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Author Topic: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES  (Read 2630 times)

Offline LARRY RICE

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Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« on: April 16, 2008, 09:02:04 PM »
I have been looking at plastic fuel tanks that fasten onto engines and talking to some plastic companies. I think that the tank that came on the Testor/McCoy engines, with the arms for the mounting lugs to bolt to, might be ideal with some modifications. After digging through several boxes I found that I do not have a sample to take to the plastic shop to see if they can reproduce it. If anyone has one I would be glad to buy it.
Larry
Black Hawk Models

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2008, 10:36:15 PM »
Out of curiosity , are you condidering have it made large enough to fly the full stunt pattern on ?

Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 06:43:36 AM »
QUESTION: "Out of curiosity , are you condidering have it made large enough to fly the full stunt pattern on ?"

ANSWER: No, because it is not a good stunt tank for competion. It is a good sport or fun tank for the older style models. Stunt fliers should be using separate metal tanks of a size that allows the length of flight they desire.

Larry
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Offline Randy Bush

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2008, 10:25:58 AM »
Here's pictures of the Cox version:





Tatone made an aluminum version and Norvel made a long plastic version.  One can find pictures on Google. 
All these tend to be wider than the Musciano firewall.  The length has a major effect on CG location.  The configuration of the Cox Golden Bee tank is an example of a good compromise for reed valve engines.

In my opinion, two improvements would be venting that allowed uniflow and inverted flight.

Randy

Offline Dave Nyce

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 08:49:21 AM »
I have several plastic tanks that mount a 1/2 A engine.  I'll take a look and see which ones I have.

Dave
Dave Nyce   New Bern, NC 
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Offline Dave Nyce

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 09:41:29 AM »
Attached is a photo of the two types I've found so far.  I would be very pleased to send you either one or both.  Please let me know.

Dave

Dave Nyce   New Bern, NC 
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Offline Dave Nyce

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 09:43:52 AM »
Looks like the attachment didn't show up.  Here's another try.

Dave
Dave Nyce   New Bern, NC 
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Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 05:07:12 PM »
If you can stand the idea of a separate tank, there are two easy alternatives...

The plastic pill bottles from pharmacies, I've seen them in amber and red, translucent, hold about 2 fl oz. These are about 3.5" long and 1.375" diameter. Tank weight comes to about 1/3d of an ounce...

The opaque white or black 35mm film canisters hold about 1 fl oz. Even the snap-on-cap types should withstand muffler pressure... These are about the same diameter, but around 2" long.

I prefer the pill bottles, since you can see the fuel and the plumbing clearly. I like the type with a child-proof screw-on cap. The slipping child-proof over-cap can be removed by nipping its 'skirt' at a couple of places around the rim and peeling it off. Also remove the padded paper-like 'gasket' from the inside of the cap.

Only trick is plumbing them. The screw-on or snap-on caps are handy to work on separately. I set pill bottles up with two tubes - feed and overflow. First effort used 1/8" OD aluminum tube, flattened #4 split lockwashers, and a dab of JB Weld (slow). The #4 lockwashers, when twisted to lie flat, are a snug fit on 1/8" OD anything. I usually check that they are tight on 1/8" music wire.

Drill the cap for a tight fit on 1/8" - usually the drill bit stretches the nylon-like plastic and it will be tight enough unless you deliberately wallow-out the drill hole. Fit the feed, or pickup, tube so it rests against the wall inside the bottle near the back end. The overflow tube needs only to be long enough that the lockwashers and JB Weld can hold it securely. If you'd prefer uniflow plumbing, add the needed vent tube for it. I prefer using muffler pressure to the overflow vent, so a third tube isn't needed.

Wipe down the adjusted lockwashers, the drilled screw-on cap and the tubes with rubbing alcohol, at least in the area where you want the JB Weld to stick properly. Push the metal tube through the cap and fit it with a lockwasher to the inside surface. Fit another lockwasher to the outer side. Make sure the pickup clears the back end of the bottle.  Do the same for the overflow tube. (And uniflow tube if you're using one.)

Before socking the outer lockwashers down tight work a small dab of the JB Weld in, under and over the inside and outside lockwashers. Use an oversize tube to slip over the outer length of aluminum tube and something to back up the lockwasher inside the bottle to push the washers to a tight fit. Pretty up the JB Weld fillets inside and out. Use as little as possible to make each fillet, and clean up any that isn't on the tube and lockwasher in contact with the cap.

Assemble the cap to the bottle. Don't touch it for at least 24 hours.

For stunt, mount the tank so the pickup is on the outer wall, centered on the tank height. For non-stunt flight, rotate the tank so the pickup is about 45° below horizontal.
\BEST\LOU

Offline Dave Nyce

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 06:22:17 PM »
I think that Larry meant he is looking for ideas for building a tank that he would produce and sell.  And he may not want to sell a set of pill bottles, tubing, and epoxy for his customer to assemble.  Just a hunch.

Dave
Dave Nyce   New Bern, NC 
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Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 06:46:33 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion,Lou. The plan was to be able to mount the tanked engine on the older style planes like the Musciano ones and the profiles.
        A simple tank can be made with a small balloon, a piece of fuel line and a rubber band. To use it on a profile you will need something to support the balloon e.g. a pill container or wooden box.
        The reason for using the Testors tank is that it mounts in the same holes that the Cox one did an is the size of a Golden Bee tank. With the tank and $13,000 I can make it work and probably only loose $12,000 in the process. %^@
I am giving up the idea.  ???

Offline Wayne Collier

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2008, 06:55:03 PM »
Hello Larry at BlackHawk

I just wanted to take time to applaud your efforts at promoting 1/2a fun flying. ;D #^ :D  I think you're on track with the tank mount idea.  I would agree that there are more serious tanks for more serious flying, but it is sure hard to beat a good tank mount for ease of building and general convenience -- especially for young beginners.  Maybe someday I'll be in a position to buy another BlackHawk kit or two and help your business.  For now, I promised myself that I wouldn't buy any new kits or engines this year.  Gotta finish up some other projects.

 ???now just how many more months are left in this year ???

edit: I just noticed what you said about the cost. Maybe some other option will turn up.
Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
<><

never confuse patience with slowness never confuse motion with progress

Offline George

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2008, 08:51:46 PM »
BTW, the NORVEL crankcase is just a bit wider than the Cox but the mounting holes are the same. That translates to the Cox engine fitting in both mounts but the NORVEL may be too wide for the Cox mount. I had to do a little tapering on the top sides of my Cox mount with a file to fit the NORVEL (Big Mig) engine.

Perhaps it depends on the vintage of the Cox mount.

George
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Offline LARRY RICE

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 09:32:49 AM »
           Well, Wayne, Black Hawk Models has just finished a year of 1000+ kits sold. Each year we grow by 20% to 25% and I expect, with the new kits coming in and more people joining control line, to continue this trend. Unlike other manufactures we do not sell directly to the customers, this gives the hobby stores a chance to make a living and we feel that they are an important part of the modeling hobby. I do not want to sound like I am tooting my own horn but we are the only manufacture who donates model kits to worthy organizations and groups. I wanted to say that, not for praise but, so that others would get the message and do the same.
         We, at Black Hawk Models, want to thank everyone who has tried one of our kits and especially those who have introduced a youngster to this wonderful hobby of control line flying.
Captain Blackhawk

Offline Dave Nyce

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Re: Fuel tank for CS, BRODAK ENGINES
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2008, 02:49:27 PM »
Larry doesn't want praise, but he certainly deserves it.  He has been a great help with the C/L program I've been running for an orphanage in North Carolina.  We just built a batch of Musciano Stuntmasters this week (using kits that Larry supplied), and will be flying at the orphanage this Sunday.

Dave
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