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Author Topic: The Kwikees are coming!  (Read 3632 times)

Offline Larry Renger

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The Kwikees are coming!
« on: October 05, 2010, 11:01:59 AM »
What with the first Kwikkee Stunt contest only a couple of weeks away, and having trashed my Skyray and Bullet models, I am busily building a new one.  This is a Kwikee version of the Skyfire.  It has 220 sq.in. wing and will be AP Wasp powered.  So far, I have maybe 3 hours work in it.  Probably 2 more and ready for finish.  These really go together fast.

Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Bob Furr

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2010, 12:07:17 PM »
Very cool!    One thing I really like about this kind of design is that your investment in time and materials is low so you can try new ideas.   I remember using a 1/2A to test out really oversize flaps... and discovering that if they are large enough and the tail moment short enough the flaps overpower the elevator....
Keep us posted!
Bob Furr

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2010, 05:54:44 PM »
Structure all assembled (the photo had pins etc to hold it together).  First epoxy on the nose and in the engine mounting holes is setting up as I write.  I figure one coat of dope, light sanding and two of clear, gloss Urethane will do the trick, and it will be ready to fly this weekend.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2010, 12:14:30 AM »
All sanded out, filler applied where needed, and first coat of dope on.  Also, decals designed and printed out, ready for top-coat (Lusterkote matte, to go under the final Lusterkote gloss clear)

I figure to sand this first coat with 600 grit to polish is as much as possible, do the decals, and then spray with Lusterkote.  Since this is an experimental model, I want to see what the minimum finish can be.  The nose area is epoxy sealed, so gross oil soaking should not happen.  The rest of the model need only resist exaust, windex cleaner and atmospheric moisture.

I hope to have it flying this weekend!
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online afml

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2010, 05:43:42 AM »
"This is a Kwikee version of the Skyfire. "

Hmmm...Are the wing swept forward?? D>K

Look'n good! #^

"Tight Lines!" H^^

Wes
Wes Eakin

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2010, 08:18:31 AM »
The leading edge is straight on this one.  I don't have the confidence that a swept forward wing this thin would hold together.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2010, 11:06:17 PM »
Progress!  2 coats of clear dope, sanded with 600 grit.   Added the decals and stickers.  Ready tomorrow for a coat of Lusterkote clear.  Then add the hardware, and go fly it!  I have an old 2/3oz. Perfect tank I modified for uniflo.  I plan to modify a standard Cox spinner hub to the 4mm x .7 thread and use a regular Cox spinner.  Prop will probably be a 5x3 Cox black, as I suspect this puppy needs to fly fast to maintain lift.  A trade-off between speed and structural integrity!
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2010, 08:45:06 PM »
I like it.   Hope it flies better than it looks so we can ask for plans. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 07:02:28 AM »
I like it.   Hope it flies better than it looks so we can ask for plans. H^^

!!!!!!  Now Doc,  that's certainly not the ugliest plane in the world...not even the ugliest plane Larry ever designed..

Personally, I like the look.  Maybe a little heavy with all that ply?  But surely tough. I'd like a wheel or 2 on it though.  Waiting for flight reports.
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 09:18:06 AM »
Now did I say it was ugly????? ??? I have seen some really gorgeous designs that were real dogs in the air. n~Then if want ugly planes just look at a couple of mine. H^^ 
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2010, 05:59:40 PM »
"All that ply" is actually only 1/32" thick.  It is laminated over 3/32" balsa side panels.  The engine bearers are 7/16 x 1/4, drilled out for most of their length.  See the attached photo of the basic parts.  Eric Rule has the cut file....  He does need to re-orient the vertical tail grain, though.  As you can see, the bellcrank and control-horn are provided.

The published, swept forward Skyfire was nearly 11 ounces, this one is nearly 3 ounces lighter, about the same weight as my Sky Sport, which has 40 sq.in. smaller wings.  With the power of the AP Wasp, you really only need something to aim the thrust vector anyway.

It has a single wheel, but that lower fin acts as a tailskid, and there are now two tip support skid wires.  It will sit on the asphalt for takeoff just fine.

Tomorrow, it gets the tank and engine, prop and spinner and it is DONE!!!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 06:22:28 PM by Larry Renger »
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2010, 09:26:19 AM »
It's done!!  Completely ready to fly.   #^ (PE**) (051) HH%%

As you can see in the photo, I used sewn figure-eight hinges, and am trying something new for elevator adjustment.  That little widget is a standard R/C item to allow easy pushrod adjustment.  The spinner is a Cox rtf one.  I drilled and tapped the standard adapter, changing it from 5x40 to 4mm x .7 metric for the AP Wasp.  Prop is a 5.5x2.5 APC.  The tank is an old perfect 2/3 oz converted to uniflo.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online John Rist

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 10:04:33 AM »
Looks great!  If it were me I would have used a 2-56 threaded clevis. Easy to adjust and can't vibrate loose.
John Rist
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 02:17:12 PM »
I've been using a similar setup on the horn, except the bolt goes thru the elevator horn and then into the thimble holding the pushrod; serves double purpose.  I'll get a pic of it soon.

the Kwikee looks like it should perform very well, esp. with that power plant on it. Good looking design.
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 06:27:21 PM »
I have had VERY bad experiences with clevises on 1/2A models.  The high rpm can cause them to shatter!  Three times on one plane, finally resulting in its demise( one nylon, two different brands of steel).  No way Jose!  Ball joints, especilly the bolt-through ones are certainly reliable.  The nice thing about the setup I chose, is the ease of adjustment, and not needing the rod to be threaded.  If I wanted heavier rod, I could easily drill the pass-through hole larger.  Plenty of meat there, probably to go to 1/8" (though the pin going through the control horn is a bit suspect if the model were larger)
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Bill Heher

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2010, 10:06:35 PM »
 I think it looks great- and the parts pic is impressive. Very cool looking design- reminds me of the RF-84 photo recon plane we had at AP school in Thei River Falls MN back in the 80's.

On the elevator link I would replace the Phillips screw with a good allen screw, and file a flat on both side of the rod to give it more surface area for a better grip.
Bill Heher
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If it's broke Fix-it
If it ain't broke- let me see it for a minute AMA 264898- since 1988!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 08:21:16 AM »
Perhaps when the rod is adjusted to it's final position, a flat would be good.  The screw, unfortunately is metric, so finding an Allan type one may be a problem.

First flight will be this morning!
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Bill Heher

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 09:06:10 AM »
What size is the screw?  The equipment I work on is all metric ( Made in Japan) and I have access to lots of small to very small hex drive screws in Stainless Steel.  I can throw a half dozen or so in an envelope and mail them to you if I know the size / pitch.
Bill Heher
Central Florida and across the USA!
If it's broke Fix-it
If it ain't broke- let me see it for a minute AMA 264898- since 1988!

Online John Rist

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 01:06:54 PM »
If you are happy with the adjustment put a drop pf CA on the rod/coupler/screw.  Or do nothing it ain't going to work loose anyway.  Just check it after the first flight or so.

 D>K
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Elwyn Aud

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 05:01:36 PM »
Skyfire.   Was that one of the designs somebody tried to develop out of the T-33? Looked great but never found any potential buyers. It was a few decades ago. I think I saw the plane at an airshow in OKC(not flying) in the early 90's.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2010, 05:06:41 PM »
I never heard of a full scale aircraft using that name.  Interesting, I'll google it!

First flight was a partial success.  The plane is smooth and shows great potential for maneuverability.  However!!!  The wing flex is downright scary!  Some carbon fiber strip is going to go on, top and bottom.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Elwyn Aud

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2010, 07:48:06 PM »
Took a little searching but I found the one I was thinking about. It was the Skyfox not Skyfire.
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31150&start=0

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2010, 08:06:44 PM »
[

First flight was a partial success.  The plane is smooth and shows great potential for maneuverability.  However!!!  The wing flex is downright scary!  Some carbon fiber strip is going to go on, top and bottom.
[/quote]

A broad wing chord is just about a necessity with 1/8" sheet wings. 
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2010, 09:50:44 AM »
Gee, Ray, how do you make the props sweep back like that?   VD~
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline George

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2010, 09:58:30 AM »
Gee, Ray, how do you make the props sweep back like that?   VD~

Ya just can't get them in a store like that!  ;D  H^^

George
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2010, 10:53:55 PM »
Added 1/2 meter long carbon strips to top and bottom of wing.  Way stronger.  Also increased elevator throw about 25%.  Next flights on Friday.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2010, 09:45:27 PM »
Gee, Ray, how do you make the props sweep back like that?   VD~

Say, it ain't easy...send me your props and I'll see what I can do.  (Helps with the speed, you know, streamlined and all that...)
--Ray 
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2010, 05:46:36 PM »
OMG!   #^ CLP** (PE**) HH%% o2oP (051)

I put a flight on the KSF (Kwikee Sky Fire), doing the whole pattern.  That was only the second flight on the plane.  Then John Wright also put in a full pattern.  This thing is a sweetheart from the word GO!  It will be totally competitive in 1cc full stunt against anything I have flown or seen.  Corners are crisp, rounds are round, level is smooth.  Line tension is good.

Three remaining problems, now fixed (I hope).  The wingtips occasionally showed some flutter.  I added small (.11 oz fishing sinkers) weights on carbon fiber booms ahead of the tip pods by about an inch to kill the flutter.  Also made an adjustable tab to correct a slight left roll bias.  Finally, added a bit of extra tipweight.

The contest is tomorrow, so I hope I got the fixes right! (tipweight and tab are easily adjusted, at least).
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2010, 09:49:28 PM »

Three remaining problems, now fixed (I hope).  The wingtips occasionally showed some flutter.  I added small (.11 oz fishing sinkers) weights on carbon fiber booms ahead of the tip pods by about an inch to kill the flutter. .

You did what?  Weights on booms ahead of the tips?  To kill "flutter"?  I don't get it. I never saw the problem, much less the solution.  Guess I have a lot more to learn about this stuff than I thought...
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
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Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2010, 10:07:43 AM »
     I saw the plane fly yesterday .... WOW! Very impressive, flutter or no flutter. 
Nice plane, Larry!

Larry
BHM

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2010, 09:35:20 PM »
The flutter is completely gone due to the booms.  Flutter happens when a wing is flexible in both torsion and spanwise flexing, as mine is.  Moving weight ahead of the "node line" (whatever the heck that is) fixes the problem.  Many full scale aircraft have flutter balance weights on booms ahead of the ailerons and elevator.

The more permanent fix is to move the spar forward and add a stiffener across the mid span.  So sayeth our local aeroelasticity guru Joel Chesler.  I'll keep playing with it, as the booms and weights are not appropriate for a kit or published design.

Anyway, the plane flies as well as any 1/2A I have tried, and took first at the Kwikee Stunt contest yesterday.  John Wright came in second with a Netzband Accentor (I think that is the name).
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Joey Mathison 9806

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2010, 05:31:42 AM »
i was at the speed circle and seen her in the air looked great larry. as stated does the whole pattern. i was amazed at how large it is in real life vs the pic from the forum.
200 mph man ama#9806 joey mathison

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2010, 09:28:45 AM »
I think the trim on this model is pretty much "there".  I took it to Clovis and I put up one flight, removed some tipweight and Heman Lee flew a 2nd flight.  It looks just right.  It drew a lot of favorable comments on its performance.   ;D

Now we need more of you out theretryhing to do me one better!  I intend to work up a plan for Blackhawk's magazine.  The fiddely bits are all available laser cut from RSM.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Ward Van Duzer

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2010, 08:27:47 AM »
Back in the fifties 'Red" Reinhardt had a flat wing 1/2 A called the Snapper. It had a 1/8th inch sheet wing. He called the wing flex "an experiment in variable dihedral"!


Ward-O

(I'm still flying mine!)

Am I missing something? Is this design kitted?

I hate spelling errors, you mess up 2 letters and you are urined!

Don't hesitate to ask dumb questions.
They are easier to handle than dumb mistakes!  Ward-O AMA 6022

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: The Kwikees are coming!
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2010, 08:50:12 AM »
The plan (just completed this morning) will be in Blackhawk's magazine.  The laser cut fuselage and tail parts are available from rsmdistribution.com .  The wing is so simple, you buy your own wood and build it from scratch.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


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