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Author Topic: which engine to use?  (Read 1653 times)

Offline Augsburger

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which engine to use?
« on: February 02, 2010, 07:19:07 PM »
Which would you recommend using on my Combat Kitten build.  Three to choose from, all NIB .049's.  Texaco, Baby Bee, or Black Widow.  Would someone explain the diffs in these if you have time?  Cheers
Wilder Eber

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2010, 07:48:10 PM »
The Baby Bee will do OK on this plane and was the entry level 049 Cox offered once upon a time. It was more powerful and cost less than almost all of the 049s offered by the competitors. There is a downside to using this engine on a maneuverable ship like Kitten. You will lose fuel inverted.

The Texaco was designed specifically for a free flight event that required fuel economy above anything else. Thus it employs a special head with a larger combustion chamber to lower compression that has 5 cooling fins. It is also designed to use a larger diameter prop. It would need a specially designed control line plane to take advantage of its special properties.

Now we come to the Black Widow! Best choice for your Kitten! It has the larger capacity tank with the "stunt tank" filler tube arrangement and twin bypass porting in the cylinder for higher performance.

Robert 
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Augsburger

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 10:46:50 PM »
Thank you Robert...
Wilder Eber

Offline Ed Burkot

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 06:28:42 AM »
Please note that the late production Black Widow engines do NOT have the 'stunt' tank.  Thus, they have the same issue with flying inverted as with the Babe Bee.   The older Black Widow engines with the vent tubes on both the top and the bottom of the fuel tank are great.

Offline George

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 09:19:27 AM »
As mentioned, the Black Widow originally had a "stunt vented" tank with fully extended fill and vent tubes mounted on the tank, and a ventless backplate.

The Babe Bee originally had tank fill and vent nipples on the backplate, later ones have a fill nipple and a vent hole. The backplates with the vent hole were originally metal but later were plastic.

The Texaco that I have uses a red ventless metal tank and a plastic backplate with fill nipple and vent hole. There may have been other iterations of that also, plus the Texaco Junior which has a smaller tank.

Venturi sizes varied depending on the purpose. That is, the Babe Bee had one size for better handling, Texaco was sized for good fuel draw at low RPM, and the Black Widow was sized for power.

Just before ESTES shut down operation, I'm not sure you could tell differences.

George
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Offline Augsburger

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2010, 01:52:22 PM »
Great info guys.  Thank you much.  Gives me a lot to look for on these engines...  cheers

Wilder Eber

Offline George

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2010, 08:09:34 PM »
Forgot to mention, with the backplate vented tanks, some have had success by installing a piece of plugged fuel tubing on the fill nipple so that air going in the vent hole will minimize fuel leaking out.

This is hear-say on my part, I have not tried it.

George
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Offline Augsburger

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 03:02:06 PM »
Much to my delight, I checked the Black Widow that I bought and it has the brass backplate and the bottom vent tube.  Since I would like to use and keep this engine, and since it is new, what fuel mix would you recommend I use for break in?  The instructions recommend three full tanks at rough rich idle.  What do you think?
Wilder Eber

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 05:34:10 PM »
Most all Cox engines will be best using all castor oil for the lube and you want about 22 percent minimum con tent of this.
The original Cox fuels used 15 and 25  percent nitro methane was the
cox racing fuel. I remember reading somewhere that the  racing fuel nitro could vary up to 30 percent on occasion.

For break in you need only the standard mix of 15 percent nitro with the 22 percent castor lube.   

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Victor Jeffreys

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 06:59:55 PM »
You can also set up a Baby Bee to work inverted as follows:

1- NV, filler holes, oriented to inside of flight circle.

2- Fuel P/U oriented to outside.

3- Fill the tank up and start engine with wings vertically oriented.

4- Launch quickly once plane is level, and centrifugal force will take care of the rest of it.

Offline Augsburger

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2010, 03:36:53 PM »
thanks guys....

Wilder Eber

Offline John Rist

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2010, 06:40:21 AM »
Much to my delight, I checked the Black Widow that I bought and it has the brass backplate and the bottom vent tube.  Since I would like to use and keep this engine, and since it is new, what fuel mix would you recommend I use for break in?  The instructions recommend three full tanks at rough rich idle.  What do you think?
One other thing - Cox typically needs the piston/rod ball joint tightened after 10 runs or so.  It's been my experience that after tighten it once it seem to stay put.  The bad news it takes a special tool.  If you don't have one you may ask around - some one in your neck of the woods may have one and has had experience using it.  Some of the Cox experts on line may know more about this but it has always put the spunk back into a sagging Cox for me.

 H^^  H^^  H^^  ;D
John Rist
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Offline Robert McHam

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2010, 08:01:06 AM »
Quote by John Rist:
"One other thing - Cox typically needs the piston/rod ball joint tightened after 10 runs or so.  It's been my experience that after tighten it once it seem to stay put.  The bad news it takes a special tool."

For now, that news is not so bad because you can get this tool from Bernie and Xena who are major sponsors here!

http://coxengines.ca/product.php?productid=280&cat=11&page=2

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline John Rist

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2010, 09:40:23 AM »
Yep that is what it looks like. Mine is an original tool made by Cox but the Xena tool is the same thing. IT takes a little skill to use one.  I have a small hammer that I use and I sneak up on the process to make sure I don't over tighten.  I keep tightening the joint till the "feel" of slop goes away. Man's hands and fingers are amazing when it comes to feeling slop in a rod. If you can feel any slop at all the joint is too loose. By the way the most important thing is to work on a solid serface.  The top of a wood work bench is too bouncy. I use a steel machinist vise that weighs 5 lb or so.  Best to work on top of a beanch vise or fariley large block of steel.

 y1
John Rist
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2010, 01:30:50 PM »
Cement floors work for me.  I agree wholeheartedly with the "sneak up on it" approach.  I rotate the tool after every strike to make sure the pressure is even all around.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Augsburger

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Re: which engine to use?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2010, 03:13:15 PM »
looks scary but I'll order one....thanks for the tip
Wilder Eber


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