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Author Topic: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf  (Read 5335 times)

Alan Hahn

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First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« on: March 10, 2008, 06:12:08 PM »
After opening my mouth about 1/2a Engines and changing to electric, here is a version of my first flight after work today.

I tried to keep faithful to what we traditionally call 1/2A----it was easier since I was planning to use this plane in Jim Renkar's 1/2A Contest where the only requirement was that the prop not being bigger than 6" in diameter, so that means no big prop turning slow rpms.

I chose the particular airframe because I already had it and used it in last year's contest, using a BlackWidow engine on the bulkhead mount. When I removed the BlackWidow, I weighed it and the plane--the Black Widow weighed 2.1oz (without fuel) and the plane, without engine weighed 3.9oz. Together the total weight was 6oz. I flew it on 42 foot 008 lines.

So I tried to find a power combo that was in the ballpark of a fueled up BlackWidow--probably in the 2.6 oz range. I think I came pretty close---the final all up weight of plane+ power system, including charged battery, was 6.9oz, about a 1/2oz or so heavier than the glow version.

I had to modify the front end of the Baby Clown to allow a place to put the battery, and to put the prop nominally where it was with the Black Widow. From the photo you can see I spliced in a 1.5" extension, with a small cheek cowl (to give me somewhere to bolt the motor mount to).

So here is the setup for electric costs
1) Gobrushless GBx1 Brushless Outrunner motor--this was a kit that I wound with 11 turns of 22 gauge wire to give a "kV" of 2250. Total weight including the motor mount was 36.5g (1.3oz)--$26.50 +$4.60 S&H
2) Thunderpower ProLite 2s730mAHr battery 32.3g (1.14oz). ($30 S&H free!)
3) Castle Creations ThunderBird 9Amp Electronic Speed Control (ESC) $26 +$4.60 S&H
4) JMP-2 timer control $30+$4.60S&H

Miscellaneous connectors ~$6

I don't include my charger since I already have it ($60), but one can buy chargers in the $30 range.

So today I flew it for the first time. Used an APC 6-5.5 Electric Propeller, setup for ~2 minutes of flying time. This time is consistent with the time to fly the beginner pattern (the contest requires only the beginner pattern for all skill levels). I wasn't too sure what to expect. The motor was able to turn this prop at 11.7 krpm statically on the ground. This sounds low compared to a Blackwidow ~15-16k rpm, although typically there I am using a 6-3 or 5-3 prop. I used 35 foot 0.008 lines.

I was pleasantly surprised to see the plane take off from the grass field and really fly well. As a matter of fact, it felt pretty fast (maybe too fast) in the air. Was easily able to do the whole beginner pattern--ok ok, not a great pattern! (first flight of the year). Finished with plenty of time left on the timer. I'll post the amount of charge left in the battery as soon as it finishes charging [added later---use 240/730 mAHr total capacity]. Only have a single battery at this stage, because I wasn't willing to shell out more until I saw how this would work.

Also will mention it was 33oF outside, but the wind was light. However most of the snow was gone!

Here is a link into the Electric Forum which gives more of the gritty details on how I got to this stage.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=8350.0
And here is a picture after the first flight. As you can see, I am using Larry R.'s RSM handle.


Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 07:37:17 PM »
Alan:
Got 2 words for ya: YEEEE HAAAW!   H^^ CLP** BW@

From following your build over in the electric thread I know this spiked a lot of interest. 

You test flew on 35' lines and you said it seemed a little fast ; Do you expect to go out on the 42' lines you used before?  I suppose there is always the option of lowering prop pitch too...

I realize the Baby Clown will never be mistaken for a stunt model, but based on your battery usage - it looks like you would have plenty of duration for the FULL pattern..?
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline fred krueger

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2008, 05:57:04 AM »
Alan,

Sorry I missed the 1st flight.  I may miss work again today....nasty bug.
Hopefully, I'll have my camera along when you fly this again.  I'll take some stills and video.

Your stooge,
Fred

Offline Jeffrey Olijar

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2008, 10:13:55 AM »
what is the max time you can get with your battery?  I might get that one if I can get around a 6 min flight.
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

Alan Hahn

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2008, 10:27:45 AM »
Jeffrey,
I think I would be ok at somewhere between 4-5 minutes, but it would take a few more flights to find the right throttle setting and/or prop. With a Lipo battery, you don't really want to suck out more than ~80% of its capacity---which would be (let me get my calculator)  580mAHr. This is roughly 2.4 x what I used, so perhaps almost 5 minutes can be had.

But like I said, 4 minutes of a 1/2 a is a lot of spinning. 1/2a is the "fast lane" of stunt. I don't know if I could walk a straight line after a 4 minutes flight. That's way more than you would need for a full pattern, unless I would slow this plane down.

I did bring some 42 foot lines, but today the wind is gusting to 20+mph. Maybe it will calm down by 5PM.

Alan Hahn

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2008, 10:47:00 AM »
Let me make one other comment about this setup. I don't think it is a good one for beginners (ignoring costs for a second). The main reason is that a Cox 049 is a tough little bugger, and can really take some crash abuse. The motor shaft on these small electrics is only 3mm in diameter, and is liable to be severely bent in a "1 point landing". You can get what are know as prop savers, which allow the prop to slip off the shaft in case of a crash, but I'm still thinking the motor shaft wouldn't take the abuse of a vertical dive into the ground.

I think  a beginner electric setup would be more reasonable as a pusher setup, with the motor at the rear. My picture is a highly modified 1/2a Sig Skyray, with a twin boom setup holding the elevator at the rear. Calling this a "highly modified Skyray" is quite a stretch I know, but I think it could be mode more or less using the Skyray wing, and some judicious chopping of the other parts. You could get balance by putting the battery forward, but you do need to provide some protection to it too in case of a vertical landing. So I see this as a next step. I would like to use my $10 motor in this case, to see how inexpensive I could make it. One reason I used a 2s lipo is that its voltage isn't that far off a 6-7 cell NiMH, so maybe that would be a cheaper (although heavier) option for a beginner plane. Also the charger for a NiMH is cheaper.

Now to find a 1/2 a Skyray in the basement!

Offline Jeffrey Olijar

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2008, 02:03:03 PM »
what about lil jumping bean with a foam core wing?  I think that would work better.  then you could store the battery and gear inside the wing. 

If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

Alan Hahn

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2008, 03:08:54 PM »
Jeffrey,
You have a good point--a foam wing would be great protection for the fireball lipo battery in case of a crash.

Alan

Offline fred krueger

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 11:30:07 AM »
I posted a short video of Alan's electric Baby Clown.  The flight was yesterday at noon.  After the flight, Alan realized he had mounted the wrong prop.



Fred 'The Stooge'

Alan Hahn

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 12:44:24 PM »
Thanks Fred--great movie of a lousy flight!

Two items, I had switched props from the original 6-5.5 to a 5.5-4.5 (and left the power setting alone). This prop didn't give enough thrust so that's why I didn't try any maneuvers past the square loops. I'm going back to the 6-5.5 and longer lines. That flight used about 0.19 AHr of the 0.730 AHr battery, so I wasn't able to "suck" enough power out of the battery with that 5.5-4.5 prop.

Secondly, if you listen carefully, a few laps before the wingover (loosely described!) you can hear a flock of Sandhill Cranes flying overhead (Northward!). That is that "warbling" sound in the background, compared to the normal electric motor sound. It is a welcome sound---at least they think Spring is on the way.  #^

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2008, 01:15:46 PM »
Alan,
May I suggest that you get in touch with Russ Gifford concerning your electric Clown.  Ya know, He loves electric!  LL~ LL~ LL~
Crist
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Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Alan Hahn

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2008, 03:50:55 PM »
Crist,
There is some real irony in your comment. My nickname for this plane  is "Win one for the Gifford" !  I'll also send you a PM.
Alan

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 05:16:53 PM »
Alan,
I got the email.   LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~

I love it!
Crist
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Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Alan Hahn

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2008, 12:24:54 PM »
Beautiful day today, very low wind, temps in the 50's, so I got my third flight in today at lunch. Decided to try a multiprop today. This is a "brute-force" 4 blade prop made out of stacking two 6-4 props. Left the throttle control in the JMP-2 the same as the previous 2 flights.

Plane flew really great. The lipo was slightly warm to my touch at the end, so I do need to check how much juice I pulled out this time. 

--added---pulled 0.31 AHr from the 0.73AHr cell (less than half). However for the ~2 minutes of flying, this would equate to an average current of 9.3A----or a draw of ~13C. This is just under the maximum rated average draw (10A), so I probably should drop the load a little. Need to figure out an easy 3 blade prop!

Here is a photo of today's setup, for your viewing pleasure.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 07:08:39 PM by Alan Hahn »

Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2008, 03:06:25 PM »
Hey Alan,
Why don't you try another prop?  A 6 inch 6 bladed prop.  That ought to make 'em squirm at Renkar's contest.   >:D >:D

BTW, I like the pilot!
Crist
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Alan Hahn

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2008, 05:20:09 PM »
Crist,
Well if there are enough threads on the prop shaft, I could consider it!

Yes, the pilot, of course, is the patron saint of electric controlline. I thought it was only fitting that I honor him with this plane.  H^^.

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2008, 03:26:51 PM »
Not trying to jack the thread I have a question on blades and power usage. Would trimming the blades 1/4 " reduce usage and increase rpm or ?   still trying to understand the dynamics electric flight.

Alan Hahn

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Re: First Flight 1/2A Electric Brodak Baby Clown Arf
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2008, 08:25:52 AM »
Jim,
Yes trimming the blades would lower the load. Right now I am using the original single 6x5.5 prop and it seems to work pretty good. Fred posted a picture of the flight on youtube on one of these threads. Here it is



The issue with electrics (and really with any power plant) is to find a prop which matches the capabilities of the engine/motor. On Black Widows, a 6-3 or 5-3 prop really works pretty good. On my Norvel Big Mig 049, I was trimming down a Black Magnum 5-3 prop to ~4 3.4 in diameter and that worked pretty good on a 1/2a Flite Streak flying on 42 foot lines (prop was turning >22000 rpm on the ground). With electrics, once the motor has been wound with a given number of turns, you need to find a prop which loads the motor correctly and also lets the plane fly well. I wish I could say I have it all figured out--I don't, which anyone could see by looking at the incredible number of different diameter and pitch props I buy for each electric setup I have. On the other hand I bought a lot of props for my glow engines too, but at least there I know I don't understand how to predict performance before trying out!


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