Author Topic: Spectra line questions (Read 5274 times)

Steve Thornton · « **on:** December 03, 2013, 03:45:17 PM »

Gentlemen I have read most of the posts about Spectra and other braided fishing line, and have seen several experienced guys in my club using it for 1/2A and all the way up to 600 sq stunters. I made a set and the first line is 1 3/8" shorter than the second and my next attempt was worse...so I still have some questions.
I've seen the fishing videos for tying these knots, but haven't seen one showing how to tie these lines to get a consistent length? Can you splice the excess line by cutting it out and tying the ends together?
I am interested in the the single line approach, but will have to modify my handles. What do you guys use for reels? I rolled mine up on a plastic tube and had no problem but I'm thinking about making a handle/reel for each plane size and have seen a couple of great designs posted, but would like to see more.
Sorry if this sounds like my 3 year granddaughter's run-on questions, but gotta ask!
Ideas, suggestions, opinions, photos.....
Thanks
Steve Thornton

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2013, 05:04:18 PM »

On length...Tie one end of both lines, leave a couple FEET of extra (you need to fold the end over and all). Stretch both lines out together (yes the full length) and mark with a sharpie (permanent marker) at the same time. Now the hard part: when you tie the knot the wraps have to _include_ the mark when tightened up. The mark cannot be in the portion of line that will slide through the knot, the wraps won't move once the knot is tightened even as the knot is cinched down. When you tighten it around the thimble, or around the clip if you are not using a thimble, the mark will remain inside the wraps of the knot. Potentially the lines will be within the size of the mark of each other.

Yes this takes practice. The recommended 5-turn doubled uni-knot does not untie very well either, and not at all after it is taken tight.

1 inch *should* be close enough for most handles to adjust, even hard point handles. A cable handle will have no problem. If you use a thimble on one end a different length clip can be used to take up some of the difference.

Clips can be made from music wire. Take a two 10p nails and lock them in your vise at the desired spacing. A third real close to one end to capture the wire may make starting the bend easier.

I only use continuous line for 1/2a.

Spectra can be wrapped on a flat storage device, like thick plastic or thin wood, or cardboard even. I have a couple sets stored on fluted sign plastic cut sorta like a 1/2a handle.

Splices are not recommended, and are not permitted in competition.

Phil

Steve Thornton · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2013, 12:43:45 AM »

Thanks Phil that's exactly the answer I was looking for. I have tied dozens of knots but haven't had a guide and the Sharpie point is a great idea.
I'll let you know how they turn out.
Steve

John Rist · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2013, 04:21:14 PM »

I have been flying two String kites for 15+ years. We have been using spectra line forever - up to 200 test. Almost all kite fliers wrap their lines on a dog bone shaped winder stick. You wrap the lines in a figure 8 pattern. Too get the lines off of the winder you attach the lines to the kite, Hold the winder in the center and let the winder oscillate playing out the line.

I build my 1/2 line handles much the same way. It is D shaped with an ear on each end. A 4-40 screw in a blind nut allows a continuous line - easy to adjust. The lines are wrapped in a figure 8 pattern. Holding the handle with thumb and index finger allows the handle to oscillate playing out the lines.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2013, 07:16:38 PM »

Wish I could find the old fibre handle that used to come with 1/2A kits way back then. Used to wind the lines(Dacron) up on the handle. The handle and lines were permanently attached to each plane. Did not know about line clips back then. Has it been that many years ago. Also the number of planes I have been thru.

ray copeland · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2013, 07:23:29 PM »

John, nice 1/2a handle. I like the single line, ez adjust way myself.

Steve Thornton · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2013, 08:12:19 PM »

Quote from: John Rist on December 04, 2013, 04:21:14 PM

I have been flying two String kites for 15+ years. We have been using spectra line forever - up to 200 test. Almost all kite fliers wrap their lines on a dog bone shaped winder stick. You wrap the lines in a figure 8 pattern. Too get the lines off of the winder you attack the lines to the kite, Hold the winder in the center and let the winder oscillate playing out the line.

I build my 1/2 line handles much the same way. It is D shaped with an ear on each end. A 4-40 screw in a blind nut allows a continuous line - easy to adjust. The lines are wrapped in a figure 8 pattern. Holding the handle with thumb and index finger allows the handle to oscillate playing out the lines.

That's a great idea John. I think I will like the Spectra.
Thanks,
Steve

Bill Adair · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2013, 06:15:44 PM »

We use several brands of half-A handles at our field. Sig, Brodak, and Blackhawk models are the sources.

The handles make perfect spools for the lines when we are done flying, and we then band the handles with lines to the wing for storage. Single continuous line is the preferred method of attachment. Spectra does not care how you wind and unwind the lines on the handles, so I just hold the handle in my off hand, and wind the line rapidly around the long end of the handles.

What a time saver, and we never have to deal with getting lines crossed, line snags, tangles, or binding.

Bill
NW Fireballs club

mike londke · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2013, 08:58:39 PM »

Here is what I am making for 1/2a combat. Single line passes through handle, wrapped around wood screw with smooth shoulder 4 or 5 times, secured with rubber band. Lines can be stowed on handle. Easy to make, light and cheap.

Steve Thornton · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2013, 09:11:31 PM »

Quote from: mike londke on December 05, 2013, 08:58:39 PM

Here is what I am making for 1/2a combat. Single line passes through handle, wrapped around wood screw with smooth shoulder 4 or 5 times, secured with rubber band. Lines can be stowed on handle. Easy to make, light and cheap.

Mike that will be the handle for my 1/2A flying as well! Don't even have to make 2 lines of equal length. Problem solved.
Thanks for a great idea,
Steve

mike londke · « **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2013, 07:50:01 PM »

Your welcome. Mike

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #11 on:** December 21, 2013, 09:44:29 AM »

I have been using these "antiques" with SpiderWire for a while. While maybe not competition level the combination has worked well for me. I leave a loop in the end of the lead outs from the planes and use the small clips on these lines to make quick connections. I intentionally left tags on the line ends to check for knot slippage. none so far.

mike londke · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2013, 12:02:55 PM »

Wayne, I am not sure if you are aware but FYI the clips you are using are not AMA compliant. Mike

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2013, 01:28:34 PM »

Am aware. Am not an AMA member so I don't worry much about their rules. I place a premium on safety and I am sure that the clips are overkill in terms of strength for the application.

dave siegler · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2013, 05:08:16 PM »

what is wrong with that connector? There is no swivel and if it passes the pull test it should be fine. I don't see that in the rules for control line general.

John Rist · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2013, 05:47:42 PM »

Quote from: Wayne Collier on December 21, 2013, 01:28:34 PM

Am aware. Am not an AMA member so I don't worry much about their rules. I place a premium on safety and I am sure that the clips are overkill in terms of strength for the application.

AMA membership is important. The insurance alone is worth the price of the ticket. All it takes is some kid get his eye put out and your life can be ruined. Unless you are flying on you own land and don't allow anyone outside you family to be around good insurance is a must. I highly recommend
joining AMA.

mike londke · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2013, 06:00:28 PM »

Quote from: dave siegler on December 21, 2013, 05:08:16 PM

what is wrong with that connector? There is no swivel and if it passes the pull test it should be fine. I don't see that in the rules for control line general.

I did not say there was anything wrong with it. I was merely pointing out that it is not AMA compliant. But since you asked I will tell you. They reason is because they fail. I have seen this first hand. I warned an individual repeatedly about using these type of connectors to no avail. Then one day he lost line tension and when it rebounded and got to the end of the lines guess what happened? Both connectors failed and a fly-away resulted. The plane crashed 6 feet from the pits. The next time I see someone using them I will be more assertive in talking them out of doing so. I am just passing information not judgement.

RknRusty · « **Reply #17 on:** December 21, 2013, 06:43:27 PM »

Dang, Mike, I'm glad you didn't look at the Baby Streak I had in my trunk. I'da hated if you fussed at me.

But it's time to make some fresh line sets anyway.

Rusty

Bill Adair · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2013, 10:31:42 PM »

Hey Guys,

I'm still using line swivels for half-A, because I like those eyelets for tying Palomar knots with Spectra lines much better than the legal slide links approved by the AMA. I don't compete in any way, and have a very safe fenced in flying area, so there is little chance of damage to anything or anyone nearby.

I'm not sure why swivel links were ever outlawed for half-A in the first place, as I've never had one fail while fishing, or while flying. Seems to me that any documented failures seen with swivel links, were only with larger models than half-A.

Open for comments.

Bill

ray copeland · « **Reply #19 on:** December 22, 2013, 12:17:19 AM »

Hi Bill, AGREED!!!

mike londke · « **Reply #20 on:** December 22, 2013, 02:46:48 AM »

If I am fishing I will use fishing connectors. If I am climbing I use Black Diamond carabiners. On my skydiving rig I use Rapide links. If I am flying control line I will use control line connectors. All purpose built for the application.

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #21 on:** December 22, 2013, 04:33:46 AM »

I have been using swivel links for the past 60 years. Everyone says they are no good, but maybe I use a better class of swivel? I fly a very long way from any potential danger like people and houses. I have even had a speed 60 (vintage) come across the circle and twang the lines. It pulled out the bellcrank, but the swivels were fine.
I fly in the UK and on the rare occasions I fly at any meetings I always use rule compliant fittings. I will have to take apart a swivel and see what the potential problem is. I am not too old to learn!

Andrew.

don Burke · « **Reply #22 on:** December 22, 2013, 08:49:53 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Tinsley on December 22, 2013, 04:33:46 AM

I have been using swivel links for the past 60 years. Everyone says they are no good, but maybe I use a better class of swivel? I fly a very long way from any potential danger like people and houses. I have even had a speed 60 (vintage) come across the circle and twang the lines. It pulled out the bellcrank, but the swivels were fine.
I fly in the UK and on the rare occasions I fly at any meetings I always use rule compliant fittings. I will have to take apart a swivel and see what the potential problem is. I am not too old to learn!

Andrew.

i think there were two problems at the time they were banned. The loop opening straightening out as noted, and the tiny swedge that fixed the loop to the swivel would sometimes pull off.

But in retrospect, as long as the connector is NOT a swivel, IMO as long as it passes pull test it should be satisfactory.

Bootlegger · « **Reply #23 on:** December 22, 2013, 09:15:36 AM »

Couple questions, Mike L where are ya gettin the yellow fishing line, and what knot are ya tying on the lines?
I want a knot that wont slip when flyin the models, and I like the method that you have to adjust the line length.

Thanks and Merry CHRISTmas

mike londke · « **Reply #24 on:** December 22, 2013, 09:57:06 AM »

The knot http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=28401.0 The line http://www.ebay.com/itm/380705566297?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 Note: this line is for 1/2A only. You have to use bigger line for bigger models. Mike

Jim Roselle · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2013, 01:27:19 PM »

I've had a swivel link fail on a Tee Dee .049 powered Lil' Satan.

Jim

Phil Krankowski · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2013, 03:22:44 PM »

Quote from: mike londke on December 22, 2013, 09:57:06 AM

The knot http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=28401.0 The line http://www.ebay.com/itm/380705566297?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 Note: this line is for 1/2A only. You have to use bigger line for bigger models. Mike

This is out of the 2011-2012 CL General Manual

Quote

5.3.5.1 Spectra Lines.
Lines made of Spectra fiber, made of gel spun ultra high molecular weight polyethylene are permitted for sport flying and demonstration purposes. Spectra lines are not permitted in competition unless the specific rules for the event flown expressly permit such use. The use of high visibility yellow lines is recommended, but not required. For sport and demonstration flying with two lines, Spectra lines shall have the following strengths:
Aircraft Engine Watts Rated
Weight Displacement Spectra St.
24 oz .09 300 20lbs. .010”
40 oz .25 450 40lbs .013”
64 oz .40 600 60lbs .016”
75 oz .75 750 100lbs .018”
All lines shall be pull tested to 10 times the model weight. An aircraft must meet both the weight and power standards to qualify for the stated line size. Exceeding either standard places the aircraft in the next larger line size bracket. Aircraft shall be weighed with either a full fuel tank or battery on board.
Terminations shall be constructed using a 5 turn uni-knot, tied on a bight, or two strands of line looped back from the free end. An instruction film of the knot can be found at . The drawings below show a single strand for clarity, but should be tied on a bight. The knot is tied as follows:
1)

I notice it does not make a recommendation for 1/2A, but only for A at 20# spectra. I run 20# spectra for 1/2A. I use the power pro in high-vis yellow similar to Mike's link. In the video the uni-knot tied is not doubled. To double the knot you fold the end over before passing it through the hardware, after trimming there are 3 tag ends.

Phil

ray copeland · « **Reply #27 on:** December 22, 2013, 08:47:17 PM »

When i fly competition i follow the AMA rules! When i fly 1/2a in my backyard with spectra lines i use different colored swivels (brass colored for down and red colored for up) and 3 overhand knots, has never failed! This is with Norvel .061 engines. If you had a tee dee .049 pull a swivel out of shape something was wrong with the swivel before you hooked up. JMO

Author Topic: Spectra line questions (Read 5274 times)

Jim Roselle