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Author Topic: Ideas on size!  (Read 1570 times)

Offline Bill Little

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Ideas on size!
« on: August 10, 2010, 03:15:10 AM »
OK, guys! 

I am asking what y'all feel would be an ideal size for a full fuselage 1/2A stunter (actually powered by a Norvel .061)?   I am thinking the Pinto, Envoy, and 1/2A Cobra (three plans I have) might be a touch on the small side for the Norvel, and I do want to "push" it a bit on size. 

I saw Bart's 1/2A Super Ares and it really got me going.  I have several planes in mind, just need to know how big (wing area and max weight) for a Norvel .061.

Looking forward to your comments, and thanks!
Big Bear
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 01:29:57 PM »
Bart's plane is probably about 200 sq.in. and powered by the Wasp .061.  Our Baby Magicians, the Pinto and Hunter Stunter run around 230.  I flew a Pinto with a Wasp .061 and really liked the power level.  I would not go over 250 sq.in. until I have something in that size built and tested.  I think that RSM's baby Still Stuka is at 250, but I don't know of any flight results with one yet.
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Offline John Crocker

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 02:47:36 PM »
I built this several years ago, semi scale.  30" wingspan.  Problem was it was heavy, around 15 oz if I remember right.  It flew, but would not stunt well.  Ray, Minnesta Modeller, built a full body call the Little Axe that he is VERY happy with from what I can tell and another that uses a diamond airfoil that seems to fly well. 



On AP Wasp Power, I've done very well with  profile models with wingspans up to 33" for single engines.  The key I have found is to keep the weight down to under 11 oz or so.
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2010, 03:12:15 PM »
My SkyWriter is 210 sq. in.,  30" span, about 9 oz., flies with a Norvel .049 very well.

LittleAxe in its latest iteration is about 220, 36" span--fairly high aspect ratio, maybe 12 oz., handles well with .061.

DubleDee Stunter, the "droopy diamond" John referred to above, largest of all: 240 squares, 34" span, light for its size--10 oz. It also uses .061 Norvel.  And flies like a champ.  I may offer it in a kit eventually if I can make it look a little more attractive.   Pic below. (I've already changed the nose.)

I agree with Larry, looks like 250 sq. in. is about the practical limit for .061, maybe 200-210 squares for a good .049. Anything over those sizes is going to have power issues, and even these need to be kept light.
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 11:40:02 PM »
With respect to the comments by Larry Renger, I have somewhat different opinion for a serious stunt ship for the  .061's.

During the mid to late 70's there were several good 1/2A stunt ships published.  One of the first was Dick Mathis' Pinto (Dec 72 FM)  It had a span of about 34 in and an area of around not much more tha 200 sq in.  This put a premium of needing to be not any more than the published weight of 11.5 oz.  The Pinto is basically a scaled down Oriental and at that weight, can fly very well.  This was with the Cox TD.  Several other ships were published around this size.  Several were slightly smaller but still flew quite well.

My Tercel was also around 33 in span and had 210 sq in of area at 11 oz.  (Sep 76 MA)  This thing won 1/2A stunt at the Nats three times and placed in the top three several other times.  Its power was normally the Cox TD but I also had sucess with the Cox Medalion .049.

Based on my observations and what I plan for the future using one of the .061 (1cc) engines, I think 240 sq in is a good area to go for.  And hold the weight to no more than 12 os and you can have a lot of fun.

Plans have been in place for some time to do a scaled up version of the Tercel to around 240 sq in for the Norvel .061.  (The AP Wasp would be an equivalent and is definitely more readiy available.  Weight should still be in the 12 oz range.

You can fly these things with those wing loadings on 52 to 55 foot lines.  Surprisingly, they do faily well in the wind.  The trick is to get a good tank setup for good consistent runs with the right prop to get the power and consistency from these small engines.

HOWEVER, probably the best flying 1/2A stunt ship is Bob Baron's Barecat.  (Jun 99 MA)  40 in span, 356 sq in area.  No flaps and 14 oz.  This is definitely a "purpose designed" airplane, but it works.  The key to how well it flies is its wing loading and big horizontal tail.  You might want to seriously look at one of these before you start off on your own.

Another comment about the Baron Barecat.  This thing is different and certainly represents a wide step from "thinking outside the box". 

Keith
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 11:30:58 AM by Trostle »
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 03:25:49 PM »
I saw the original Barecat fly at the 1980 Nats and was very impressed.  The one Keith mentioned is a bit different from the one I saw fly, but would still be an impressive airplane.  I flew in the 1/2A stunt event at the 1980 Nats and would like to know how it came out.  I had to leave after flying about halfway down in the second round, and was fifth at that point.  The basic advice to seek a reliable powerful engine run is multiply the basic secret to having fun with 1/2A size airplanes.

Dee Rice asked me about an .061 in a Pinto and I told him I though it needed a bigger airplane.  My Cheap Thrill is 36 in wingspan and pushing the limit for an O49.  I still have the wing of the airplane pictured, and if I build another, I'll put an .061 in it.   
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 01:35:48 AM »
Hi Jim,

A little bit of paint and decals and you would have a MK 19 (??) Spitfire! ;D

Bill
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2010, 01:40:55 AM »
HI Keith,

Thanks for the information on the 1/2A size planes.  I remember the Barecat and have a Pinto.  I just wanted to get an idea of the wing area, etc., that would be good for a Norvel .061 since I have a couple of them.  I don't plan on buying anymore .061s, or .049s. ;D

There are a couple planes I would like to think about scaling down for the .061, just need to know a good wing area to shoot for.  Seeing Bart's 1/2A Super Ares set something off in my head!

Thanks for the help with your Eagle (and everything else!), I am working on something there, also.

Bill
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 11:59:32 AM »
The .061 in a Pinto would be a great combo (I have flown one with the AP Wasp, and it flew great) as long as you use a lower pitch prop.  I flew with a 6x2 on 48'lines.  You could use a 6x3 and longer lines and be a really happy dude!
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Offline Roger Vizioli

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 07:22:05 AM »
Quote from: Trostle on August 14, 2010, 11:40:02 PM
...................................  ............................................
HOWEVER, probably the best flying 1/2A stunt ship is Bob Baron's Barecat.  (Jun 99 MA)  40 in span, 356 sq in area.  No flaps and 14 oz.  This is definitely a "purpose designed" airplane, but it works.  The key to how well it flies is its wing loading and big horizontal tail.  You might want to seriously look at one of these before you start off on your own.

Another comment about the Baron Barecat.  This thing is different and certainly represents a wide step from "thinking outside the box".  

Keith

Hi Keith,
Thanks for bringing up the Barecat. Mine has been hanging on the wall for years. You rejuvenated my interest to fly mine again (pic in album section, District # 5, 3rd row from the bottom).
It is a great flyer but needs "familiarization time" to do it justice.
Roger V.
IRKS CL - Florida  
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Offline George

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2010, 08:10:38 AM »
Has anyone built any of Steve Buso's "Little Legends" for competition lately?

George
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Offline Victor Jeffreys

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2010, 05:43:00 PM »
Baby Barnstormer scaled up 108 to 118% ??:
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Ideas on size!
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2010, 01:41:14 PM »
Quote from: George Bain on August 21, 2010, 08:10:38 AM
Has anyone built any of Steve Buso's "Little Legends" for competition lately?

George

Hi George,

Due to circumstances beyond my control (always wanted to use that line, even if it isn't true! LL~ LL~ LL~ ) I have not painted my USA-1 Little Legend.  I had to go back and fix elevators, they began to bind for some unknown reason, and got stalled.  With a Norvel .061, I am expecting it to fly about like a .35 size profile (at least in decent air!) and I just might use it in profile next Spring.

Mongo
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Big Bear <><

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