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Author Topic: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV  (Read 1804 times)

Offline John Crocker

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The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« on: July 02, 2007, 12:43:35 PM »
Note to self:  1/2A's fly great until the wind picks up.


So I got back in to this hobby about a month or 2 ago at the bquest of my 7 yr old son.  Built the "Phoenix IV", based on 3 previous models I had made when I was younger that always seemed to rise from the ashes of their crashes.  Just simple stick contruction, did not want to put a ton of work or money into something I knew we were going to crash a bunch in remembering how to do various tricks. 

Powered by a Norvel .049.  Plane was plenty fast, on 35' lines with a 6X3 Master Airscrew it would turn 4 second laps and was more capable than I am.  Took several hard hits in remembering how to do ourside loops and fly upside down.



Well, I went flying with my old flying buddy on Sat and the wind picked up, but we refused to go home, having too much fun.  I was smart and switched from my "nicer" planes (still sheet winged, but in better shape) to the red phoenix which had a few dinks in it, but even the mysterious powers of the phoenix could not save it from doom. 

I was flying figure 8's down wind and lost airspeed so I came out into level flight to pick up some speed.  After one lap, a gust of wind got under the outboard wing and flipped it.  Plane went into a climbing uncontrolled slack line wingover and pile drived itself into the ground at full throttle from 30' up.  Engine appears to be fine, we were flying on grass.

Here's what was left  LL~





Now I get to sniff some more glue and dope.

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2007, 02:06:00 PM »
Good start, John...my philosophy is: If you're gonna fly, you're gonna crash.  It's just part of it.

By the way, unless they've changed them again, that sure looks like an .061, not .049.  Does it say 1 cc on the side?

--Ray
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Offline John Crocker

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2007, 02:24:49 PM »
No, but it says 049 under the head and had 049 on the box.

As for your thoughts on flying, I agree entirely.  My wife (whom I love dearly, but does not understand anything fun related) just shook her head and said, "I swear, you dont take care of your stuff worth a crap".

My buddy Kevin (whom I've known and kicked around with for 32 years, we met in 3 year old preschool) said, "Look April, you gotta understand.  If it isn't cracked , broken, chipped, or irrepairably damaged, you ain't trying hard enough". VD~

She just shook her head and walked away.  Man I love irritating her, ;D

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2007, 10:02:24 PM »
Women just don't get it...my wife thinks I ought to build display models.

My Norvel .049s all have silver fins and a press-fit venturi, my .061s the dark-anodized fins and a bolt-in venturi like yours.  Guess that "dates" my .049s!

I don't think of them as old, since they all still feel and run like new, but I guess I have had them several years now when I look back on it.

You should enjoy yours for many years to come!

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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 09:10:27 AM »
Some women "get it".  Several wives in our club are happy to come assist at contests.  John Wright's and Jim Lally"s ladies actually fly CL occasionally.  Jed Kusik was out on Sunday teaching his daughter how to fly.   My 3 year old granddaughter loves anything that flies.

My own wife dislikes engines, but has her own slope glider.  No issues on the time I take to go flying, either.  She realizes that if I am out at the field inhaling fresh Castor Fumes and getting a bit of excercise, I'm not sogged out on the couch watching the "game" drinking beer.  She wouldn't dream of missing the Cristmas (oops, Holiday) Party.  Especially after the time someone slipped a Whoopie Cushion onto the seat of one of our more portly members and it exploded instead of making a razzberry.

My hobby pretty much pays for itself with the articles I write, and we keep our finances separate anyway, so as long as I am willing to kick in my half of new carpeting or couch or whatever, there is no problem with whatever I buy (except for the "where the heck will you store THAT" issue).

Life is good  ~>   #^   y1
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007, 10:37:10 AM »
My wife is a musician with perfect pitch.  She is unable to ignore music or noise and  the sound of engines annoys her.  I got her to fly once, and she is a natural.  I made the mistake of filing the tank. She flew it out about 30 laps, perfectly level, and collapsed on the ground.  She absolutely hates any kind of dizziness or disorientation, so there was no possibility of her flying again.  :(

Alan Hahn

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007, 02:28:49 PM »
I have Norvell Big Mig 049's of the old style (ABN) and the newer Ceramic coatings. The old ones had glued in venturi's, the new have the bolt on type (quick eyeball of the one on my Baby Flite Streak). I have 061's too (old style the best I remember). As far as I can tell, the only way to externally tell the old ones was the inked on designation. As I recall, the new ones have it raised on the crankcase---boy it has been some time since I looked!

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2007, 03:38:58 PM »
Mine are inked on.   ABN, hmmmm?  Is the newer ceramic coating superior?  My engines certainly are wearing well, don't know how you could improve on that.  Maybe the ceramic-coated engines are easier to break in?  That would be an improvement.  The first run on a Norvel, at least the old style, is a bear.

--Ray
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Alan Hahn

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2007, 06:09:28 PM »
I don't think they are any easier to break in. I helped out some years ago when the EAA KidVenture started to use the Bratco Skybaby with a Big Mig 061. Those were the newer ceramic (I forget the name that Norvell used---the layer was a very thick aluminum oxide) and they were tough to break in. I had just made a 1/2A starter, so that helped a lot.

I have a theory about both Cox and Norvel. With Norvel, the factory must have figured that QC wasn't worth it to get a reasonably tight fit between the cylinder and the piston, so they went overboard an had super tight fits. That made it almost impossible for beginners or less experienced modelers to get these engines started. My theory about Cox (in the last years) was that they figured there was no reason to get the ball joint tight between the connecting rod and piston since the typical beginner never would run the engine long to have an issue. The last production Cox engines I bought at their fire-sale prices were really loose. Oh well, both engines now seem to be history. It seems a little bit of a shame to me, since both companies' products will probably never really be equalled again really.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 10:33:08 AM »
I suggest you take a look at the AP Wasp from Hobby People.  I have run three of them and they were all good, strong runners and go through the pattern with ease.

The Brodak Mk 1 is a pretty good runner too, once you substitute the Nelson head or modify the original head to act as a retainer for Norvel plugs.  The Brodak Mk 2 is OK, but there doesn't seem to be any way to substitute a glowhead for the short glowplug.   >:(
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2007, 10:39:58 AM »
I haven't managed to get the head off my Brodak Mk 1.  It runs OK but not great, about like a Cox Babe Bee.  Would be nice to get a little more out of it.

--Ray
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2007, 07:14:36 PM »
Now I'm not sure what I have.  I got the head off...it's one piece, holding a standard short plug, with female threads in the head, screws down over the cylinder male threads.  Galbreath head obviously won't work on this.  Did Brodak make another .049 besides the Mk 1 & II?

--Ray
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2007, 09:38:33 AM »
You have the MK 1 engine, and Henry Nelson makes a replacement head for it that, in my experience, adds about 3000 rpm and smooths out the run stability.  All to the good.  Of course you then have an $80 engine when you could have had an AP Wasp for $40 and not need any mods.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Rise and fall of Phoenix IV
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2007, 02:45:55 PM »
Thanks Larry, I was sure it was the Mk 1 but the talk of a Nelson head for it confused me. I assumed "Galbreath head" for Nelson plugs was meant even though looking back I see that's not what you said. 

3000 rpm advantage?  That would certainly make the difference in this little engine, kinda gutless as is.  Guess I'll look into it.

--Ray
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
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