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Author Topic: New plans drawn...  (Read 1321 times)

Offline jim gilmore

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New plans drawn...
« on: March 29, 2008, 03:05:18 PM »
Ok i've drawn up a pair of new plans for my next project. Though i've yet to try flying the last project.  here is a photo of what i've drawn. I'm looking to see which of these 2 side views seems more correct for 1/2A. Hopefully you can see them.
The wing will be a straigh 5.5" chord with flaps 1 1/8" and rroughly 28" span. I'll still be building them like a d"tube but reducing the sizes to keep it lower in wt.

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: New plans drawn...
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2008, 04:29:42 PM »
I decided I needed to add some color so here's another picture of the plane/plans.

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: New plans drawn...
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2008, 08:13:47 PM »
I like the look of the second one better...1/2A engines are so light the planes tend to go tailheavy; the longer tail on the first one would aggravate that. you might want to pull the back wheels forward a little more too. They don't need to be much behind the CG.

Have you developed a plan view yet?
--Ray 
Roseville MN (St. Paul suburb, Arctic Circle)
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Online Larry Renger

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Re: New plans drawn...
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2008, 09:17:11 AM »
I agree on the wheels, they should slope back about 5 degrees from the CG, otherwise you will never get a clean landing.  When positioned correctly, your model will sit on the three gear, but if you touch the tail to the ground, it will stay there.

Also, if you need gear that long to clear a 6" prop, your model would seem to be way undersized.

I calculate that you are going to get about 185 sq.in. wing, which is a trifle small (The Pinto has 230 sq.in. and flies great on a Tee Dee .049).  Also, the aspect ratio is around 4.25, which is very low.  With that low aspect ratio, the tail moment is too short and you will have a squirrely model until the CG is so far forward that it won't turn well.

Do what I, and most other successful designers do - scale down a successful big stunter, steal those numbers, then style it and construct it to suit yourself.  There have been a lot of man-years, blood, sweat and shattered balsa spent developing modern stunter proportions.  Darwin was most suredly correct, at least as far as model design is concerned.  You can vary from the numbers if you know what you are trying to achieve by doing so.

Currently, the best performing 1/2A kits are the Baby Pathfinder, Pinto, Hunter Stunter (restyle of the Pinto) and Baby Flite Streak.  All these are scale downs of very successful big models.

Keep on sketching though.  It takes a lot of thought and experience to design a really good model.

I disagree with minnesota modeler on the tail moment, as a longer tail adds only a little weight, allows a farther aft CG, provides more turning power and way better dampening of oscillations.  See my Skyfire and Sky Sport designs.  They both have very long tail moments and large tail surfaces.  They turn hard and stop exactly where you want them.  BTW, RSM is about to kit the Sky Sport.   #^
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: New plans drawn...
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2008, 04:32:15 PM »
Larry, in my experience, a bigger tail volume on a shorter moment arm still provides plenty of stability. to me it's more a CG problem than a moment problem.  The longer the tail, the longer you have to make the nose for balance, 'til the plane starts looking like Jimmy Durante.  I went through all that with my LittleAxe until you and others pointed out the obvious to me and I started concentrating on building a very light tail, from the wing back.  Openings in the fuse, covered with silkspan, etc.   

--Ray

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Online Larry Renger

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Re: New plans drawn...
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2008, 11:23:33 AM »
We use a huge tail on a short fuselage to great effect on the "Doodle Streak" modification of the ARF Flite Streak.  It works great.  Control is extremely smooth, but powerful and there is no bobble coming out of hard turns.  So yes, it can be done and done well.

However, dampening goes linearly with tail area and is a squared function of tail length.  Half the tail area need only be 1.4 times as far back to have the same effect.  When you have a long fuselage, the tail surface can be built very light, because the forces on it are small.  Always trade-offs!
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: New plans drawn...
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2008, 09:18:16 PM »
Hi guys and thanks for the constructive critism. I have a few questions. First off I realis that the pronto,pathfinder, and hunter stunter are all scaled up bigger than I'm shooting for. I'm looking at being someplace between them and the baby flitestreak,and baby clown. Kind of what should be a true .049 . if fox produces an .049 is there any gurantey<sp> that it will produce the power of the norvell or wasp? No i'm not trying to knock it.
Can you or somebody shoot me a few numbers from  maybe the baby f/s or baby clown.
or other models You like. Simple measurments I'm looking for are
1- front to l/e of wing.
2. chord of wing
3. if wing is straight fine or else I need tip chord.
4. distance from wing trailing edge to back of the horizontal stab.
if you would wish to take this off the forum and converse through email just let me know.
Yes The l/g as drawn on the yellow one  are about 3/4 inch off...And my wheels were drawn with a dollar coin.  Remember  I'm living in an rv and space is limited...time I got plenty of.

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: New plans drawn...
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 09:45:58 PM »
As for aspect ratio I came up with 4.64 which is between the 2 babies....


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