Author Topic: OK Cub 0.49s (Read 4923 times)

Andrew Tinsley · « **on:** April 15, 2011, 08:24:54 AM »

Hello Folks,
I seem to remember reading that OK Streamliners were going to stop offering 0.49 Cubs at the end of this year. The owner retiring perhaps? Is this info correct and if so, where can I buy Cubs and glowheads? Since the closure of Virginia Hobbysport, I have no idea where to buy.
As a separate issue, is the reed valve Cub any better than the conventional venturi ones? I also seem to remember that you could buy a Cub that had a better performance, by careful component selection, is this correct? Finally with the dwindling 1/2A engine availability, what is the truth about the AP Wasp? Some people laud them and others say that the quality control is so bad that it is just a lottery as to what you get.
My interest in 1/2A has been rekindled by a young grandson, got to get them interested in the sport and I need to catch him young!

Regards,

Andrew.

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2011, 09:27:38 AM »

OK has stopped selling engines for some time now. Cox engines are available through Cox International in Canada. Typical price for a NEW Babe Bee or Skymaster (Golden Bee) is $40.00.
For kits check out: www.blackhawkmodels.com

Larry

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2011, 09:29:29 AM »

Stepping sideways from all of your discussion but the last: I very much wish that I had never tried to get my kids to fly planes with glow engines. Both the noise and the messing around with getting things started up helped to turn them off to flying (or at least didn't help to turn them on). Unless he's really showing signs of liking to be around when motors are running, I think a slightly bigger plane, with an electric motor, would be the way to go.

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2011, 11:29:09 AM »

Larry,
Thanks for the information on OK engines, I thought I should top up on glowheads, but seems I am too late! No problems, as I am well stocked with Cox engines of all types up to 0.9 plus spares and glowheads, not to mention Galbraith (sp?) heads! I was curious as to how the AP 0.61 and 0.9 stacked up for performance and reliability. I note that Hobby People are selling the 0.9 at $29.99, so I think I can draw my own conclusions from that.
Tim, you make an excellent point, my own son hated the whine of small engines and never really appreciated power flying of any sort, because of it. Electric flight is a total non starter for me. I would give up flying tomorrow if IC engines were banned, the attraction for me is IC engines, flight and models in that order. Being a Brit, I have a load of small diesels stashed away, these take very little in the way of fuel and are extremely quiet even without silencers. Maybe this is the way I should go for my grandson. I appreciate all the real and supposed advantages of electric flight, but having seen it, it leaves me totally apathetic to that form of propulsion.

Thanks to you both,

Andrew.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2011, 11:55:15 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Tinsley on April 15, 2011, 11:29:09 AM

Tim, you make an excellent point, my own son hated the whine of small engines and never really appreciated power flying of any sort, because of it. Electric flight is a total non starter for me. I would give up flying tomorrow if IC engines were banned, the attraction for me is IC engines, flight and models in that order.

I can see your point -- for me it's flight, models, and IC engines, so electrics are a great convenience. But I still love IC engines, and my response to a total US ban on them would be "well, I'd better learn how to mix my own fuel".

Quote

Being a Brit, I have a load of small diesels stashed away, these take very little in the way of fuel and are extremely quiet even without silencers. Maybe this is the way I should go for my grandson.

That may be the way to go. I'd further suggest that you make sure that you have your most reliable engine -- flying a plane is much more fun than watching grandad fiddling with an engine (unless grandad is also giving you an opportunity to expand your vocabulary).

I wish there were more diesels available around here -- I've flown the Cox 049 with the Davis Diesel conversion and I like it, but I've only got the one head and the last time I tried to use it I ate up all my head gaskets in a couple of days, because the engine had an air leak that was tricking me into using too much compression.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2011, 01:15:18 PM »

I own 15 (!) AP Wasps and have run, or seen run at least 10. Of these, 2 had tight cranks that were easily polished to a perfect fit. 1 had a loose crank that blew fuel out the nose, but it ran like crazy (cheerefully replaced instantly by Hobby People, and the next one was just fine). No, the fit consistency is not as good as Cox in the '60s and '70s, but nobody elses is either. One excellent thing about the Wasp is that the crankcase has a bronze bushing. Once fitted, it should run forever! For 1cc size planes it is my standard engine. Anything else I run is just for fun, not competition.

Andrew Hathaway · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2011, 01:46:00 PM »

The OK info in this thread is not entirely accurate, or at least it doesn't match what the OK website and catalog show...

http://www.okengines.com/news.shtml

Quote

On December 1, 2013, OK Engine Company, manufacturer of OK and OK Cub model airplane engines and parts will cease its' parts, engine, and repair services after 75 years.

http://www.okengines.com/products.shtml

Quote

OK CUB miniature glow plug engines are available in 1/2 A sizes of .049 and .06

Send $2 for catalog and shipping info.

I received a catalog from them about 2 weeks ago. While they're definitely slowing down, and the selection is very limited, they're still there. If you want something OK related, you might want to order their catalog, or at least email them and see if they have what you are looking for.

Their contact info is at the bottom of this page...
http://www.okengines.com/news.shtml

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2011, 02:05:14 PM »

Thanks Larry for putting me right about the small AP engines. I had a problem in believing any engine for $29.99 could have much going for it. Maybe I will give them a try, but keep my grandson strictly away from it! Tim, I wasn't trying to knock electric flight, its just that I like oily mechanical things! I know that electric must be overtaking IC by now, its just not my cup of tea. I shall enjoy fettling an AP Wasp rather than charging LiPos. The reliability thing is VERY important, but I have some PAW 80s that are more or less first flick starters, the attention span of grandsons is known to be limited!
Andrew, I certainly hope that I can get a few more heads for my Cubs. I suppose I have a love hate relationship with them or should I say nostalgia. I didn't know an 0.6 was available, so I may well try to get one and some heads when I am in the US in May. Thanks for the information!

Regards,

Andrew.

Bill Adair · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2011, 02:50:24 PM »

The later model OK Cub .049 engines with glow heads (not glow plugs) were redesigned to take Cox .049 glow heads.

Of course, that also means a number of after market heads will fit, such as Galbreath/Nelson, Merlin, Norvel, NV, AP .061, and others.

The cylinders are easily recognized by the step up in diameter, between the top three fins. Dan Sitter still has a few, and is selling them with Cox heads.

The later Cub engines with glow plug heads, retain the same small diameter from bottom to top fin. May have been a cost saving measure, and to use up existing stocks of glow plug adapters, and cylinders.

I'm currently breaking in a NOS Cub .049B, to test performance with the various heads. Since I don't own a Cub glow head, this engine sports a Cox 325 head, and it already starts easier than most of the Cubs I've run.

Almost constant rain this spring is seriously hampering my engine running, as well as flying, so it may take a while to get to the tachometer readings. No doubt I will need a bunch of head gaskets, with those high compression heads.

Bill

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2011, 07:15:44 AM »

Thank you Bill!
So, have I got this clear? The OK 0.49 glowheads are a direct swop for Cox glowheads? I never thought of checking the two glowheads together!
Do you happen to know if the same heads fit the 0.06 Cub? It looks as though the 0.06 would give more power for the same weight, or is it a different crankcase?
I wonder what the 0.49s run like, with the Galbreath head, should give a useful performance boost.

Regards,

Andrew.

Jim z · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2011, 01:12:16 PM »

Andrew,
Contact Henery Werner at, Wernerhenry@hotmsil.com
He is the owner of Virginia Hobby Sports.
He is residing now in Tucson arizona
and was selling Ok .049 engines and parts
at the VSC last month.

Jim Zichella

Bill Adair · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2011, 01:34:20 PM »

Hi Andrew,

Only the late model Cub .049 cylinders were enlarged to take the Cox glow heads, and all of them were sold with newer larger Cub glow heads installed.

If the top of the cylinder isn't noticeably larger in diameter (like Cox cylinders for 325 glow heads), or has a Cub glow plug adapter installed, it won't take Cox glow heads!

Has to be the later Cub cylinder, that came equipped with a late Cub glow head, not the glow plug adapters (which are all smaller than late Cox heads).

Early Cox engines also had a smaller glow head, but changed that to fit the Cox 325, and 1702 (TD) heads in later production. To my knowledge, the smaller Cox heads, were not the same size as the early Cub heads.

I've never owned or run any other Cub engine displacements, so can't help you there. All of mine are either original small bore long stroke Cub .049's, or the later Cub .049B's with radial and beam mounts.

A friend discovered quite by accident, that a Cub .049A engine he was working on, had a Cox 325 head installed! Did a little checking, and found several of our Cubs had that cylinder, but only if they had Cub glow heads. I never owned anything but the Cubs equipped with glow plug adapters, because I did not want to deal with scarce glow heads that have been out of production for many years. Just recently bought some of those late cylinders, and converted a NOS Cub .049B with one for testing with Cox size heads.

Hope this helps.

Bill

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2011, 02:05:40 PM »

Bill,
Thank you very much for explaining the complexities of the Cub 0.49 heads. I purchased a couple of 0.49s with rear tank, from Virginia Hobbysport a couple of years back, one had the glowplug adapter and the other had a glowhead, otherwise they were identical. I have a mixture of beam mount Cubs most with the glowplug adapter and some with the glowhead. All the glowheads look identical and they appear to be the same as I purchased as spares from Virginia Hobbysports.
Jim, thank you for putting me in touch with Henry, it is nice to know that he has not given up retailing completely. I will contact him rather than trying to obtain stuff direct from OK. It will be a pleasure to deal with him again, one of life's real gentlemen!

Thanks again,

Andrew.

Mark Boesen · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2011, 07:13:35 PM »

Hello Andrew,

Getting back to your original question: Yes, I think the later 'Reedies' were a little better engine. The .059/.060R engine was a very good engine, but unfortunately too little too late to help Herkimer (or the other manufactures for that matter) from the total market domination by Cox. The .059/,06 has the same case, but has a longer connecting rod and the cylinder is taller, easy to identify when shopping eBay by its natural steel finish. The 'later' larger (inside dia.) diameter cylinder came out in 1959-60 toward end of production and not so common as the earlier 'small' dia. cylinders.

The problem with Cubs, and most other non-Cox engines back in the fifties was the fact that they just didn't have the uniform fit as Cox did and you ended up with good ones and not so good, while all the Cox ran pretty good.

I'd almost think the cool set up would be a .059/.06R with a Cox glowhead!

take care,

Mark

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/049Collectors/

Bill Adair · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2011, 09:02:14 PM »

Mark,

Perhaps I should have tried the reed valve Cubs when they were offered, but I've always preferred the consistent runs of shaft valve engines. If OK had used a better needle valve, it might have helped the shaft valve engines run even better, but they continued to make those awful blunt end course threaded needle valves, until the very end.

Fox made the same silly mistake offering lousy needles, with their otherwise excellent (at the time) stunt engines. That created a few cottage industry sources for descent needle valve replacements, that should have been provided by the manufacturer.

Reed valves are great in larger two stroke engines, when they used an air filter fine enough to catch anything large enough to keep the reed from seating.

Bill

Mark Boesen · « **Reply #15 on:** April 21, 2011, 11:10:46 PM »

Hi Bill,

Your totally correct on the needles, thats probably why the Cub reedies were so much easier to needle, start and adjust...it was likely the needle!

I remember somebody trying to tell me the flat 'blade' needle on the o'l Fox gave it that 2-4-2 burp, when it was really cheeper to make!

Mark

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/049Collectors/

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2011, 02:58:44 AM »

Hi Bill,
I believe that the Cub 0.6 is still available from OK, well it is according to their website. That and the 0.49 reedy are the only two engines mentioned.

Regards,

Andrew.

George · « **Reply #17 on:** April 23, 2011, 05:04:26 PM »

Ever run across a Cub .049C? It was not in the original offering but I picked up one when Brodak got them from OK. It is a .049A tank mated with a .049B engine by using sheet metal. I don't know how long they made them.

It is the one in the upper left of the pic. BTW, the upper right .049B came in a long gone Comet Sabre 44.

George

Bill Adair · « **Reply #18 on:** April 23, 2011, 05:26:48 PM »

George,

That is the first Cub .049C I've ever seen, but that's not surprising.

Just read the OK history book this month (already returned to the generous lender), and didn't see any references to that model, but they seem to leave out a lot of things in that book.

Sad that the author spent so much time on hard feelings, and less time on worthwhile information.

Bill

Mark Boesen · « **Reply #19 on:** April 23, 2011, 08:36:35 PM »

Hey Guys,

Those 'rare' .049C where made by Ted Brebeck about the time his book came out, I'd guess and say he made a bunch of them, then set on the stock pile for a long time.

Its funny as they're somewhat collectable, no real value and only collectable to Cub nuts who don't have one!

The 049B with flywheel pully is from a Comet P-40. Its interesting that the Sabre engine had a red tank, usally they wheren't anodised.

Mark

George · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:21:00 AM »

Quote from: Mark Boesen on April 23, 2011, 08:36:35 PM

...The 049B with flywheel pully is from a Comet P-40. Its interesting that the Sabre engine had a red tank, usally they wheren't anodised.

Mark

Mark,

The Cub in the Sabre44 had an aluminum plate used to wrap a string on it, but I removed it when the Sabre44 died. Still have that plate around someplace. They later used a Cub .049B with a pull cord-starter in the Sabre44...I don't have any of those.

The two center Cubs in the pic above, and the lower right one were ripped out of RTF's and sold off, if I remember correctly. I did not have the RTF's. These came with glowheads (I assume the early glowheads). I have one more with the flywheel...it is currently balancing my tail-heavy Veco Scout (from Joe Wagner plans).

George

Mark Boesen · « **Reply #21 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:37:29 PM »

yep, the top middle is from the Comet P-40, that was the first ('59) Cub engine to offer the glowhead. The Comet P-40 was a very scale looking plane compared to the Cox P-40, but needed nose weight to acheve that. I've inclosed a photo of the last version powered with the Cub .059