Author Topic: the good bad and the ugly (Read 1724 times)

roger · « **on:** October 24, 2009, 11:49:55 AM »

id like to know all the good bad and the ugly stuff about the 'wasp' motors break in info and fuel. are they considered an .061? kind of new to 1/2 a motors please help how much and where to get um.

roger

kenneth cook · « **Reply #1 on:** October 24, 2009, 12:46:18 PM »

Roger, I happen to own one of these engines but haven't run it. I purchased mine from Hobby People when they were running a sale on them. They're currently $49.99 now. The good is the engine from what I've read here has more than adequate power. The other good is the case itself has a bronze bushing for the crank unlike any of the other counterparts. Yes the engine is a .061 displacement and therefore dismisses it from a true 1/2a class. The other plus is that parts are available unlike some of the Norvel's. This engine is more like a clone to the Norvel. The engine does come with a r/c carb which just has to be wired open for our purposes. Others have adapted Tee Dee needle valve bodies and venturis to their engines. Keep in mind, there are very few of these smaller engines being made and available to us. I guess for the bad is the sometimes tight in the case crankshaft. This can be easily fixed by sanding and polishing the crank in a drill press. Ken

Graham Collins · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2009, 02:13:30 PM »

I like the AP 061's as they have worked well for me.

Some claim that quality is crap shoot with these but I have never founds bits of swarf inside the engines, others claim to have. I always strip a new engine down and give it a good inspection before I run it.

As Ken mentioned the crank to crankshaft bearing can sometimes be bit tight. The symptoms when running the engine are that it will sag after running a while as it heats up. The fix is to polish the crank and the bearing area - I use a cream metal polish, others will use some 1000+ grit wet or dry with lots of oil to polish up the crank. A quick search will find a number of postings by Larry Renger that will describe how he does it.

One very simple improvement is to run the Doug Galbreath head in place of the standard AP head/plug. Larry Driskil as these and be bought from his on line store www.kittingittogether.com $10 for head and it use the Henry Nelson plugs which Larry also sells for about $4.50 each. The AP061 engine can use any plug or head that the Cox or Norvels can use. Merlin Glow plugs is selling some very good replacement Norvel style plugs now. I couldn't comment on the AP plugs - I have never used them, I went straight away to something I am more familiar with and prefer.

RSM sells (at least I think now have it) a venturi designed by Larry Renger for this engine. There is a thread on this forum with some details. I must admit that that use the Cox Tee Dee 049 venturi and needle valve on mine - I never did care for the AP throttle and I suspect that the AP throttle is the reason you will hear many negative complaints about this engine. The throttle is elegantly simple but it does have the potential to leak air giving the resultant frustration of inconsistent runs.

The APC 6x2 prop seems to be ideal for this engine and 1/2a size control line planes. APC also has the 5.7x3 which I also like and APC also has a 5.5x2.5 but I have not yet tried that one.

cheers, Graham in Ottawa Canada

Bill Adair · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:38:36 PM »

Graham is right on the money, about the AP Wasp. I've only run one of mine so far, but am impressed with the performance and handling.

The stock R/C carb is terrible, and doesn't come close to the rest of the engine in quality. Conversion to a Cox, or RSM venturi is the way to go.

RSM is marketing a replacement venturi (not Larry Renger's design) that should work as well or better than Graham's Cox conversion.

Problem here, is the price of the conversion, which will probably run about twenty dollars. I happened to have the Cox parts laying around, so have nothing invested but time.

The original AP glow plugs are the same size as the early Norvel plugs, which are smaller in diameter than the Norvel Freedom plugs they used the last few years. The Freedom plugs are hotter than the early Norvel plugs, but I have no idea if the AP plugs are the same heat range as the early or late Norvel plugs.

Considering that the AP Wasp with a conversion venturi, will run circles around most currently available Cox engines you can find for the same price, it's not a bad deal. Add the warranty, and full stock of replacement parts, and your money ahead.

Bill

Robert McHam · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2009, 08:43:34 PM »

Hobby People runs a special price for these several times a year for a nice price of 39.95. Also the cylinder and piston set only runs $15.00

Robert

Larry Renger · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2009, 09:48:27 PM »

Ok, the AP Wasp has proven to be a really great engine for me and a couple of friends. We are using Jan Holuszko's venturis. I am currently using Merlin drop-in plugs with an extra gasket. The runs are consistent, reliable and the fuel economy is great. I have sort of settled on the APC 5.5x2.5 prop on my Sky Sport flying on .008 x 47' lines. It takes just over 3/4 ounce of 10% nitro fuel to do the pattern. The model uses a floppy balloon tank, no pressure.

I don't know if Jan or Eric is the source for the venturi's as I have all I need, currently. You will have to ask them. All I can say is that compared to my design, I use Jan's version myself!!!

You better bet that when HP again puts that engine on sale, I will stock up for the rest of my life!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2009, 02:57:54 AM »

I received one of Jan's venturis and it is a work of art.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2009, 05:40:08 PM »

Ray, are these venturis available to the public? I just had a conversation about this engine to a club member yesterday. He was looking to try some of the small stuff and asked what engine would be of choice. I believe he was looking at one of your Skywriter kits. My 1/2 a roots go back a way and I'm not sure if its fair or legal for him to start off with the best of the best. He asked me exactly how you would deal with the r/c carb. I didn't think this would be a problem and explained how to hold it open. I'm assuming that most individuals have used this engine in the box stock form. Can some fuel tubing and maybe some gasket sealer take care of the air leaks that have occured? I was looking at the intake opening of the stock r/c carb and it looks pretty small. Could this be opened up for better performance? I will be using my engine sometime this month and therefore will be breaking it in soon. Ken

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2009, 04:41:38 AM »

Kenneth, I don't know when (or if) these venturis will be available, Jan sent me this one as a sort of "beta" version to try out. I encouraged him to market it but haven't heard any details about how that's going. I'm not familiar with the RSM venturi mentioned in earlier posts but sounds like it is a good option too.

I ran mine with the RC carb first and I have to say it's a piece of junk. The whole installation wobbles and leaks, if you touch the needle the fuel flow changes. I had taken mine all apart and removed the "movable" parts in an attempt to make my own CL venturi but never tried it since Jan's venturi arrived about then.

I suppose a guy could wire it wide open, then adjust the needle valve by hit or miss (when you turn loose of the needle it changes) but seems to me like that's a ticket to frustration.

The SkyWriter would be a killer plane with an .061 on it, probably 45 to 50 ft. lines.

John Crocker · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2009, 05:59:52 AM »

Use a piece of paperclip to wire open the throttle. For the wobbly carb, take some JB weld (the old kind), take off the carb, put a little on the base of the carb and rescrew it into place, then use a toothpick to spread some more JB on the outside seam to seal it up. Got an extra 2 - 3,000 rpms with the seal.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2009, 11:07:44 AM »

Jan told me that he was going to market his venturis, and the price quoted was $15 +$2 for shipping. Perhaps he will pitch in here and verify that. I was designing a venturi for Eric Rule, but Jan's is so much better that we dropped the concept. Eric may be selling Jan's venturis, you would have to check with him at rsmdistribution.com .

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2009, 03:22:06 PM »

It's well worth that price. Very well made, well thought out, nice details.

jamtx · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2009, 06:07:37 PM »

Jan is selling them.I got one on the way.

ray copeland · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2009, 06:59:17 PM »

Jan's venturi works very well and is a handsome addition to the AP wasp!!

Bill Adair · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:19:57 PM »

Just ordered some for my Wasp engines.

Wonder how Jan got the Wasp needle valve to seal better? Was all that slop in the spray bar, and not just undersize threads on the needle?

Ray, are you going to mount yours with JB Weld, or use a machine screw all the way through the venturi throat?

Bill

ray copeland · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:03:52 PM »

Bill, the venturi is threaded to accept the original screws. I haven't had a problem with this set-up, i just tighten the screws real good with a drop of thread lock.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:12:46 PM »

That's part of the beauty of this venturi. It uses several parts off the RC carb: The O-ring to seat on, the tiny little mounting screws that don't protrude into the throat, stock needle valve/ratchet in a new spray bar that's keyed so you can't put it in with the hole misaligned, etc. It's pretty great.

Bill Adair · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:30:13 PM »

Ray,

Wow, can't believe Jan is putting so much finish work into his venturi(s), and is still able to sell them so inexpensively.

I've been routinely replacing all of my AP Wasp screws, with quality American made screws. Most of the Chinese screws I've used lately, just shear off when I attempt to snug them down!

Bill

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:22:55 AM »

Jan does great work. I have a 1/2A spinner he made that is a work of art.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2009, 05:13:10 PM »

I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but at my request, Doug made a lower compression head for the Nelson plug conversion that is aimed at more consistent long runs with .049/.061 engines. It keeps the squish band where it should be but allows more volume in the remainder of the chamber. I suspect that for optimum, the two different engine sizes (.049, .061) will need slightly different configurations. That may also prove to be true between the Cox style porting and the AP Wasp/Norvel style engine.

Doug's original heads are designed to run fantastic for about 15 seconds with a Tee Dee .049 pointed straight up running ludicrous amounts of Nitro and other chemicals. They seem to do that really, really well.

Not exactly our need for a steady 6 minute run under highly varying "G" conditions on lower nitro fuels ( can you spell "tank size and fuel consumption?"). I will work with him to develop something for OUR needs. He is still using a conical shaped chamber, and I suspect that a hemispherical shape may be needed. Until I work with his head, I will assume he knows best!

Due to all the variables, I am going to have to concentrate on optimizing for the AP Wasp .061 as it is currently available, and my standard engine at present. Anyone who wants to work with Doug to optimize for some other engine, have at it!

More news at 11 (someday or other)