Author Topic: newbie questions (Read 1831 times)

Augsburger · « **on:** January 28, 2010, 02:40:34 PM »

After 40 years I finally have the time to get back into the hobby which brought so much fun as a kid. I found and bought the same kit I built when I was 10 (Top Flite Combat Kittens) as well as an assortment of NIB COX .049 engines. I have the wing almost completed on the first model and it is ready for sanding. Could anyone offer any suggestion for now on filler and what grade paper I should use for sanding to prep for the covering? I'm waiting for copies of Tom's Techniques and There Are No Shortcuts, but am hoping someone

~^can get me started. I also haven't spent the hours needed to familiarize myself with all the subjects on the forum so please point me in the right direction so that I can do it right. Thanks for the help. Cheers

John Rist · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2010, 03:04:25 PM »

Wow,
Combat Kittens as your first airplane. Of course it is sorta like riding a bicycle -- you never forget. Not sure what you need to know but some one will comment and head you in the right direction. One thing you might consider is a ARF (Almost Ready to Fly) like the Brodak Baby Clown.

http://www.brodak.com/shop_productdetail.php?ProductID=8485

This will be a little less of a hot airplane and if you crash it you won't have a broken heart as well as a broken airplane. Anyway welcome back to the hobby and good luck!!

Augsburger · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2010, 10:22:59 PM »

Thank you for the great advice. And yes, the Kittens were pretty hot at the time, but I flew them a lot until my fighter pilot Dad decided to try. This will at least keep me busy for the next few. I will attempt to post pics as the project progresses if anyone is interested. Any and all help is certainly appreciated. I can already tell that this will be an addiction. (My other hobbies are Lugers and flying the airplanes one sits in...both also highly addictive...) Look forward to hearing from all of you, this seems to be a great forum with a lot of really helpful people on board. Cheers.

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2010, 06:53:52 AM »

I am looking forward to seeing how the build comes out. I am currently working on a .15 to .19 size "Demon" that we will call "THE IMP" and a Baby Demon may be in the works for late this year. When you get some time check out the combat wings we produce at Black Hawk Models.
www.blackhawkmodels.com
Welcome aboard
Larry

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2010, 06:54:58 AM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on January 28, 2010, 05:28:35 PM

After the paper has had time to dry, three or more hours, then you can apply thinned dope (60dope/40 thinner) with a one inch artiste brush. USE LOTS OF FRESH AIR DOING THIS. Be sure the wife is no where around, mine can smell dope from 1,200 yards, upwind , and I get to hear about it. Hey it's my garage, get out. Yeah, but her car is in there. Ya know what I mean??

Keep asking those questions, some of us live for this. Once a teacher, always a teacher

Hey Ty,
I busted out and doped the fuseloge of a small free flight model right in the front room of the house last night. The weather outside wasn't good, and I wanted to get it done. I "prepped" my wife and daughter by telling them "this might smell like fingernail polish." I wouldn't have done it on a large plane because of fumes. By the way, although I've never met you, did I see you compete in Texarkana last spring?

Hey Augsburger,
Welcome back, so to speak. I've been a beginner since I was a kid. I took about a twenty year break from CL beginning in the early eighties. I've been back at it now for a few years flying 1/2a. I love it and hope you have as much or more fun than I do.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2010, 12:37:18 PM »

Simpler, quicker and more durable solution, possibly even lighter!

I love Covelite covering from Hobby People. It is lighter than doped Japanese tissue, tougher than silkspan, needs no doping, is completely fuelproof, comes in a nice variety of translucent colors, can be trim painted, is iron-on and heat shrunk. No smell, no mess.

I would use Balsarite or Sig Stix-it (OK, some smell, but just on a small area, and one coat) to apply it over the open surfaces. On the wood, I use wood alcohol thinned 30 minut epoxy, two coats, sanding between.

Done! Totall fuel proofing at any nitro level, two day finising time max.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2010, 03:04:26 PM »

I've built several of the Combat Kittens. I thought they flew extremely well and much better than the Lil Satan I had. My current kitten now is covered in silkspan and has a clear finish only. I will never make that mistake again. I'm constantly chasing repairs on this one. Grass will even rip the silkspan upon landings. I use Monokote exclusively and use it on 1/2A models consistently. I don't feel weight is a factor and it gives great durability and ease of cleaning. I'm a big fan of silkspan but not on particular models especially 1/2 A's that are subject to cartwheel landings. I'm aware this is a wing and that style landing doesn't apply here. Good luck and we will wait for the flight report. Ken

Augsburger · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2010, 03:20:02 PM »

I will let you know how I decide to cover and dope. I remember that covering the wing gave me the most trouble as a 10 yr. old and I must admit I am still a bit apprehensive after reading all the variations members have posted. A bit overwhelming now but will decide soon. Type of covering, type of dope, best for sanding, mix ratios, apply cover wet, or, dry then spray, best dope for filling, etc. etc. I Have a free weekend coming up and plan on a hobby shop visit tomorrow so stay tuned for progress pics soon. Thanks for all the advice. Seems like covering and doping is it's own art form particular to owner with as many variations as builders. I will try to keep it simple for now. Hope you all have a great weekend and get some flying done! Cheers!

kenneth cook · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2010, 08:43:58 PM »

Whatever covering you elect to use they all have their postive and negatives. I can apply the silkspan faster than I can Monokote. There is a bit of instant gratification using Monokote. Some 1/2 A wings can turn into a pretzel if you decide to silkspan them. The Monokote can help sometimes in that case. The advantage with the Combat Kitten is the web spar used to make the wing. This isn't going to twist but its of very importance to be sure its accurate on the table prior to gluing the joints. Ken

John Rist · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2010, 07:04:58 AM »

If you have never used Monokote there are two problems. First of all it takes a certain amount of tools. You have to have a Monokote iron and a Monokote heat gun. The heat gun isn't absolutely necessary but it you really should have one. Second of all your very first Monokote job will look a little rough. As with anything it takes a little learning. However it is quite likely, although ugly, it will be quite functional. In the RC world airplanes get all of wood and open framing covered with Monokote. However for your application I would paint the wood and Monokote the wing panels. By the way if you do go the Monokote route you may want to use rattle can spray paint on the wood. It is cheep, fast and looks OK. Read through the posts and you will find many comments on what type of R-can paint is fuel proof. Anyway welcome back to U-control. Nothing beats the feel of flying U-control. You actually have the controls linked to your hand. Real pilots call it flying by the seat of you pants! LOL

Paul Smith · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2010, 08:51:42 AM »

I think MonoKote is a BAD BET for a 1/2A. Too heavy and it shrinks with too much force. Causes warping and possible crushing of the structure. If you must use plastic, use on of the cheaper, lighter, lower temps products.

On a 1/2A, or any plane for that matter, the fibre strength of a doped covering is nice to have.

Augsburger · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2010, 09:02:07 AM »

Off to the store to buy some dope. (sounds strange...) What is the best method for covering around the lead outs on the wing tip and still get a nice finish? I've looked at many of the pics here and don't know how it's done. Same for the wing tip with the support ribs extending from the last rib to tip. Would one cover separately or one piece from the wing covering? Will check back in a couple hours. Thanks everyone. Great help... Cheers

john e. holliday · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2010, 10:13:38 AM »

Cover the wing tips with a separate peice. One peice for the main wing. It takes practice to do it all in one peice. When I do I still wind up with wrinkles.

Augsburger · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2010, 11:11:44 AM »

roger

John Crocker · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2010, 12:32:53 PM »

Monocote works perfectly for 1/2A. Cover all my stuff with it. Sometimes use a little paint too, but not always
As for tools, a regular clothing iron works fine. I would recommend a hot air gun though, I think I gave $20 for mine.

Augsburger · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2010, 04:17:22 PM »

Since my kit has 2 planes I think I may try both although I am admittedly a traditionalist. Broke in a NIB Texaco COX .049 today. First time I've started one in 40 years. Burned 5 tanks at rough idle as per instructions, then 1 tank full blast. It's a screamer. Grin on my face and cuts on my fingers. Can't wait to fly the model when it's finished. Thanks for the help guys. Will keep you posted. Cheers.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2010, 04:22:11 PM »

OK, here are a few Coverlite covering jobs. 1/2A's (well, .061s, actually) all. The main surfaces are the raw film. No dope required. Colored paint is Painter's Choice "rattlecan" finish, usually over a butyrate dope base.

Augsburger · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2010, 11:11:20 PM »

Thanks Larry. I really like your style. Very nice. They all look like a blast to fly. I can only hope the wing tips on my kitten will look half as good as those on your Frite... cheers

Larry Renger · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2010, 12:29:01 PM »

The key is to realize that these are stretch-on films, not shrink films. Pull and stretch, don't count on shrinkage except for the tiniest residual bit of wrinkles. I did a demo for the club, where I had 3 of the 4 panels covered beforehand. Someone was admiring the work, and blown away when I pointed out that I hadn't shrunk the film yet! Think of where the film you need to fill out a contour comes from and heat that as you pull on the film. Keep working at it, until it is dang near perfect! The pair of books by Faye Stilley are the gold standard of how to! Read and believe!! You can get them through Flying Models 1800-474-6995 The first one covers the basics and is $13

Augsburger · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2010, 06:45:45 PM »

next question.... after some building and even more hours of reading the forum, which engine do you think I should use on the first Kitten? I have 3 to choose from, all NIB .049's. A Texaco, a Baby Bee, and a Black Widow. Apparently there are marked differences in the three? If so can someone explain please if you have the time? MODERATORS: If you need me to post under different topics let me know, I'm just trying to keep the post together from build start to finish. Cheers!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2010, 08:15:50 PM »

The Texaco is a special purpose engine developed to turn large props slow for a long time. It was intended for a particular class of FF model. Not ideal for CL. The Babe Bee is more powerful, but not vented for stunt flying. The Black Widow is your engine of choice for this application. It has stunt venting and twin bypass porting for added power.

Augsburger · « **Reply #21 on:** February 02, 2010, 10:48:08 PM »

thanks again Larry