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Author Topic: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions  (Read 1498 times)

Offline Wayne Collier

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Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« on: May 18, 2008, 06:35:15 AM »
After a number of "rough" landings, it seems that the engine mount screws have become stripped out on my Golden Hawk.  I think part of the problem (no doubt compounded by my lack of landing skill) is that the gear, being clamped on by the engine, tends to pry the engine loose in a hard landing.  Since I may be putting on a new firewall anyway, I am open to suggestions for mounting the landing gear in a way that puts less strain on the engine mounting screws.  I know that one good option is to leave off the gear, but I sorta want it there for now.

PS I'm working on the landing skills.
Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
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Alan Hahn

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2008, 09:05:16 AM »
I am guessing the problem is that you need more "meat" for the mounting screws to grab. I'd drill out what you have to insert some 3/4" length hardwood dowels. The only question would be the diameter, but that depends a little on what screw size you are using now. I  am guessing 1/8 or 3/16 diameter dowel.

The gear is pretty "springy", so I am not sure what else you can do, except to try to slow down a bit more. If you are on grass I think you are stuck since 1/2a size gear is pretty inadequate on all but the very low cut grass field.





Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 09:43:41 AM »
1 choice - Make a double fire with the gear in the middle and a 1/16" ply around the gear.
2 choice - Cut a groove in the firewall to accept the landing gear wire.
Larry

Offline Wayne Collier

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 01:53:11 PM »
Hey Alan and Larry, thanks for the suggestions.  Actually I like what both of you suggested and I may try and combine them.  Lately I've been flying at a local softball field.  I've been taking off from the sand and worn down grass between the basis and flying over the outfield.  Usually the grass I fly over is two tall for a really clean landing and two short to provide much cushion from a hard landing.  As a kid, my brother and I often flew in a hay meadow--never a good landing but never much if any damage.  Later a friend and I flew often over a paved parking lot--lots of nice landings with an occasional disasterous crash.
Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
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Offline George

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 04:10:04 PM »
Wayne,

I have tried cementing some gauze over the firewall and landing gear, and also have drilled holes to thread some thin copper wire or even cotton string to hold the LG to the firewall. Of course the second method must be done before mounting the firewall to the fuselage.

Both of these ideas are from "back in the day" but should still work. Epoxy might be the modern equivalent.  8)

Fixing the LG to the firewall is a good idea if you have an engine with plastic mounting tabs.

Good luck.

George
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Online Paul Smith

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2008, 06:14:41 PM »
Similar to Larry's advice.

Put a groove in the firewall to neatly contain the LG wire.
Put 2/56 blind nuts behind the firewall before attaching to the fuselage.
Use fibreglass cloth or silk to beef up the firewall attachment.
Put a thin aluminum plate between the engine and LG.

Remove the landing gear and hand launch.
Paul Smith

Offline Bill Heher

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 07:07:29 PM »
The groove or adding ply spacers so the engine sits flat on the firewall is a gotta do.  You can reuse the old screw holes in the original firewall by cutting some 1/2 " long pieces of inner Nyrod ( you know - that R/C stuff) and using them for inserts.
You want the Sullivan Super-Flex inner rod. It is yellow and has a splined outer shape that locks into the ply pretty good and resists spinning. Drill the existing holes out to slightly smaller than the outer dia of the rod, put a couple drops of slow CA in the hole and press the insert in flush.
Bill Heher
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Offline nobler

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2009, 06:21:58 PM »
This is a typical design problem with Scientific, Blackhawk,, Enterprise, Cavacraft, or any Hollow Log fuselage with "V" landing gear attached to it. You have this (relatively) huge mass of an engine and LG assembly up front, compared to a very light (airframe) mass behind. The larger mass just wants to do what it has to, which is to conform with Newtonian laws of physics, and break away when a sudden stop occurs.

Definitely go with 2-56 blind mounting nuts, as mentioned.

A lot of times, the firewall wants to come off, too. I run a wood screw, countersunk, right through the middle of the firewall, into the front of the Hollow Log. Make sure you leave a lot of beef  in the Log front. Epoxy the screw in, since you are not going to remove it.

The groove in the firewall is stamped in all of the Scientific Musciano designs where the LG lies against it, but it often is indistinct, and doesn't really cover up the music wire. This gooove needs to be enhanced if you are building from a kit, or put into any scratch model. You can do this with a Zona saw or thin hacksaw blade.

If cementing the firewall to the Log, make sure you double glue. Better still would be epoxy, the long curing type. In either event, take the Zona saw or fine hacksaw blade, and cut very thin grooves into the surface of both the Log front and the firewall back. Let the grooves in one be about 90 degrees to the grooves in the other.  This will give the adhesive of your choice more "tooth", and not simply leave it up to shear strengh to pull them apart.

Hey, they fly better without gear! (But you need a launcher, the landings aren't much to speak of, you scratch things if on pavement, etc).

Currell

Online Paul Smith

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 06:34:29 AM »
Back in the olden days of flying ACTUAL Scientific 1/2A's wherever we could, with bicycles and transport, we had to deal with engine mounts coming off - a lot.  This was pre-epoxy, Testors glue or maybe Ambroid for the really rich kids.

One field fix was to glue it back on and add a dowel, stick, or Allen wrench stuck through the fuselage crossways.  This served and as anchor to rubber-band the engine and landing gear back onto the plane.  It became permanent, with the exception of replacing the gum bands.  Later on, Carl Goldberg picked up on this and used it on the Jumping Bean.
Paul Smith

Offline George

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 07:07:31 PM »
When I first built my first Scientific plane I held the LG in that groove with the engine in place. After landings pried the engine off a couple of times I cut the groove deeper with my tusty X-Acto and cemented it on with gauze to hold it in place. By extending the gauze around the firewall and back about 1/2 inch, it held the firewall on better too. At that time, firewall sides were the same width as the fuselage.

Somewhere along the way, firewalls started extending past the fuselage. Not sure if the firewalls were made wider or the fuselages narrower, but they stick out.

Currell, I could not have used that screw on my first ones because I was using a Space Bug Jr.  ::)  The intake hole was in the center.

George
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Offline nobler

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2009, 11:20:17 PM »
George. I use Fox 049s for Speed events, and Black Widows for Team Race and Stunt. The center wood screw is countersunk. Currell

Online Paul Smith

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 06:56:30 AM »
I believe the "oversize" firewalls in some Scientic kits were designed to fit the vacuum-former cowls (which were seldom used in flight).    When smaller stock was used for the "logs", the firewalls remained oversize.   The fix, (obvious) sand the firewall to fit the fuse and use fibreglass or gauze to hold the front end on.
Paul Smith

Offline nobler

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2009, 10:16:16 AM »
That is correct...the wider firewalls were used to attach the vac formed cowls. However, it wasn't because the fuselages were slimmed down. The models simply were designed this way. Examples are the Lucky Racer (a 50s design, before Scientific started counting pennies), Cessna 172, Flightmaster, Air Champ, Gee Bee, and a lot more. Other kits had smooth, non overhanging firewalls, like the ME-109, Stuntmaster, Little Mercury, etc.

At one Musciano Meet, I talked to the son of Mr Frisoli, founder and owner of Scientific. The way Scientific saved $ was fiddling with the wings, not the fuses.  As time moved on, the newer models had 1/8" sections, not the 3/16+" ones the 50s designs had. Also, the newer models usually had 18" spans, not the larger ones often used in the 50s, such as the Bullet, Cyclone, the larger F-51, Piper Cub, Stinson Voyager, etc. And, some models had their spans reduced over time. Examples include the Thunderbird, Little Bipe, F-51 again.

The margins were razor thin for Scientific. Fractions of a cent saved on materials added up, considering the large volume that Scientiic enjoyed then. But all good things come to an end (ask O & R, which seemed to have an unassailable position as engine makers in the 40s...full page ads each month on the back covers, etc).

Currell

Offline George

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 11:36:39 AM »
...At one Musciano Meet, I talked to the son of Mr Frisoli, founder and owner of Scientific. The way Scientific saved $ was fiddling with the wings, not the fuses.  As time moved on, the newer models had 1/8" sections, not the 3/16+" ones the 50s designs had. Also, the newer models usually had 18" spans, not the larger ones often used in the 50s, such as the Bullet, Cyclone, the larger F-51, Piper Cub, Stinson Voyager, etc. And, some models had their spans reduced over time. Examples include the Thunderbird, Little Bipe, F-51 again.
 
Currell

I can understand that. Mine were all pre-seventies. They all had the nice thick airfoiled wing. All you had to do was sand the mill marks off and you had a decent airfoil. 'Course the first few were built with such haste that some (most?) of the mill marks were still visible. Couple coats of clear, couple coats of color...off to the field.

I think most of the Scientifics I built "back in the day" had "Little" in the name: Little Mustang, Little Bipe, Little Devil, etc.

George
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Offline nobler

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Re: Need Golden Hawk landing gear suggestions
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2009, 03:24:20 PM »
Little Sabre, Little Stinker, Little Ace, Little Mercury, Little Spitfire, Little Ike...   Currell


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