Author Topic: IBTW Barnstormer (Read 16361 times)

Clancy Arnold · « **on:** December 06, 2006, 12:34:11 PM »

Photos of my newest addition to the Barnstormer fleet.
Photo 1: Barnstormer fleet, Jack Sheeks Barnstormer with Fox 35 at 34 oz. My Baby Barnstormer with WenMac 049 at 5 3/4 oz and my IBTW Barnstormer with Cox 020 at 3 oz.
Photo 2: IBTW Barnstormer
Photos 3 & 4: Baby Barnstormer and IBTW Barnstormer for size comparison.
At last nights club meeting J.B.M Griner said he had a Cox 010 if I wanted to build a Micro Barnstormer.
The IBTW is 75% size of the Baby Barnstormer.

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #1 on:** December 06, 2006, 06:32:07 PM »

Very nice. You should be proud.

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #2 on:** December 06, 2006, 07:42:26 PM »

Thanks Russell
I got the idea reading about the Queen Bee and remembered that I had 2 .020's in the drawer. Was trying to name a Barnstormer that would be smaller that a Baby Barn and remembered an old song that went "She wore an Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny yellow polka dot bikini", and thought of a second verse "and He flew an Itsy Bitsy Tenny Weeny yellow polka dot Barnstormer."

Clancy
They are comming to take me to the rubber room!

Bill Little · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2006, 07:43:08 PM »

That's neat!

I have seen Banjock's "Micro (Baby) Slob", .010., and Tom Lay's Micro Ringmaster. You should give the Micro Branstormer a go!

Bill <><

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #4 on:** December 07, 2006, 06:37:47 AM »

The scale size reduction will depend on the size of the motor mounts. The metal tank on the 020 allowed a 75% size. If I had used the 020 with out a built on tank it could have caused the model to be much larger. The strange thing is that the 2 engines have the same bolt pattern but the plastic back plate / radial mount is much bigger overall.

I bought a roll of 6lb test monofill fishing line to use as flying lines. 32 time gravity each line should be safe. The roll is 400 yards!
Clancy

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2006, 08:39:14 AM »

Ran the Cox .020 yesterday twice. The tank holds 2.5 CC's of 25% fuel. First run was kept rich and the tank ran dry in just over one minute. The second run was leaned out and it ran one minute and thirty seconds. Plenty of power to pull the IBTW Barnstormer. Could not fly it in my back yard. Plenty of clear grass but 132,000 volt power line overhead!!

Even with monofilament lines, I would not tempt fate.

Will report on first flight when weather agrees.
Clancy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2006, 04:03:28 AM »

Nice work Clancy!! I admire anyone who can manage to build these tee-ninee planes.
Your Barnstormer theme is working out really well. I like the series collection approach.

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2006, 11:48:34 AM »

First flights on the IBTW Barnstormer today.
Weather at 1:00 Pm today, temp 46, winds calm.
Flew on 20 foot lines of 6 lb test monofil fishing line. TOO SHORT!!!
Flights were at under 2 sec / lap. Will try 25 or 30 feet next time.
The Cox .020 runs great. Beside the lap times, the only other problem is the flying handle. I used one of my 1/2 A handles which measure 2 1/2 inches between the lines and work good with a 2 inch bellcrank in the Baby Barnstormer but makes the IBTW too sensitive. Will make a new handle with 1 1/2 inch spacing for the next time. The IBTW looks great in the air. Sorry I was alone so could not get any pictures.
You Builders of the Queen Bee had better watch out for the speed of these small rockets.

Clancy

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2006, 07:18:31 AM »

Clancy;
We will definitely take note of the speed. I don,t want to dig a hole in our flying field.

Leroy

Bill Little · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2006, 08:30:16 AM »

How long are the flight times with your .020? I think I remember that you are using the stock tank.

Thanks!
Bill <><

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2006, 08:32:58 AM »

Leroy
The trick is to flip it inverted at half tank and then, if you time it right, you will be back up to ground level for the landing.

The tank holds 2.5 CC of 25 % fuel and runs about 90 seconds leaned out.
Clancy

PS It was the cheapest drunk I have ever had.
CCA

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2006, 09:12:25 AM »

Quote from: Clancy Arnold on December 20, 2006, 08:32:58 AM

Leroy
The trick is to flip it inverted at half tank and then, if you time it right, you will be back up to ground level for the landing.

The tank holds 2.5 CC of 25 % fuel and runs about 90 seconds leaned out.
Clancy

PS It was the cheapest drunk I have ever had.
CCA

I heard you can put the prop on backwards on the .020 and slow it down considerably.......

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2006, 09:59:29 AM »

Thanks Richard
I will try that.
Clancy

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2006, 07:47:00 PM »

Yup, the pitch is the same but the airfoil on the blade is inverted...works against the pitch. I guess it's kinda like running a lower pitch but at the same rpm. I had forgotten that but will keep it in mind if the Queen Bee is a mad hornet.

--Ray

Bill Little · « **Reply #14 on:** December 22, 2006, 02:12:53 AM »

Old "trainer" trick for the small engine planes.

Bill <><

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2006, 03:49:33 PM »

Gang of Mini Fliers,
Second days test flight report. Wind calm. temp 50 F.
30 ft lines. Engine needle set about 30 degrees rich from full out. Good steady run. Flight lap time very good, wife did not get a clocking. It looks like 30 foot lines are going to be the best. But I need to buy some of that Spider Wire (250 yd for $4.95)
as the cheep (400yd for $2.50) is about like flying using rubber bands for lines. The problem appears to be that when I would tell the IBTW to climb it would wait a quarter lap and then decide to comply. Same with telling it to go lower. A quarter lap later it would go into a dive and I did not have the quarter lap time to tell it to pull out!!

End result, broke my only 4.5D 2P cox .020 prop. I will have to cut down a APC 6 x 2 to 4.5 x 2 and bush the center hole a bunch. I think the IBTW Barnstormer will be a fun model to fly. With a new prop and 30 foot non stretching lines, it should do all right.

Richard, I did not try reversing the prop as I felt that it was doing good as is.

Hope to take it to the NATS for you guys to play with.

Clancy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2006, 06:24:09 PM »

Clancy.....your stories about flying the ibtw barnstormer have me itching to try my queen bee. What length lines would you recommend?

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2006, 09:24:28 PM »

Frank
I would recommend 25 foot lines to start. Then you can go in or out as you get a feel for it. My IBTW was too fast on 20 foot lines and it has more frontal area than the Queen Bee. Build up body verses profile also the bee has thinner wings so I would expect it to be even faster.

Good luck and most of all ENJOY.

Clancy

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2006, 09:43:15 PM »

This bodes ill for my 15' lines...

frank carlisle · « **Reply #19 on:** December 29, 2006, 10:03:49 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on December 29, 2006, 09:43:15 PM

This bodes ill for my 15' lines...

But Clancy's plane is 3 oz. can a ship (too grand a name?) that weighs in at under two oz. carry that much line?

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2006, 05:18:55 AM »

Guys
I do not know how much engine offset you are using but my IBTW has 1/16 inch offset in a 1.0 inch firewall. i.e. the left side of the firewall is 1/16 inch in front of the right side.
Clancy

roger gebhart · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2006, 06:39:46 AM »

Clancey; Seems like cox made an .010 as well. When are you going to start that one?

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2006, 10:09:20 AM »

Roger
I will build a Micro Barnstormer when I get a Cox .010 engine. The one I thought I was going to get to use is now in another plane. I would like to Beg, Borrow, or buy a running 010.

I plan to build it at 60% of the Baby Barnstormer. The IBTW Barnstormer is 75% size. The Baby Barn has a 23 inch WS, The IBTW Barn has a 17 inch WS and the Micro would be about 14 inch WS.
Clancy

George · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2006, 12:43:38 PM »

Clancy,

At one time, reports said that the TD .010 had about the same power as the PeeWee .020. Of course the TD .020 had more power than the PeeWee .020. When the TD .020 was dropped, Cox may have used dual ported cylinders in the PeeWee which would give them more power. I guess what I'm saying is that you might try a TD .010 on the IBTW size before reducing it.

Good luck, either way.

George

Edit for Pics: Ist-newer type TD .010, 2nd-older type, 3rd-optional tankless backplate.

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #24 on:** December 30, 2006, 01:39:26 PM »

Thanks George
I just checked the two Pee-Wee 020's that I have and both have 2 bypass ports.
The 020 that I am flying has a metal tank and mount, the other one has a plastic radial mount without a tank. Could that be why it flies so fast?

I am hoping to find a reed valve 010 for the right price. There is one TD 010 on eBay with an asking price of $70. That is way out of my price range.

Bill Little · « **Reply #25 on:** December 31, 2006, 01:15:54 AM »

Quote from: Clancy Arnold on December 30, 2006, 01:39:26 PM

Thanks George
I just checked the two Pee-Wee 020's that I have and both have 2 bypass ports.
The 020 that I am flying has a metal tank and mount, the other one has a plastic radial mount without a tank. Could that be why it flies so fast?

I am hoping to find a reed valve 010 for the right price. There is one TD 010 on eBay with an asking price of $70. That is way out of my price range.

HI Clancy,

To the best of my knowledge, the .010 has only been made in the TD version.

And some people think real highly of the ones they have!

Been trying to get a .010 for quite some time, now, myself. I saw Dan Banjock fly his Baby Slob (.010) at Brodaks on about 8-10 feet of line and it would do just like a regular Bi-Slob!

Bill <><

George · « **Reply #26 on:** December 31, 2006, 12:30:33 PM »

A big OOPS! on my part. I had ASSUMED that PeeWees were single ported like the original Babe Bees. I was wrong. I just checked my old red tank PeeWees and both have dual bypass ports. One is from the first batch to hit Lexington KY back in the fifties so I don't believe there were any before that.

I have no idea if the .020 cylinders were different between the TD and PeeWee, or if any of the later PeeWees were single port. My latest PeeWee is in a Cox Lil Stinker RTF, so I have no idea about the later ones.

I think Bill is correct about the only .010's being TD.

George

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #27 on:** December 31, 2006, 01:39:12 PM »

Just purchased a roll of "Spider Wire" and did a comparison test to the cheap monofilament fishing line I have been using.

Capt. Mick's 6lb test, .009 dia., Cost: $2.50 for 400 yds at Meijer Inc.
Spider Wire 6lb test, .009 dia., Cost $3.84 for 220 yds at Wal-Mart.

Test Setup: Preloaded 15 foot lengths of each line with 3 oz lead weights.
When an additional 12 oz of lead weight was added the Capt. Mick's stretched an additional 5 inches, The Spider Wire stretched an additional 4 inches.

Conclusion: Spider Wire has 20% less stretch for the same length and load.

Question: Will this be enough improvement?
Where can we buy .006 steel wire?

Clancy

George · « **Reply #28 on:** December 31, 2006, 07:51:23 PM »

Clancy,

I believe I read a thread somewhere that there are different types of Spider Wire. Although I have not checked out the different types, the word "fusion" was in the discussion. Don't know if that was the one that stretched or the one that didn't. Perhaps someone here knows the difference.

I have not heard of anyone using .006 wire. The smallest stranded I know of is .008, which is standard 1/2A wire (except for combat). It is hard to handle until you get used to it. Kinks easily but is very strong for its diameter. I would GUESS that .006 would be single strand.

George

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #29 on:** December 31, 2006, 08:07:20 PM »

George
You are right, the .006 was wishful thinking. I have a friend that is going to supply some .008 steel single strand for me to try. I went with 6lb monofil because my IBTW only weighs 3 oz, so 6 lb test line is 32 G's pull test each line. The AMA only requires a 5 lb pull test total. The monofil is .009 dia.
I will probably have to add more tip weight for the steel lines.
Clancy

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #30 on:** December 31, 2006, 10:02:54 PM »

Just went to www.cabelas.com and looked up "Spider Wire". The Spiderwire that is rated as near-zero stretch is the Spiderwire Original Braid.

Will look again at Wal-Mart next visit.

Clancy

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #31 on:** January 01, 2007, 06:53:31 AM »

Admittedly without any empirical evidence, I'm sure the Spiderwire I use does not stretch 4" in 15'. That would result in some mighty spongy controls. My planes are very responsive, seems like no stretch at all. I suppose I oughtta run that same test and report the results firsthand. I use "Fusion, 14 lb. test, 8 lb. diameter". Maybe the heavier weight makes a difference.

--Ray

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #32 on:** January 01, 2007, 07:40:45 AM »

Ray
We need to watch out, were into some serious Engineering here.
Testing, Measuring, and reporting. Next thing we will be writing formulas and the like.

He He.

Clancy

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #33 on:** January 01, 2007, 09:09:53 AM »

Virginia Hobbysport has Berkley steel .004 solid lines - two 35 foot coils. Might try it? http://www.virginiahobbysport.com/ Look under "flying"

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #34 on:** January 01, 2007, 09:12:20 AM »

Ray and the rest of the Gang Of Mini Fliers
I mentioned the frontal area difference between the Queen Bee and my IBTW.
Just finished measuring the total frontal area of the IBTW. It measured 14.483 sq. inch frontal area. How does that compare to the Queen Bee?

Russell
Thanks for the info, will order a set. Notice the slight price increase!

Clancy

George · « **Reply #35 on:** January 01, 2007, 09:43:50 AM »

Quote from: Russell Shaffer on January 01, 2007, 09:09:53 AM

Virginia Hobbysport has Berkley steel .004 solid lines - two 35 foot coils. Might try it?

WOW! Berkeley went out of business in the late fifties, if I remember correctly. Those are a FIND, for those who want to partake.

BTW, you think .008 stranded is hard to handle! Be VERY careful to not kink those solids.

George

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #36 on:** January 02, 2007, 02:47:28 PM »

Quote from: Clancy Arnold on January 01, 2007, 09:12:20 AM

Ray and the rest of the Gang Of Mini Fliers
I mentioned the frontal area difference between the Queen Bee and my IBTW.
Just finished measuring the total frontal area of the IBTW. It measured 14.483 sq. inch frontal area. How does that compare to the Queen Bee?

Hmmmm...I couldn't come up with more than about 13 sq. in. frontal area. Very thin wings, you know...Looking more and more like this may be some kinda hot rod.

--Ray

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #37 on:** January 02, 2007, 08:58:57 PM »

Gang of Mini Fliers
J.B.M. Griner loaned me a Cox .010TD to power a Micro Barnstormer. Now I have something to do!!!!!
Clancy

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #38 on:** January 03, 2007, 09:38:59 AM »

I should have also mentioned in the post above the Jack Sheeks also offered me the loan of a Cox .010 NIB!!! It has a MFG date of 1993 stamped in the box. J.B.'s engine has the original spec. sheet packed with it dated 3/61 and he had made several lflights on it in a round flying saucer C/L model. Nice to have friends.

The size of the engine back plate will require that I build it 67% of the Baby Barnstormer or about 15 5/8 wing span.

Clancy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #39 on:** January 04, 2007, 05:52:19 PM »

Clancy--you've already used ibtw for the .020 Barnstormer. What's the name for the .010?

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #40 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:05:04 PM »

Frank
I think I will call it Micro Barnstormer like most others have called their 010 size models. Like the Micro BiSlob.

Thanks for asking.
Clancy

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #41 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:44:37 PM »

Notice:
Started cutting wood for the Micro Barnstormer today. Will build it at 67% of the Baby Barnstormer plans. One change I have used on all sizes of the Baby Barnstormer is to not double the inner ribs and to sheet the four center ribs to give a better glue joint to the fuselage and leave space for the $cote to be secured to.
Clancy

George · « **Reply #42 on:** January 12, 2007, 09:22:04 AM »

Quote from: Clancy Arnold on January 04, 2007, 09:05:04 PM

Frank
I think I will call it Micro Barnstormer like most others have called their 010 size models. Like the Micro BiSlob.

Thanks for asking.
Clancy

Well, your choice, ..but since you call the .020 version IBTW, I would go with something like "Thong size".

George

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #43 on:** January 12, 2007, 03:20:34 PM »

George

Thanks for the suggestion.

If I called it that, what would I call the next one that may be a smaller one?

Bandaid!

Clancy

George · « **Reply #44 on:** January 13, 2007, 08:20:38 AM »

Quote from: Clancy Arnold on January 12, 2007, 03:20:34 PM

George

Thanks for the suggestion.

If I called it that, what would I call the next one that may be a smaller one?

Bandaid!

Clancy

Cork.

George

frank carlisle · « **Reply #45 on:** January 20, 2007, 02:01:56 PM »

cork!! ha ha ha..............

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #46 on:** January 23, 2007, 09:23:12 PM »

IBTW Barnstormer's little brother Micro Barnstormer is completed and ready for test flight.

It is built at 67% of the Baby Barnstormer. WS is 15 3/4 in, Wing area is 51 sq. in. weight is 2 oz. Power is a cox 010 TD. Had to build a tank so it should fly for 4 or 5 minutes on a tank.

Pictures will follow,

Clancy

Bill Little · « **Reply #47 on:** January 23, 2007, 10:24:43 PM »

Quote from: Clancy Arnold on January 23, 2007, 09:23:12 PM

IBTW Barnstormer's little brother Micro Barnstormer is completed and ready for test flight.

It is built at 67% of the Baby Barnstormer. WS is 15 3/4 in, Wing area is 51 sq. in. weight is 2 oz. Power is a cox 010 TD. Had to build a tank so it should fly for 4 or 5 minutes on a tank.

Pictures will follow,

Clancy

Post them pictures, Brother!

BTW: Do you still have your plans for you IBTW Barnstormer?? I want to try out the .020!!!!!!

Still trying to find an.010........................

Bill <><

Steve Kientz · « **Reply #48 on:** January 24, 2007, 05:51:31 AM »

Clancy, if your planes get any smaller they'll be rubber powered flying on 6' of sewing thread.OOPS there i go giving you ideas.

Take care
Steve

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #49 on:** January 24, 2007, 08:30:51 AM »

Bill
I still have the plans, they are 75% of the plans for the Baby Barnstormer which I also have. I could send you a set of the Baby Barn plans then you can make plans for both the IBTW and Micro size models.

By the way, did anyone recognize the full size Barnstormer in my original post. It is Jack Sheeks 1986 NATS Old Time Stunt winning Barnstormer. Not bad company!

Clancy

Author Topic: IBTW Barnstormer (Read 16361 times)

Steve Kientz