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Author Topic: Engine question  (Read 1074 times)

Offline ken cook

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Engine question
« on: February 06, 2008, 04:32:04 PM »
        I built a Sig Kricket a while back. This plane looks great. Unfortunately, some planes don't fly as good as they look. This plane utilizes a foam wing with abs wing tips. I hollowed the inside of the wing out. I  tried to keep this as light as possible. The plane shows a Golden Bee as a powerplant. This plane has a full fuse so I wanted to install a tank directly behind the firewall. Finding a tank to fit was getting to be difficult without cutting into the foam wing. I elected to use a aluminum mount from JK Aerotech which uses a clunk inside a 35 mm film canister. I moved the firewall back as much as possible and cut the cheeks back a bit on the fuse so the prop had clearance. I figured this would take care of balance. I bolted a new Sure Start onto the mount and put a 6x3 Master Airscrew on. Plane flew very slow and maneuvers were out of the question. I added a 1/4 oz to the tail and upped the nitro to 35% and switched to a 5 1/2 -4 Tornado. Performance was much better, I was able to go inverted and several loops including squares. Plane just still didn't seem to have it. This tank-engine mount seems to work flawless though including a long engine run. my line length was 42 ft. I could probably go to 35's. I recently found a brand new Tee Dee.051 cylinder and piston amongst some other treasures I had long forgotten about. It seems as if this plane is a bit draggy probably due to the foam wing which appears to be somewhat thicker than the traditional built up balsa ones I have. I think the plane just needs more power. Would my new found Tee Dee cylinder be too much on the Sure Start case? As for fuel draw,  I have the Killer Bee backplate with the larger intake to feed it. I have never installed a Tee Dee cylinder and piston combo on a baby bee case. I'd rather listen first then to destroy something I know I can't replace easily. Ken Cook

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Engine question
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2008, 01:36:51 AM »
As far as I know (which isn't very far) all the lower-ends on the Coxes are pretty much the same.  The only risk in trying would be to the .051 parts, since you can still buy the Sure Starts for about $8 or so.  I imagine it would bump up performance considerably.

You might try going to a 5x3 first, the prop you're using is probably overloading the engine.  Even a Sure Start likes rpms. Also 35' lines as you mentioned would be a good idea. 

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Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

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Re: Engine question
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2008, 04:01:15 AM »
i agree with Ray's advice - - use a 5-3 prop and maybe more nitro. You should gain some performance by adding a Galbreath Head with Nelson plug. Also remember that the TD.051 piston/cylinder assembly will provide exactly the same power as a TD.049 piston/cylimder asse,bly, except you're no longer 1/2-A legal!

Also remember that you should reset the piston/connecting rod ball joint after every flying session to minimize wear.
(Too many irons; not enough fire)

Ralph Wenzel
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Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Engine question
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2008, 03:44:38 PM »
Ken, the main thing to realize is that the sure starts have the same double porting in the cylinder as the Tee Dee so there is no upgrade. The sure start engines problem is quality control. there may not be a good of a fit between piston and cylinder and that would be your power loss. Otherwise these cylinders are as potent as a Tee Dee. You might get some more umph by using a Tee Dee head and by all means use a 5.25 or 5 inch prop and as much nitro as you dare. Cox engines love nitro! Do try to make sure your fuel has castor oil and not the synthetic. This has been proved time and time again.

I had one of those Krickets as well and it was lots of fun. I used a Golden Bee hopped up with a Tee Dee .051  and Tee Dee head. I used the Fox Missle Mist fuel and a Top Flite  5.25 X 4. It flew well but the wing is rather thick and draggy so do not expect lots of speed.

What kind of lines are you useing? This could make a big difference in performance especially on longer lines. I say keep them at 45 feet.

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline ken cook

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Re: Engine question
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2008, 07:49:53 PM »
           Rob, I'm using 42 ft .008's. The fuel I was using was SIg 35% nitro. I found this fuel in the 25-35% to be the best. I'm aware of the double porting in the Sure Start. I just think that having the exhaust ports being blocked as opposed to being open in the Tee Dee is quite a downgrade for the Sure Start. I've tried the Galbreath head on some Black Widows I had, but they suffered from what appeared to be over compression. I've went back to the high compression heads. These work well but get pretty torn up using the high nitro. I've been using the RJL adapters with good success and not a big decrease in performance. I will try the smaller prop. I have a 5x3 black on hand and some APC's. In the event I was to go with the Tee Dee head, would the Galbreath be suitable? I think this plane could of used a few more inches of span too. It sure looks good though. Since the use of the motor mount I've chosen,  it seems like it would of been a lot easier to have made accommodations for the Tee Dee from the start. I appreciate all comments and suggestions from all directions. Thanks Ken Cook

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Engine question
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2008, 09:02:13 PM »
Ken your doing just fine with the lines it seems. As well as fuel.

As for the exhaust port blockage, I understand your thinking however, if you have ever used an exhaust throttle sleeve on a Cox .049 then you should understand how little the Cox engines exhaust ports really need to be.

If in doubt get a digital tach you can trust and make readings between both cylinders and you will have hard proof to yourself the real truth. If you gain less than 750 RPM from the Tee Dee then the impact won't be much If you do gain more then you should  be able to tell the difference in the air.

I have heard that some of the Sure Starts need to have the rod reset out of the box. I have also heard that to get a really good runner that you must match a piston to the cylinder by trial and error to get a good fit. Such is the quality control. This means that most do not do as well as they could. Still It can easily be possible you did get a good one with a proper fit.

What I am trying to say is that the gain from using the Tee Dee Will not be in the exhaust porting but the much better cylinder/piston fit.

Robert 
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Alan Hahn

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Re: Engine question
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2008, 11:01:51 AM »
Slightly off topic, but Robert, you need to edit your personal profile and simply erase the zip code that you originally entered. This will stop the Board's software from trying to find the now-missing Weather site.  This causes some peoples browsers to load very slowly.

See the comment at the top of the window (under the tabs).

Thanks

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Engine question
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2008, 01:42:42 PM »
Slightly off topic, but Robert, you need to edit your personal profile and simply erase the zip code that you originally entered. This will stop the Board's software from trying to find the now-missing Weather site.  This causes some peoples browsers to load very slowly.

See the comment at the top of the window (under the tabs).

Thanks

Done thanks, Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!


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