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Author Topic: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon  (Read 4926 times)

Offline Tim Wescott

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My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« on: September 14, 2011, 11:34:57 AM »
The Ringmaster Fly-A-Thon is October 1st and 2nd.

http://www.flyinglines.org/11.ringmasterfly.pdf
http://www.flyinglines.org/Action.html

I don't have time to build a S-1, but I'm putting together a Beginner Ringmaster (all sheet, 1/2-A); I'm going to put a McCoy 049 on it, just because the engine hasn't flown a plane for 40 years.  I figure that if things get down to the wire and I haven't finished the plane yet I can just slap it together with CA, fuel proof it by rubbing CA all over it, and go fly.  I really don't intend for things to get that bad -- I'm planning on a tissue/clear dope finish, with colored tissue for trim.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 01:26:10 PM »
More parts cut out. The excessively perforated firewall is because I'm not sure just where I want to put the fuel tank: with all those holes I have six different mounting options, so I can change my mind on the tank later.

The original had you clamping the landing gear in place with the motor -- I didn't think that'd be a good idea with the McCoy, so I sandwiched the L/G wire between two 1/16" plywood plates, with 1/16" balsa spacers around the wire.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 05:28:05 PM »
If you nitro in your fuel, the CA is not fuel proof.   Three to six coats of clear dope will do a better job.  May have to see if I have a 1/2A Ringmaster kitin the shop.   H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 06:40:38 PM »
If it's just for the one day, I could fly it without fuel proofing at all.  If I fly it at the Fun Flyers field there will be a fireplace available.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 12:26:52 PM »
All mocked up, ready to glue in the wings and tail, make up the control system, figure out how to mount a balloon tank, and start painting.

I kinda messed up on the wing and tail slots -- I drilled holes at the ends (which was nice), then slit out the rest with a knife.  Unfortunately, my calibrated eyeballs weren't quite as calibrated for 90 degrees as I thought, and the slits were tilted.  Now they're too big on one side.  So I'm trying to decide if I want to make 'em straight and 1/32" oversize and put strips on the surfaces, or if I just want to slobber glue in the too-big slots to hold all together, or what.

At any rate -- progress is being made.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 03:25:49 PM »
All glued up.  I dusted the cracks around the wing and stab with glass microballoons and hit it with thin CA.  CA likes microballoons -- it smoked right off.  There was a learning curve -- you have to be careful about how you apply the glue or you'll raise a little pile of microballoons which will then set up into a hard mass. 

Of course with three cracks to fill, two underneath and one on top, I had to start on the top one.  Almost forty years of modeling and I haven't yet learned that lesson...

Airframe weight is 2.4oz, 4.6 with the McCoy 049.  So if the all up weight is 5oz when I'm done I'll be lucky -- it should fly fine at that, though.

Finish is going to be tissue over clear dope, with tissue trim.  It'll be fast, light, and reasonably good looking in a "doesn't cover the grain" sort of way.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 07:27:43 PM »
The other fellow in my RC club who actively flies control line just called me up, wanting to build a Beginner Ringmaster for the event.

!!!!!

He'd going to power it with a Norvel 061, and he's planning on scaling it up 25%.

Another fellow used to fly control line, and has a Beginner Ringmaster hanging on his wall, and may bring it.

So we may have three planes flying at the event, which is pretty cool when you consider that I was planning on just going and getting in a few flights...
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 10:44:05 PM »
I just put tissue on one wing. This is a new process for me, and I'm still learning it.

On the suggestion of someone here on Stunthanger, I'm covering the plane with tissue, then doping over that. It does wonders to fill the grain, if only I can get it to work right!

The first plane that I did I covered dry with Esaki tissue, doping as I went along. That proved to work OK, except that the tissue swells a bit when you dope it, so you basically have to get it wet with dope and then smooth it down for the first pass. This isn't for the faint of heart, or for someone afraid to get dope all over his fingertips.

I made some repairs using some tissue that was marketed as Peck Polymers "domestic" tissue. I've heard good things about this stuff, and I know that what I used was probably from about the time that they were getting bought by A2Z -- so don't think I'm dissing Peck. At any rate, that tissue is nasty stuff. I put it on wet, it didn't really shrink down, but it sure did swell with the dope! So the covering was a wrinkly mess, and it doesn't really match the Esaki for color (Esaki "white" is more a parchment color)

So for this plane I'm using (with trepidation) some "domestic white" tissue from Easy Built models.  Because I wasn't sure, I've just covered one wing to see how it goes -- it goes reasonably well.  They go on about how they hand-select this stuff, and it's certainly better than the other "domestic" stuff I have (which is going into the bin for Christmas wrapping as soon as I'm done writing this).  It's not as good as Esaki -- it's kind of a Buick to Esaki's Lexus, but it gets the job done.

I'm putting it on damp, smoothing it out and doping down the edges.  Once dry it's taut enough that it doesn't noticeably loosen up with dope, so I can just brush on clear without pain or fuss.  Putting tissue on solid wood should always be done damp, by the way.  I'm using a mister to just get it damp, then laying it on the wood, getting it to where I'm happy, and doping it down.  This stuff does not have the tear resistance of Esaki, but with care it works well enough, and its very easy to trim it off at the edges by lopping it over the edge and tearing it off (which gives some overlap, and the torn edge blends very nicely).

So I'll cover the rest of the plane the same way.  I'm planning on just doping it with clear and trimming it with colored tissue -- I want to get the last coat of dope on it this weekend, so it'll have a week to dry before the Roundup.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Joey Mathison 9806

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 08:31:38 PM »
 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1 y1
200 mph man ama#9806 joey mathison

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 10:29:08 PM »
You could have just marked a straight line and filed the slot square and used flaat stock the width of the fuselage and made it filled to minimize the gaps and make the joints perfect.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 10:34:45 PM »
You could have just marked a straight line and filed the slot square and used flaat stock the width of the fuselage and made it filled to minimize the gaps and make the joints perfect.

I almost did that.  I decided to come down on the side of speed over perfection on this plane, however.

The tissue covering is going well.  I did mess up the junction between wing and fuselage in one spot (fortunately it was the lower wing).
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2011, 06:32:08 AM »
 H^^   Tim I sent ya' a P M...
8th Air Force Veteran
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2011, 03:54:25 PM »
FYI:  Gil wanted to know where to get plans.  The answer is, Pat King.  Pat runs a little kitting operation, and does nice work.  I haven't built one of his kits, but I do have one of his kits and the workmanship is superb.  He's on this forum: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?board=75.0.

At any rate, it's been painting and sanding, sanding and painting for quite some time now. I'm not sure what I did, but the paper went down a bit mottled: I think I needed to put it on wet and paint it down right then -- but the plane will fly and be durable, so I ain't gonna complain!

This is my very first decal job. Other than having my nose rubbed into what I should have known -- that if you're spraying clear paint as fixitive, you shouldn't find a dusty corner of your shop to do it -- it's gone well.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2011, 06:18:00 PM »
It was looking a little boring, so I put on stripes. They're just red Polyspan (from Sig, originally, 35 years ago, although I suspect that it's really Esaki colored tissue). Cut with a scary-sharp X-acto knife, moistened, and stuck down with dope.

I also done messed up on the Ringmaster logo -- while I was doping the tissue down, I also went to put another coat on the decals. Oops -- the dope had only been drying for an hour or so, and it wasn't enough. So I raised a booger over the "by Sterling". Fortunately it appears to just be in the dope, meaning that if I can be patient and wait I can probably paint over it and sand it out.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Rist

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2011, 08:12:50 AM »
What I found works well for decals such as the Ringmaster logo is vinal bumper sticker material. It's heavy but you apply it to the outboard wing only in place of some of the wing weight.  Sealed mine with clear rattle can spray and it seem to be ok.

Hope to join the Rigmaster Fly-A-Thon
John Rist
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Offline Don Curry AMA 267060

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2011, 09:51:49 AM »
Tim there are several of us planning to do the Ringmaster event. So far we have not talked about which day we will do it or if we will fly both days. You are more than welcome to put up flights on mine if you feel like it. I did mine with a Saito 40 and throttle control. It is fun for me to do touch and goes and minor stunts.
Don

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2011, 10:18:07 AM »
I'm planning on flying Saturday with my RC club, at McIver Park.  But if there's going to be folks down at Delta Park on Sunday I will want to schlep down there, and may even make it.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2011, 02:03:44 PM »
I finally figured out the fuel tank.  I had left this to last, figuring that it would be a snap.  I always do that sort of thing -- and I'm often wrong.

At any rate, I had planned on doing some sort of a balloon tank, because it comes highly recommended.  The engine arrangement really 'wants' a tank that's mounted inboard, but where the difficulty came in is that the bellcrank is kinda in the way.  So here's my solution for now.  Coming up with a bladder housing was a pain; I just sort of stumbled across the glue stick top, and fortunately I had a spare in the kid's arts & crafts bin (a spare glue stick top, that is -- the actual glue stick seems to be long gone). 

This works out to a small tank -- I'm estimating about 7 or 8 cc -- but that should serve the purpose of putting in lots of flights well, and I think that later I can build a new bladder housing that conforms to the wing leading edge (back to the bellcrank) and gives me considerably more volume of fuel.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2011, 02:06:06 PM »
(I heard from Don this morning that -- barring too much rain -- they are going to be flying at Delta Park on Sunday.  So if you've been lurking, and you're in Portland, and you haven't made it down to Delta Park yet to fly or watch the flying -- go!)
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2011, 07:40:37 PM »
Hinges are my favorite for 1/2-A planes: figure 8 thread hinges. They're easy, cheap, strong, about as floppy as can be, classic, etc., etc., etc. 'nuff said.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2011, 12:16:33 AM »
OK. I admit: CF pushrods for a all-sheet 1/2-A plane is definitely over the top. But it's either that or a pushrod guide, and it looks kewl.

If I'm not mistaken, this plane is done and ready to fly -- all I need for Saturday is a handful of spare props, and I'm good to go.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline ray copeland

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2011, 07:44:34 AM »
Looks cool Tim !  I would be careful going inverted too late in the flight during testing, looks like with the tank mounted like that you could lose fuel pickup. Also, i would recommend picking up some of the Cox 5x3 almost unbreakable props sometime, they really do work well.  Good luck.
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2011, 08:41:33 AM »
Unless the balloon falls out of the holder I don't think I'm going to have a problem -- the pick up tube has holes along its length and extends about 2/3 of the length of the holder (it was supposed to be the whole length -- oh well).  So I think it should work pretty well.

Not that flying inverted toward the end of the tank is something I'm going to do soon -- I just lost a plane doing that (ouch!).
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2011, 08:56:25 AM »
Experimenting with balloon tanks, I have found that the attitude of the plane will not matter to the fuel flow.   Make sure there are no air bubbles in the balloon after filling the tank. H^^
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Offline PerttiMe

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2011, 09:28:31 AM »
How do you make sure there's no air in the balloon? Using a syringe, like R/C pylon racers?

"""""""
You must first evacuate the air from the bladder and then put the fuel in the tank. We use a Jett Super Tanker (JETT-30) to make this a one-step process. You first fill the Super Tanker with enough fuel to fill the size of tank you are using.  Then attach the Super Tanker to the line running to the carburetor on your engine. Suck all the air out and then push the fuel in. One operation with no danger of leaving some air in the tank… Very simple.
"""""""
http://www.darrolcady.com/Tettra_Tanks/tettra_tanks.html

Wouldn't that still leave a small amount of air in there?
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline Bill Adair

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2011, 09:32:13 AM »
Hi Tim,

Nice job on the little RM.  H^^

Have you decided where your going to fly Sunday?

Seems like the best support would be at Delta Park.

Bill
Not a flyer (age related), but still love the hobby!

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2011, 09:49:07 AM »
How do you make sure there's no air in the balloon? Using a syringe, like R/C pylon racers?

That's a really good question, and I don't know the answer.  I'm new to these tanks, only having a couple of test runs and a couple of flights on one of them.  I think that I'm going to fill with a syringe, suck out air, then fill again.  But I don't know

Quote
Wouldn't that still leave a small amount of air in there?

I suspect that a few bubbles won't be a big deal.

Hi Tim,

Nice job on the little RM.  H^^

Have you decided where your going to fly Sunday?

Seems like the best support would be at Delta Park.

If I get out at all Sunday it'll be Delta park.  My main plan is to go out to my RC club field and fly Saturday, then fly Sunday if I have time left.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2011, 02:23:47 PM »
Nearly almost finally really done.  I need to glue two pennies on the wingtip, and it'll be there.  5.7oz.

The tank is a bit of a disappointment -- it runs just great, but I'm only getting about 80 seconds of run time out of it, and that on a 6-4 prop that I assume is slowing it down.  I probably won't get to it until after the 'thon, but there's a bigger tank in store for that critter.  Figuring it out may be a challenge, but it needs to happen.  Had I really, really been thinking I would have moved the bellcrank back 1/2 an inch or so (or even 1/4!!) and notched the wing for way more tankage.  Some sort of wrap-around tank (I have some BIG balloons) will probably have to happen.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Rist

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2011, 04:42:22 PM »
Can't you turn the needle valve around and mount the tank on the outboard side?   Being old I have had a lot of visits to a doctor office.  I conned the nurses out of some large syringes. Cut off at mid point and drilling out the needle holder has made great balloon tank holders.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2011, 05:36:45 PM »
The needle valve is angled to point back away from the prop.  So if you turned it around you'd need to reach through the prop disk to adjust it, which would be awkward.

That's a good suggestion for the tank -- I may use it, if I don't succumb to the temptation to build a form-fitted tank that looks like what the fuselage on that side would, if the thing had a fuselage.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2011, 05:50:51 PM »
I always blow up my balloons and leave them for several days.  This gives them more flexibility and capacity.  It will sag into the corners of your container better.l   y1
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2011, 03:43:06 PM »
I got out flying today -- it flies great!  It was quite windy today, but as long as the motor was going strong it handled the wind quite well.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Don Curry AMA 267060

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2011, 09:58:10 AM »
Tim: I have a 1/2 oz. wedge tank in my parts bin. I will bring it out Sunday and if you can use it it is yours.
Don

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2011, 10:06:52 AM »
Tim: I have a 1/2 oz. wedge tank in my parts bin. I will bring it out Sunday and if you can use it it is yours.

Thanks Don.  I don't know if it'll fit -- you'll have to see the plane to appreciate why -- but we can certainly take a look at things.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2011, 07:24:49 PM »
I never posted the "done" picture!
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline ray copeland

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2011, 09:36:31 PM »
Very cool Tim!! I hope it does well for you    y1
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2011, 10:12:28 PM »
11 really short flights.  I will not stunt at the end of the flight*.  I will not stunt at the end of the flight.  I will not stunt at the end of the flight.

* That's a hard resolution to keep with this plane, as the end of the flight comes soon after the wheels leave the ground -- it really really needs a bigger tank.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2011, 03:18:06 PM »
Tim, I always had a thing for detachable firewalls too,,

looks pretty cute,, are you going to fly this for begninner in Salem? I am sure we could work out your pitting sequence,,
oh wait, thats right you have a flight streak that came to you ready to fly, you should bring that,,
oh wait, you decided to completely rebuild it so it ISNT ready to fly,,
well, anyway, maybe the Waix is ready?

seriously, thats a cute little bugger,,
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: My Ride for the Fly-A-Thon
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2011, 03:25:28 PM »
The current tank holds about enough fuel for one stunt.  Maybe two.  It was trying for three that caused the damage above.  So it's getting some better firewall reinforcing, and a bigger tank.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


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