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Author Topic: Spyder Wire Information  (Read 826 times)

Online Dan McEntee

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Spyder Wire Information
« on: July 13, 2019, 03:15:46 PM »
   Whose good at this search function thing? I'm just looking for the definitive thread on Spyder Wire, what to use, knots and such. I know this has been discussed at length several times, but I am amazed at what doesn't show up in a search! I think it was only three threads from ten years ago or so and not what I think I remember seeing.
   I flew with Joe ed Pederson today and helped him tie up a set of Spyder Wire lines for a Dick Sarpolus Beech Bonanza. I have 1/2A projects in the near future and just want to read up on the latest information. I remember guys cautioning against buying the wrong stuff on line and such, several different knots being used, rings on the end of the lines and such. Time for a refresher course. I know some guys are at the NATS, and to reiterate, I don't need to start a whole new discussion, just want to find what has already been discussed.
   Thanks a lot and type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Spyder Wire/Spectra Information
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 03:30:17 PM »
   Whose good at this search function thing? I'm just looking for the definitive thread on Spyder Wire, what to use, knots and such. I know this has been discussed at length several times, but I am amazed at what doesn't show up in a search! I think it was only three threads from ten years ago or so and not what I think I remember seeing.
   I flew with Joe ed Pederson today and helped him tie up a set of Spyder Wire lines for a Dick Sarpolus Beech Bonanza. I have 1/2A projects in the near future and just want to read up on the latest information. I remember guys cautioning against buying the wrong stuff on line and such, several different knots being used, rings on the end of the lines and such. Time for a refresher course. I know some guys are at the NATS, and to reiterate, I don't need to start a whole new discussion, just want to find what has already been discussed.
   Thanks a lot and type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

    PS to update the title. Reworded the search and included Spectra. Now it's REALLY confusing!!
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 04:28:40 PM »
Mr Dan,

Try "Spectra Braid Uni Knot" on Entire Forum for several hits.

Online Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 05:20:25 PM »
Dan I found this youtube video by typing in "Spectra line knots for control line."   I've seen another video with a simpler knot.     The video linked above was produced by a control line modeler.

Joe Ed

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 05:21:03 PM »
And then I cross-referenced that search over on RCG.

Key words came up: Dyneema, Spectra, Braided all in one search have more results. Then the two knots that appeared were UNI and PALOMAR.
RCGroups had several hits also.
I have a spool of this stuff, and also some camo .008" 7-strand. Of the two, I still prefer the 7-strand. But please, don't lose sight of the fact that I fly small models...under three feet and .061 engines. For comparison, my largest is a twin ..074 Mosquito that flies on .012" 7-strand. Maybe that has to do with why I haven't grown fond of the SpiderWire...dunno.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 05:38:57 PM by 944_Jim »

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 05:42:42 PM »
  Thanks for the input guys. My plans are for small models like 1/2A and 1cc stunt. I watched Joe fly hi Bonanza today and I think that had to be the first time I ever saw anyone fly a model on it. I just want to know what the preferred brands and sizes are, like for the 1cc stunt models in the 15 ounce range. I'll use some Cox Vipers and such as a test bed, and will start rounding up some hardware and such . I'm heading to Wal-Mart tonight to see what they have and there is a Cabella's near me also. I want to by off the shelf, not do on line for this stuff. I want to see it first. My son Sean got me one of those Southridge CNC Viper ARC kits that I would like to get to as soon as possible.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline John Given

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2019, 10:49:21 AM »
This is what Iím using on my 1/2A Combat wings:

Offline goozgog

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 02:03:25 PM »
John Given.  Yup!  That's the line I like
and can't get anymore.

   Sorry about the crappy pictures.
New cheap camera and it sucks.

The picture shows the Good Sufix 832
and the Power Pro.  The Spiderwire in
the middle is the type that tangles.

  Dan, seriously, make up some spools
to keep the lines from tangling.
The design in the picture is working well.
It holds the handle and separates the two lines.
It's also a fast way to roll them up.

  Hope I got you before your trip to Wal-Mart.


  I had a line break at the handle
when I didn't use a wire ring between
the line and the handle.
I say use the rings and do pull tests.

Cheers! - K.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 11:02:01 PM by goozgog »
Keith Morgan

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 10:14:48 PM »
I've been using exactly the same Power Pro 30 lb test as John. It works fine for 1/2As, and makes really good sewn hinges for planes all the way up to racing 40's.

Dave

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2019, 05:53:23 PM »
  Well, I stopped at Wal-Mart and the one in my neighborhood didn't have squat. The went to Cabella's and they offer a bigger selection, but was pretty picked over. I was thinking about the size models I intend to fly, and at a 10-G pull test for a 15 ounce model, that would be a little over 9 pound pull test. So taking that into consideration, I found the last roll of HI-VIS Yellow Power Pro 20 pound test. So I have to ask, even on a 1/2A combat model, which probably doesn't weigh close to 15 ounces and should pull that hard, why do you use 30 pound test? What we need is a handy chart to spell out what sizes line for model weights. This 20 pound test stuff looks larger than .008" metal lines. If I like these for 1/2A stuff, I may try some for larger stunt/sport models up to 45 ounces or so.
   I took a look at the local Bass-Pro store and they had a bigger selection yet and a few more brands, like Berkeley that I don't think I have seen anyone else mention for flying lines. I still have to find time to read up on search material, but thanks to everyone for the input.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2019, 11:07:25 PM »
Dan,

I think the 30 lb test is .011" diameter, roughly. The density is likely to be around 1/8th that of steel, so even with a larger size line, they will weigh less. Compared to .008 steel cable, perhaps as much as 1/4 to 1/2 the weight. The drag is going to be a little higher than .008" steel. (I haven't run any of the numbers. Too lazy.)

I think the industry is following the convention that "pounds test" means the minimum breaking strength. So if you apply a factor of safety (FOS) of two to the 30 lb line, then you never want to stress it above that number, or 15 lb. I think the highest pull test I recall for any 1/2A situation was 7 lb. So accounting for two lines gives a huge safety margin.

There was a lot of discussion about the spectra strength being "cut in half" if proper knots, use of lubricant when seizing the knots, and considering handling and abuse, and phase of the moon were not acknowledged. So I picked out the package that the fishing store had on the shelf that said "Made in America," and took my wallet to the checkout stand.

The higher rated line isn't necessarily wasted. Go read the opinions and some data on the line stretch. Since the goal here is to ensure all 1/2A addicts are capable of 500 point patterns, the issue of line stretch came up. As regards control feel, line stretch was postulated to be excessive using Spectra lines when sized to minimum strength values. Since I have yet to score higher than 8's on some maneuvers, I wasn't too worried about line response--but you can never be too careful!

Really wasn't too much more thought involved than that. And it works pretty good for 1/2A's. And especially hinges on any size plane you can fit into your garage.

The Divot


PS--The manufacturer's data for their 20 lb test line gives the diameter as .009". No reason it should not work fine.


Offline goozgog

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2019, 04:58:06 AM »
Not scientific but just for some perspective ....

  With the 12 lb Sufix made into
43 foot lines, I get about 2 inches
of stretch when I pull hard on the
handle. I'm guessing , maybe, eight
pounds of pull. Whatever I'm pulling,
it's far more than my 9 oz plane ( Cox.051)
will ever stress these lines.
I have never felt any stretch when flying.

  I'm flying stunt so using 30 lb test
for Combat makes sense to me.

  I wish I could get HI-VIS Yellow
Power Pro 20 pound test somewhere local.
The problem with all my spectra lines
is that they are invisible on the ground.

Cheers!  - K.
Keith Morgan

Offline John Given

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 10:55:30 AM »
John Given.  Yup!  That's the line I like
and can't get anymore.

   Sorry about the crappy pictures.
New cheap camera and it sucks.

The picture shows the Good Sufix 832
and the Power Pro.  The Spiderwire in
the middle is the type that tangles.

  Dan, seriously, make up some spools
to keep the lines from tangling.
The design in the picture is working well.
It holds the handle and separates the two lines.
It's also a fast way to roll them up.

  Hope I got you before your trip to Wal-Mart.


  I had a line break at the handle
when I didn't use a wire ring between
the line and the handle.
I say use the rings and do pull tests.

Cheers! - K.


The line is readily available on eBay.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2019, 07:58:30 PM »
I've given this a whirl and with only a couple outings, I have had good success. Seems just as strong as the brand name stuff, at only a fraction of teh price. Ordered from China on AliExpress. There are also other color and line weights avaiable. I chose this line color and diameter based on it was thicker than the dacron line I have here on a model.

Offline paw080

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 08:36:51 PM »


Hi Dan, I've never used Spectra or Dyneema for control lines, but I have been using both products for approximately

the last 26-27 years!  Not for fishing line but for two-line stunt kite flying. Here is some more fun research for you.

To all the readers of this thread, consider using Spectra made for kite flying instead of the Spectra made for fishing.

Kite Spectra/Dyneema is superior to the fishing product; It is has a tighter weave, less stretch and is a bit smaller

in diameter than fishing line.   Here's a few links to the kite Spectra:   https://goodwinds.com/catalog/line-winders/braided-spectra-line.html

  http://www.coastalwindsports.com/WhoseLine.html      In order to strengthen the Spectra knot, we(kite flyers) "Sleeve" the

line which adds considerable  protection for the knot: https://goodwinds.com/catalog/line-winders/sprint-sleeving-kits.html

Here is a discussion concerning Spectra Fishing line versus Kite Spectra found on a kite flying forum.
 https://www.revkites.net/forum/topic/6166-spectra-fishing-line-vs-spectra-kite-line/
 
Please enjoy and ponder all information you encounter;  S?P

Tony G   H^^

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2019, 10:52:35 PM »
I have used Spectra lines and I would switch to them in a heartbeat if they were legal in competition.  But they aren't so I won't use them till they are.  Hopefully someone with a little clout will resubmit a rule change that is properly worded and has a chance of passing.  IMHO these lines are superior to steel, even solids but they are different enough that you just can't go back in forth and expect to be consistent.

Ken
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Spyder Wire Information
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2019, 09:51:05 AM »
  ... I found the last roll of HI-VIS Yellow Power Pro 20 pound test. So I have to ask, even on a 1/2A combat model, which probably doesn't weigh close to 15 ounces and should pull that hard, why do you use 30 pound test? What we need is a handy chart to spell out what sizes line for model weights. This 20 pound test stuff looks larger than .008" metal lines. If I like these for 1/2A stuff, I may try some for larger stunt/sport models up to 45 ounces or so.
   
   Dan McEntee

Dan
When the Combat guys legalized Spectra they went with physical sizes of line that corresponded to steel cable sizes.  Reasoning is that they thought they had to prevent any line drag advantage for Spectra versus steel.  Thus the 1/2A line is way overkill, but represents .012 steel.  The 100# test Spectra they use for larger models is roughly .018 diameter, but almost double the strength of .018 steel at about 1/5 the weight.

When flying with this stuff what immediately becomes apparent is how slick and light it is.  No discernible line whip.  I have been using 65# & 80# test line for Stunt on RIngmasters, OTS & profiles up to 60 oz.  The drill up to now is to remove 1/2 oz to 3/4 oz tip weight, except for the All American Senior where I added 1/4 oz (so far) INBOARD tip weight!

Gander Mountain usually has up to 80# on the shelf but usually its in an "invisible" color for fisherman.  Amazon lists the full range of colors available, and spool sizes up to 1000 yards.

I have been using Power Pro, Power Pro Slick 8, and Suffix 832 brand line in 15#, 20# 40# 65# & 80# weights. 


Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

"The good old days weren't always so good, tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems..." - Billy Joel


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