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  • September 15, 2019, 03:15:40 PM

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Author Topic: Substitute for Norvel .049?  (Read 655 times)

Offline Jim Howell

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Substitute for Norvel .049?
« on: August 09, 2019, 10:08:27 AM »
Since the Norvel .049 is no longer available except at "the Bay" rates, what make/model of .049 is more or less equivalent?  Context is that the BMJR 1/2A TEOSAWKI was designed around the beam-mounted Norvel .049.

TIA,
Jim Howell
Jim Howell
Huntsville, AL  AMA 545805

Online kenneth cook

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2019, 03:54:29 PM »
             NV engines carries the Norvel engine line and still lists the .061. Same size case just larger displacement. It's always worth a e-mail to them due to them sometimes not listing the engine but they sometimes have it

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 07:02:35 PM »
X2 what Mr. Ken says. ISTR remember a thread here a few months back describing one member's purchase from the Norvel vender.

Your purchase experience will go most successfully over email instead of through the NVEngines website. Once you find the thread, contact the successful member for that email address.

I have ordered parts that aren't listed by emailing a parts request straight to the "Norvel Man." People in the thread backed up the method. Unorthodox, given the website purchase page, but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do!

Offline Jim Howell

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 08:11:12 AM »
Got the recommendations and have sent the email.
Thanks,

Jim Howell
Jim Howell
Huntsville, AL  AMA 545805

Offline paw080

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2019, 03:44:33 PM »
Since the Norvel .049 is no longer available except at "the Bay" rates, what make/model of .049 is more or less equivalent?  Context is that the BMJR 1/2A TEOSAWKI was designed around the beam-mounted Norvel .049.

TIA,
Jim Howell

Hi Jim, the Norvel .049 engine is a completely pathetic "Stunt Engine". Everything about it is engineered
for high revs and lousy fuel draw unless fuel delivery is pressurized.  The 1/2A TEOSAWKI is the average
size of the early generation Cox TD .049 powered Combat models. Most were in the 190-200 sq" wing area
range.  For the 1/2A Teosawki model, a far better glow engine choice would be a Cox .049 Medallion.
Barry Baxter's 1/2A Stuka design, which was a terrific stunt model, weighed the same as the 1/2A T***,
was powered by a Cox Medallion, and had a 225 sq" wing. 

An even better true 1/2A stunt engine(.049cu") is the Paw .049 sbr diesel engine that can pull a larger prop;
and fly a 230-250sq" model. Barry Baxter's 'Half Arrow" model has 250sq"s area and is powered by
a Paw .049 tbr diesel.   

The bottom line is that both the Cox Medallion and the Paw .049 diesels make their usable power at a lower,
yet wider RPM range. The engine choice is yours.  S?P

Tony G  :) :)   

 

Offline Jim Howell

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2019, 06:56:39 PM »
Tony,

Got it, thanks for the info.  Given that I know "ZERO" about the Norvel .049, I have no info to compare with.  I have some knowledge about the Cox reedies, and have helped out with the KidVenture Norvel Big Mig .061, but did not know how to evaluate the N .049.  What little I know is that BMJR's use of the Norvel .049 was in part driven by their possession of some Norvel .049's that had been used on 1/2A Free Flight models.  I had suspected that the Medallion .049/.051 might be a candidate substitute.  But I don't have any of those either.  My 1/2A days are long past.  It has only been the recent upsurge of interest in 1/2A stunt and my experience with KidVenture that has stoked my interest in some of the smaller designs of around 200-to 250 squares.  I've known Brian Malin of BMJR for some time and have built several of their FF models.  Given that a couple of friends have talked positively at length about the full-sized TEOSAWKI, I thought I'd give the 1/2A T a shot.

Thanks,
Jim Howell
Jim Howell
Huntsville, AL  AMA 545805

Online Trostle

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2019, 09:25:05 PM »


Hi Jim, the Norvel .049 engine is a completely pathetic "Stunt Engine". Everything about it is engineered
for high revs and lousy fuel draw unless fuel delivery is pressurized. 

Tony G  :) :)

Before you write the Norvel engine off as a "Stunt Engine", there needs to be a realization that there are two types of the basic Norvel .049 and the Norvel .061.  The two types come in both displacements.  Each size/displacement has a "Big Mig" version and an "AME" version.  Yes, both types like to rev and are happiest with smaller props.  The Big Migs are more for "sport" with tamer timing and run comfortably without pressure.  The AME engines are meant for higher RPM and really need to run on pressure.  Pressure can be provided either by the muffler or by a back plate that has a pressure tap in it.  (These back plates were available at least at one time.)

They all have the same outward appearance whether a Big Mig or an AME.  The Big Mig engines have 5 small intake ports that are easily visible with the head removed.  The AME engines have 3 relative larger intake ports.  This holds true with the engines that had the earlier smaller and shiny cooling fins as well as the engines with the larger fins of a darker color.

Keith
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 09:18:40 AM by Trostle »

Online kenneth cook

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2019, 06:41:47 AM »
            I truly enjoy my Norvel's. I have several in both .049 and .061. One plane in particular is my Dumas Lil Tomahawk. No pressure, nothing special but it flies better than it should. Originally supposed to be powered with a Black Widow, the Norvel does it quieter, more efficiently and with authority. This would be the Big Mig using a APC 5.5x2.5 prop. No need for anything more than 10% fuel.

Offline dave siegler

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 12:23:39 PM »
IDK, the Norvel's are great engines hardly pathetic.   Way more power and reliability than the engines listed above. 
They like smaller is props and higher RPM.  They make a lot of power and they (big migs) draw fuel as good as my TD's.  Hey have a lot more advanced metallurgy than the engines listed above.


I can run 50 foot lines on a 200 square inch airplane in the wind. 

At EAA airventure we train about 1500 kids each summer with Norvel 061's some have been running im that application for 7 or 8 summers.  they are pretty worn out.  But a Cox (I love cox engines) or PAW would not stand up to that kind of abuse. 

So IMHO find a norvel 061 and fly it, don't over prop it or over compress it (glow head gaskets).  You will have fun.  They can be tricky to run the first few times. 
Dave Siegler
NE9N extra class
AMA 720731
EAA 1231299 UAS Certificate Number FA39HY9ML7  Member of the Milwaukee Circlemasters. A Gold Leader Club for over 25 years!  http://www.circlemasters.com/

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 01:53:57 PM »
 S?P just got back from the flying field .was flying my new 243 sq in wing  LiL king with an AME .061 on 55ft 30 lb spider wire  and 10 % fuel .it was turning a cox gray 6/3 at 18.5000.on case pressure.it will do the whole pattern with no problem. I think it would still fly OK with an AME .049 as it is almost too fast with the .061

the orig Tercel flew great with a Medallion .049 on 52 ft .008 lines but the new Tercel +10% has too much wood in it ..it fly's good with a S/T .11 in it .take out about 1/3 of the ribs and do the planking with 1/32 and it should be a goer

from what I saw at Brodaks .find a GOOD running engine weather it be a cox or Norvel and fit the plane to it and it will work
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 09:05:48 AM by bob whitney »
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Offline Jim Howell

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 04:04:25 PM »
Same topic, but a slightly different question.  How does the Brodak .049 Mk II compare with the milder Norvel .049?

TIA,
Jim Howell
Jim Howell
Huntsville, AL  AMA 545805

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 04:12:12 PM »
Mr..Whitney,

Please, what is a Lil King? I googled it and came up blank.
Thanks in advance,
Jim in MS

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 06:51:24 PM »
"I'm not the Jim you are looking for," in my worst Alec Guinness voice.

And if I didn't have a stash of Norvels, APs, and too many Cox Reedies sprinkled with Medallions, I would beat the door down to grab yours, Mr. Marcucci!

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Substitute for Norvel .049?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 07:21:16 PM »

the LIL KING ,or MINI KING is a profile built to look like a PDQ Circus King. it is being Kitted by BMJR
rad racer


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