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Author Topic: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt  (Read 1085 times)

Offline kevin king

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Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« on: May 24, 2021, 02:23:32 PM »
Trying to make up a set of lines for my TD049 Lil Tsunami, but it was a fail. Whats the safest method of making up the Ends? I heard crimped lines are a no no so I tried to wrap the 008 lines like the bigger ones, copper wire wrapped with brass eyelet. The line snapped just as I was finishing the 1st line!

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2021, 02:05:01 AM »
Kevin,

I would disagree with the statement that crimped lines for 1/2A are not good. For .008 stranded steel lines this works just fine. But, you need to scale down everything to appropriate sizes.

First, you must have properly sized crimp sleeves. I purchased some tiny sleeves from Melvin over at MBS. If you can just fit three passes of the wire thru the sleeve you have an ideal size. Trying to use sleeves with a lot of clearance is not good.

Next, you absolutely should use round jaw pliers. Anything else is just asking for trouble. And, when crimping, use less force than if you were mashing copper pipe onto a tugboat hawser for some piped .60 job.....   If you don't feel confident that you have the right amount, just make up samples on the ends and test-pull.

I wrap pretty much all of my stranded lines--but not the tiny .008's.  Too much work to do properly (using 36AWG copper) and not necessary.....

Dave

Offline kevin king

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2021, 06:47:55 AM »
Thanks for replies Dave and Motorman. I made the lines up as per the instructions on the package. After having the line fall off in my hand at the crimp four times I gave up. I have made up many sets of 008 lines before and never had this happen. I think it's the lines that's the problem. I could be wrong. Don't want to blame the manufacturer. You could be right about the way I crimped it. I think trying a larger line diameter (012), would stack the deck in my favor, unless anyone thinks it the performance would suffer to much. And maybe try using the soft wrap method again. Spent too much time on this plane to have a line break. I will try Tom and MBs and search locally for new lines, because that's the only role I had, and shipping to Canada is more than cost of the lines usually. Thanks guys.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 11:59:18 AM by kevin king »

Offline kevin king

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2021, 11:26:31 AM »

Offline kevin king

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2021, 11:34:10 AM »
MBS has a notice at the bottom of their page about international shipping not arriving. Check it out. Strange times were living in. I blame corona. Seems like things I enjoyed are becoming pointless lol.

Offline kevin king

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2021, 02:15:17 PM »
I made up a sample of the 008 wrapped twice around a copper eyelet, then 2 layers of serving wire, then sealed it in epoxy. Will try a pull test tomorrow, then 'oil can' it till it breaks. I have high hopes it will be better than the crimp method. Plus it only took 10 minutes to make. I will report back tomorrow with the results. Anyone else try this method? Kevin.

Offline kevin king

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2021, 02:26:34 PM »
Here's the eyelet. Don't mind my trigger finger. That's from painting 8 hours a day. Just chew them off and your good to go. 😁

Online Larry Renger

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2021, 08:05:53 PM »
I always use small aluminum tubes which I chamfer on both ends inside with an Xacto #11. Then with a second loop to lock the slippage, crimp twice with round nose pliers. Then, heat shrink tubing over the ferrule to relax the stress on the line ends.  As a final touch, the up line tubes were red, the down lines black.

Very durable setup.  👍
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2021, 10:32:41 AM »
Mr. King,
How did your line stress test go?

Offline kevin king

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2021, 10:56:42 AM »
The pull test requirement for 008 lines is 5lbs. I used double that. On the 1st pull test the Crimped end slid immediately then snapped. On the 2nd test the wrapped end lifted the full 10 lbs off the ground, then the wire snapped. See attached.

Offline ray copeland

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2021, 01:56:42 PM »
If you are not set entirely on steel lines why not use 20 lb. power pro, 2 loops and a Sig 1/2a handle that you can slide the line through for easy adjustment? I dismissed .008 steel lines a long time ago, too much hassle!
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline kevin king

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2021, 02:06:00 PM »
If you are not set entirely on steel lines why not use 20 lb. power pro, 2 loops and a Sig 1/2a handle that you can slide the line through for easy adjustment? I dismissed .008 steel lines a long time ago, too much hassle!
Ray, that was my very next idea. Are the Power Pro lines the same as the spiderwire(?) I've heard about? Are they equal to or better than the 008 lines in terms of performance and durability? The only non steel flying lines I've used for 1/2a was Dacron, and during flight it felt like the plane was attached to an elastic band!  Kevin.

Offline kevin king

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2021, 02:19:48 PM »
I always use small aluminum tubes which I chamfer on both ends inside with an Xacto #11. Then with a second loop to lock the slippage, crimp twice with round nose pliers. Then, heat shrink tubing over the ferrule to relax the stress on the line ends.  As a final touch, the up line tubes were red, the down lines black.

Very durable setup.  👍
Larry, here's what I use, a deburring tool. It will make the inside radius so smooth it'll look like it's been polished. Plus you eliminate that lovely feeling of the#11 blade going into the tip of your finger.😁

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Making up lines for 1/2a stunt
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2021, 01:23:49 AM »
Kevin,

1. The pliers you show work great for crimping. I use a similar pair for any lines I decide to crimp.

2. The pull test of 5 lbs is for the airplane, which means that for normal flight that load is shared. So your test was fairly severe if you applied 10 lb to a single line. That is 4x Factor of Safety on top of the FOS already built into the rules. To be successful with small models everything must be scaled down to match the real loads.

3. If you have the right materials and techniques, it is understood in industry (not just model airplane applications) that a proper crimp will withstand more load than the cable minimum strength quoted.

4. If you are damaging the wire inside the crimp, then you have the wrong sleeves, or are using an inappropriate tool, or crimping too hard. The sleeves must be made of soft material to conform to the wire. Deforming the sleeve work hardens it. Your description sounds like you may be using an oversize copper sleeve that is not dead soft.

5. I have purchased commercial .008 line kits and they had the same sleeves as used on .015 and .018 lines. This is ridiculously bad. No one would get a good result because the force to crush the sleeve will likely damage the wire. The amount of finesse is too high to get a consistent result. The solution are some of the tiny sleeves that are the perfect size for this. Soft copper. I got my stash from MBS.

6. The steel lines can be pretty fussy. Changing to Spiderwire makes all of that go away. You just have to tie the right knots to get good results. I like them just fine, especially if I am working with kids, since they are much more tolerant of mishandling. That said, I prefer the .008's when I'm flying a "good" airplane.

7. Dacron lines are horrible. Better to use them to make kites....

Dave



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