Author Topic: Engine for my 1/2A Pathfinder (Read 4213 times)

Jerry Bohn · « **on:** October 03, 2007, 01:16:10 PM »

I plan on building a 1/2A Brodak Pathfinder to fly on 35-40ft lines. Any suggestions as to which engine would not make the plane too fast, but be able to perform basic stunts such as wingovers, outside and inside loops and inverted flying at a reasonable speed. I am thinking a Brodak .049II with a 6x3 prop.
I normally fly .40-to .46 size planes but want a winter fun toy for when my regular flying field is snow covered but a parking lot where I work is clear and dry. I do have permission to fly there but the size of the parking lot is too small for .40 size planes.

Vincent Corwell · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2007, 02:20:08 PM »

I have a Wasp 061 in mine, flew it twice on 35' lines
all I had at the time was .018 used 1/2 ounce of tip
weight, flys great, not precise but a lot of cheap fun
I fly 40 and 60 size as well but they are more serious
Tower do the motor
See my post May 30th also
Vincent

Bill Little · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2007, 03:30:25 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Bohn on October 03, 2007, 01:16:10 PM

I plan on building a 1/2A Brodak Pathfinder to fly on 35-40ft lines. Any suggestions as to which engine would not make the plane too fast, but be able to perform basic stunts such as wingovers, outside and inside loops and inverted flying at a reasonable speed. I am thinking a Brodak .049II with a 6x3 prop.
I normally fly .40-to .46 size planes but want a winter fun toy for when my regular flying field is snow covered but a parking lot where I work is clear and dry. I do have permission to fly there but the size of the parking lot is too small for .40 size planes.

HI Jerry,

Brodak has an .061 which is what I would look for, or the Wasp .061. Propping it will keep the speeds where you want them. The 1/2A PAthfinders I am familiar with are using Norvel .061s which are no longer available, I guess.

Bill <><

ray copeland · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2007, 03:41:08 PM »

Hey Jerry, my vote goes for the Norvel .061 , they are still plentiful on e-bay if you care to dare, i have bought a total of 12 norvels from e-bay without a problem, just go for the new in box. The big mig is my choice , even tho i run some ame's and the .049's just don't like to carry much weight. I also run the wasp .061, just don't care for the rc carb. Also, i think Sig is closing out the Hexdrone, comes with a new Big Mig Startup control line .061. Ray Copeland

Jerry Bohn · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2007, 04:00:50 PM »

Thanks for the tips men. Looks like my choice is between the Wasp.061 C/L($45 from Tower or Hobby People) or Brodak .061 ($53 from J&J).
I don't use credit card, so a Norvel from E-bay is out, but it is a good engine.
Any thoughts on the differences between Wasp and Brodak .061's.
As I see it,the Brodak uses a regular glow plug which is a plus. The Wasp looks like a more precision made engine, perhaps performance goes with that.
1/2A's, I don't know, new to them for C/L. Used old Cox engines in freeflight 20 years ago, LHS has Tee Dee.049 for $80.
I get the feeling a Tee Dee would put me into 1/2A Combat, plus their pretty proud of the engine with their pricing.

Bill Little · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2007, 04:11:07 PM »

Actually, Jerry, most sellers will accept a money order. If Sig is closing out the Hexdrone, I would say GO FOR IT!! The Norvel .061 is a proven engine, never wear out, just break them in according to directions. The Hexdrone would be neat to try out and you would get the engine that is very good. If the plug ever goes bad, get the Galbreath head/Nelson plug, and probably will never have to get another!

Those little things will sure get you ready for the big planes!

Tom Perry · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2007, 08:31:07 PM »

Jerry,

I've misplaced your phone number. PM me with your phone number. I think I can fix you up with a NIB Norvel .061. I think you will get a lot more exercise on 35 or 40 foot lines than you do on the "big ones" you've been flying for years.

John Crocker · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2007, 04:23:32 AM »

I've got a Big Mig Norvel .049 and have 2 (had 3) .061 Wasps. The Norvel is probably a better quality engine, but as you know they ain't making em anymore. Breakin time takes a bit and mine gets a little cranky from time to time, probably just the fact its an .049.

As for the Wasps, love them! I know its not a lot of difference in size, but there is a CONSIDERABLE difference in power in an .049 and an .061. Have 2 on a 44" wing plane right now and they pull with AUTHORITY! Flying on 45' lines it turns about 4 second laps, somewhere around 50 mph. With an APC 6X2 one engine will fly the plane.

Couple of issues with the wasps. You have to lock the throttle open. I stuck a paperclip in the linkage and wrapped it around the cylinder. Works and is easy. More importantly, the venturi is held on with 2 screws, one on each side. I lost them on my first engine with an unbalanced prop, they vibrated loose. With the 2 new ones, I loosened a 1/4 turn, put a drop of CA on them and tightened back, no issues to date.

Jerry Bohn · « **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2007, 08:16:06 AM »

Wow, so many choices and ideas, thanks.
I'm taking off this morning for a short vacation with the Mrs. up in the mountains in Estes Park by Rocky Mountain National Park. Only 20 miles from my house but a different world. Will be back Sunday afternoonish.
This will give me time for thought on the subject at hand, only new airplane magazine I have to bring to read is Flying Models, good enough, going for mind relax and enjoyment. Seems I may not be getting Stunt News for awhile and I've reread all 3 issues of Control Line World many times.
Tom I don't mind posting my phone number here, so it's 303-772-0141.
An initial email may save some bucks.
Catch ya all Sunday when I get unpacked.
Jerry

Larry Renger · « **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2007, 09:02:28 AM »

My vote is the AP Wasp. They like to rev, so the APC 6x2 or 5.7x3 are the props of choice. The Brodak is not powerful or terribly reliable until you add the Nelson head, which brings the price up another $25. At $45, the Wasp is a super bargain by comparison.

On my Sky Sport, the AP Wasp easily flies it on 45' x .008" lines. I plan to whip up a set of 48' and 50' lines to see if I can slow it down! This is using 10% nitro fuel.

I wouldn't hesitate to put that engine on a Baby Pathfinder, but with the short lines you need to use, keep the weight around 10 ounces or less to be able to do a clean pattern. Clear dope only on the wood and Coverlite on the wings! Minimal wheels from a park flyer. If you can go longer lines, the plane can go faster and be heavier.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2007, 04:22:07 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on October 04, 2007, 09:02:28 AM

My vote is the AP Wasp. They like to rev, so the APC 6x2 or 5.7x3 are the props of choice. The Brodak is not powerful or terribly reliable until you add the Nelson head, which brings the price up another $25. At $45, the Wasp is a super bargain by comparison.

On my Sky Sport, the AP Wasp easily flies it on 45' x .008" lines. I plan to whip up a set of 48' and 50' lines to see if I can slow it down! This is using 10% nitro fuel.

I wouldn't hesitate to put that engine on a Baby Pathfinder, but with the short lines you need to use, keep the weight around 10 ounces or less to be able to do a clean pattern. Clear dope only on the wood and Coverlite on the wings! Minimal wheels from a park flyer. If you can go longer lines, the plane can go faster and be heavier.

Wow Larry, has the price jumped that much? Last Galbreath heads I bought were $10 ea. Nelson plugs have gone up I know, but from $3.50 to $4.25 or something, still a bargain.

Concerning line length, you know I fly my LittleAxe with a Norvel .061 on 48' lines. It's amazing how much stronger the .061s are than the .049s.

--Ray

John Crocker · « **Reply #11 on:** October 04, 2007, 04:24:05 PM »

Obviously I vote for the wasp too. I run the 6x2 APC but run 20% powemaster cause its what I could find. If you prop it with a 6x3 APC (preferred brand, they seem to rev better, maybe they are lighter) or Master Airscrew (easier to find in my area if you come up short like I do often) you should be able to run slower for the line length you mentioned. I do that often on my Green Giant (30" span) when flying in front of the house on the culdesac on 30' lines.

Only problem with shorter lines is you become a little more limited. The farther the plane is away from you, the easier it is to do complex manuevers. When I fly on 30' lines, I've finally learned to do nothing but inside loops and wing overs. I get turned around in my head too fast on short lines when I get into flying inverted and fig 8's. And I forget all about outside loops, I'm lucky if I can do them on 45' lines, just cant seem to get enough altitude.

But all that being said, I'm an expert at crashing, novice at manuevers.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #12 on:** October 04, 2007, 07:32:01 PM »

You oughtta see the eights (lazy and AMA), outside loops, etc. that my little .020 baby Skywriter does on 15' lines! You just have to be fast and have your timing down...

only thing I can't get out of it are decent squares...just happens too fast, can't get the corners in.

--Ray

John Crocker · « **Reply #13 on:** October 04, 2007, 08:10:21 PM »

Oh I know its entirely possible, especially for someone who has more stunt experience than I have. In my case though, a true outside loop is a 3 in 4 chance at a rebuild at best. I can fly wingovers all day and come out of those inverted, or throw it through a 3/4 outside loop. Fig 8's are not usually a problem, but if I try for a true normal flight with a climb to an outside loop, forget about it.

George · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2007, 06:35:40 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Bohn on October 03, 2007, 04:00:50 PM

...Used old Cox engines in freeflight 20 years ago, LHS has Tee Dee.049 for $80.
I get the feeling a Tee Dee would put me into 1/2A Combat, plus their pretty proud of the engine with their pricing.

Jerry,
The LHS is not gouging, the RETAIL price for the later Tee Dees was pretty high. Many got them off the online Cox site at the last. I believe they had made the decision to sell them online cheaply to try and compete with foreign products.

George

Larry Renger · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2007, 10:02:03 AM »

The Nelson head for most 1/2As such as the AP Wasp, C*x and Norvel is made by Doug Galbreath, and is quite small. The one for the Brodak has to replace the entire fin unit and is made by Henry Nelson. Quite different pieces of work. That is the reason for the price difference.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2007, 08:00:30 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on October 05, 2007, 10:02:03 AM

The Nelson head for most 1/2As such as the AP Wasp, C*x and Norvel is made by Doug Galbreath, and is quite small. The one for the Brodak has to replace the entire fin unit and is made by Henry Nelson. Quite different pieces of work. That is the reason for the price difference.

I did not know that...my apologies. Completey understandable price difference.

--Ray

Larry Renger · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2007, 06:56:42 PM »

No problemo! There is an awful lot of information out there, and we need to share it. That is what this website is all about.

ray copeland · « **Reply #18 on:** October 07, 2007, 02:27:18 AM »

If all goes well i will be at Huntersville on the 20th, bring your AP wasp 061 engines , with or without plane, for some friendly comparisons. I would like to see how they stand-up against the Norvels for my self, i only have one AP to compare against. Maybe we could check for instance,, RPM, pulling power with a load, ease of starting, etc,. Thanks, Ray Copeland

John Crocker · « **Reply #19 on:** October 07, 2007, 04:38:26 PM »

I'm going to try and be at the Huntersville contest as well. Not flying, just watching and visiting. Will bring mine if I can get there.

Jerry Bohn · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2007, 11:33:36 AM »

While on vacation and returning I have been rethinking my choice of a Brodak Pathfinder, I think I would be better of with a nice little plane with built up wings that could use the Brodak .049II on 35' lines exclusively. Basically I'm looking for a nice little fun plane and have been trying to contact Minnesotamodeler for info on his LilGeo and Skywriter.
I thank you all for the info and should I decide to get into longer lines and a more powerful engine The info here will come in handy.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2007, 01:44:32 PM »

Quote from: Jerry Bohn on October 10, 2007, 11:33:36 AM

Basically I'm looking for a nice little fun plane and have been trying to contact Minnesotamodeler for info on his LilGeo and Skywriter.

Didn't realize I was that hard to find...guess I need a better publicist!

ray.stone@gmail.com

http://snipurl.com/9igp

--Ray

Bill Little · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2007, 07:26:03 PM »

Ray and John, I hope to meet you BOTH at Huntersville. You probably won't have any trouble finding me.

ray copeland · « **Reply #23 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:12:29 PM »

Hey Bill, my co-pilot (spouse to be) and I will definitly be there unless other duties call. My plans are to take a couple of old coroplast planes for any kids that would like to fly, they can't be hurt and if they are no big loss. I have no pretty planes to bring, just my little 1/2a 's that i fly every chance i get and i will bring a few of them also. Hopefully we can interest a few kids in this sport! Looking forward to meeting everyone on this forum i can. Thanks, Ray

Larry Renger · « **Reply #24 on:** October 10, 2007, 08:59:51 PM »

For small field flying, check out RSMdistribution.com they have a very nice Golden Bee/Black Widow plane of a good size for what you want.

Dave Nyce · « **Reply #25 on:** November 07, 2007, 01:39:50 PM »

I've been working with a group of kids, building and flying 1/2A-sized planes (profile trainers and Musciano-types) with Babe Bee and Golden Bee engines. We've been using 26 foot dacron lines. Is this size plane usually flown on 35 foot lines? Is it OK to use the dacron lines at 35 feet, or do you have to go to cables in order to reduce wind resistance with that length of lines?

ray copeland · « **Reply #26 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:55:34 PM »

Hey David, i have had the dacron line break on me on several occasions! If you have the means 20 to 30 lb. spiderwire fishing line is the best i have found, not the monofiliment type. Also i find 30 to 35 feet and anywhere between works good for me in the backyard for sport flying. When i have the chance i fly my stunt types on 40 foot lines. Good luck with the kids, Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #27 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:55:55 PM »

Dave, Dacron is about the worst line material you could use. Draggy, and it stretches too. Try some fishing line that specifies "no-stretch" or "extra sensitive" like Spiderwire Fusion, or similar. 8 or 10-lb. test would be enough for what you're doing. One spool will make several sets of lines. Just a suggestion.

--Ray

Dave Nyce · « **Reply #28 on:** November 07, 2007, 04:55:46 PM »

Thanks Ray and Ray! (You must be twin brothers, right?) I'll switch to spiderwire.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #29 on:** November 07, 2007, 07:53:49 PM »

Hey Ray...we're twins.

--Ray

ken cook · « **Reply #30 on:** February 03, 2008, 05:23:10 PM »

Larry ,I've seen you mention the Nelson head combo for the Brodak engines in the past. I currently have a Brodak .061 on a Veco 1/2 a Tomahawk. I feel it could use a few more rpm's.The engine runs totally steady inverted,outsides,squares etc. I was using a 5 1/4-4 white Tornado. This plane likes a bit of speed so a larger prop seemed a bit anemic on it. I switched to a APC 5-3 which brought the rpm's way up but seemed to lose a bit of its drive. I would really like to aquire one of these heads that you mention but haven't been able to locate one. I've done a few searches with no success. Everytime I see you mention the Ap .061 I get that much closer to buying one. I already made the investment on the Brodak. I had a Norvel .061 on this plane and was just totally astounded by it. I've moved that engine to a full bodied plane but I'd really like to get some more performance out of this Brodak .061.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #31 on:** February 04, 2008, 09:22:23 AM »

http://www.plantfloor.com/pa/nelsoncompetitionengines.htm

This is the link to Nelson Engines. The source of Nelson heads and plugs.

don Burke · « **Reply #32 on:** February 07, 2008, 09:25:26 AM »

For those interested in the Wasp .061. Hobby People is having a 5-day sale next week, 14-18 Feb. The .061 r/c is going for $29.95, rgularly $49.95. I plan to get at least a couple if they don't immediately sell out on the 15th!

Robert McHam · « **Reply #33 on:** February 07, 2008, 03:52:51 PM »

Quote from: don Burke on February 07, 2008, 09:25:26 AM

For those interested in the Wasp .061. Hobby People is having a 5-day sale next week, 14-18 Feb. The .061 r/c is going for $29.95, rgularly $49.95. I plan to get at least a couple if they don't immediately sell out on the 15th!

That will be your best bang for the buck these days!
But remember that the Wasp has quality control issues.
Every one you buy, tear it down and put it in a sonic bath before you ever put fuel or fire to it and you will see what I mean!

For those who have nothing but problems with their Wasps I can just about bet it was caused by debris that was over looked because they just cranked it out of the box and did not clean it first... Some are cleaner than others out of the box. Don't take chances.

Robert

ray copeland · « **Reply #34 on:** February 14, 2008, 03:49:49 PM »

I called Hobby People to order my .061 wasp for $29.99 and they laughed and laughed!!