. You certainly have my thumbs up Mark. Ken

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #19 on:** September 30, 2009, 01:19:15 PM »

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the compliments on the Lightning. I can’t take the credit however. This was built by Rich Jones who is my flying buddy and neighbor. I did however contribute on the Landing Gear design and I did all the silver solder work there for Rich. If we were to do that again we would go with .078 wire instead of .062 as after you add the tip weight it is just too flexi and the plane wants to fall over at rest. After the wire wrap and tying the two sides together it is pretty solid.

The Prop is a Topflight 6x3. Engine was ran on 35% nitro. We are at a little over 6000 feet here in Colorado. The previous plane Rich was flying this summer until someone turned Gravity on for him was a Sig Sky Ray with another AP .061 and the same prop. This little planed moved out pretty good. We think that this NEW AP .061 is not as good as the last one. If would be nice if it were still just requiring additional break in. I will talk to him about trying a smaller prop to try to work the power band a little more.

Curious on the weights of the other Lightnings out there. I think this on is around 9 1/2 ozs dry. We didnt think that was bad as it is pretty large. Although...perhaps its heavy. (The Sky Ray I mentioned earlier was the same weight to get it to balance. Lessons learned on that one for sure!)

Ken, That cheek cowl is just a carved and sanded Balsa block on the side to make it look Racy. The Checkerboard was done with a Marker of all things.... Everything else is a hand paint job with clear spraycan dope over the top.

Mark

John Crocker · « **Reply #20 on:** September 30, 2009, 04:14:31 PM »

At 9.5 oz that thing should howl. I had a twin stunter that weighed 17 that could easily fly on one engine. I'd take the engine apart and clean it up good, maybe polish the crankshaft. Make sure your getting a good fuel draw, you should be able to change the rpms by turning the needle a couple turns. Have had more than one case with an AP where junk got in the carb and limited fuel flow. Just my $.02.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #21 on:** October 02, 2009, 11:27:48 AM »

Hello All,

I have passed all this info on to Rich. If the weather warms we will try some of the suggestions here and report back.

Thanks!
Mark

George · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2009, 08:11:11 AM »

I do not have an AP .061. Is it ported like an AME or a Big Mig? The AME has three bypass ports.

If it runs like the NORVELs, a 6x3 is over-propping it. Try an APC 6x2 or a 5.7x3. Not only does this get it higher on the torque curve but it increases intake velocity to provide better fuel draw.

If the crankshaft needs polishing, it may feel hot on that part of the crankcase.

Good luck with it.

George

kenneth cook · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2009, 06:26:30 PM »

My lightning is in the assembled stage . Its completely doped with 3 coats on all surfaces. The one problem I seem to be encountering is the fuse doesn't seem to have a lot of integrity from side to side in the tail section. I shaped all parts as the plans call for and its probably due to wood selection for the fuse. I was thinking of installing silkspan on the fuse only. I probably should put it on the wing surfaces as well but I think now its strength issue for the fuse. Did anyone else apply silkspan on the fuse? Will this stop the flexing. I guess either way it can only benefit from it. I still show signs of coming out tail heavy. I elected for a single gear in the front. I was possibly thinking of taking some more wood of the belly back to the tail in order to reduce some of the cg issues. I guess another option is to make another spinner for the AP .061 out of brass is necessary. Ken

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #24 on:** October 04, 2009, 03:10:59 PM »

Try 2-wheel gear, heavy wire, heavy wheels. If you have to put nose weight in it may as well be functional. Lay another doubler (tripler? Quadrupler?) of 1/8" ply. on the fuselage front. A stiffer nose is always good. Lots of options that don't involve loading the engine down.

If the tail section is already flex-y I wouldn't take more wood off the fuse back there.

John KruziK · « **Reply #25 on:** October 04, 2009, 03:58:10 PM »

I was also conserned with the tail being so flexy, i was trying to put plane together with scrap laying around. So I made a built up profile fuse. and covered it with silkspan. In fact I wraped everything with silkspan. Mine came out a little portly at 13.4 oz.ready to fly, but it is very stiff. John

ray copeland · « **Reply #26 on:** October 04, 2009, 07:12:50 PM »

Put mine on the scales today, even being a little oversize from the plans it weighs 11.2 oz. and flies quite nicely for a flat wing. Rich, nice job!

Warren Leadbeatter · « **Reply #27 on:** October 08, 2009, 07:16:05 AM »

Quote from: ray copeland on October 04, 2009, 07:12:50 PM

Put mine on the scales today, even being a little oversize from the plans it weighs 11.2 oz. and flies quite nicely for a flat wing. Rich, nice job!

They really rip eh! I built the prototype of this plane for the designer.

She flies great with a Norvel 0.61

[youtube=425,350]4qonrzwTXeI[/youtube]

I should get mine out again...

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #28 on:** October 08, 2009, 04:03:47 PM »

Every time I see this Subject I think you are talking about Lefty Gardner's White Lightning N25Y.
See picture attached.
Clancy

Larry Renger · « **Reply #29 on:** October 09, 2009, 12:33:18 AM »

Anyone tried adding flaps to this baby? I bet it would make a difference!

kenneth cook · « **Reply #30 on:** October 09, 2009, 03:26:45 PM »

Larry, I wondered about flaps myself. I tried flaps on a Sig SKyray and had horrible results in doing so. The Skyray's flying ability is what led me to build this flat wing plane to begin with. I also remember Flying Models featuring some of the Dick Sarpolus designs with the flat wide wings. When one of our club members brought this plane to my attention a year ago I figured this was one of those designs. I'm really excited about flying this plane and I truly believe its going to be a good flyer. Ken