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Author Topic: ..cox reed valve  (Read 3507 times)

Offline Bootlegger

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..cox reed valve
« on: June 24, 2012, 12:22:43 PM »
    Guy's what method do you use to reinstall the cir clip over the reed valve in the Cox engines??
  So far I haven't sent one "flying in the shop"..!!
 But I do need advise, thanks
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Gil Causey
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Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2012, 02:46:27 PM »
Hi Gil,
I just put them on top of the housing, then place a finger half over the circlip and use a stout pair of tweezers to nip in the circlip. Push down with finger and tweezers until the circlip falls into place.
  I NEVER have problem putting them back in, I near always manage to loose them when I take them OUT!

Regards,

Andrew.
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Offline Bill Heher

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 09:51:20 AM »
I can usually just place the free end in the groove and roll the clip the rest of the way in with finger pressure.
Bill Heher
Central Florida and across the USA!
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Offline Bootlegger

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 11:39:05 AM »
   y1   Thanks a lot fellow's, got the clip in this A.M., now I have anudder question, what kind of reed's do you use teflon, steel or some other, and where do you get them?
  Again thanks, Gil #^
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Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 03:24:52 PM »
Hi Gil,
         I took the advice of the Cox experts on this sub forum. I now use steel reeds, they last almost forever although I think they are a few hundred revs down on say teflon. Snag is most of the alternatives to steel don't last very long. For the Pee Wee I still use the copper or is it copper berylium ?
  I get my reeds in bulk from Cox International, quick service and reasonably priced.

Regards,

Andrew.
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 05:10:01 PM »
BTW when I am dealing with something fiddely and springey like a reed retainer or the circlip on a Medallion needle, I work inside a plastic bag.  The ones from dry-cleaners are huge and very transparent.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 05:48:31 PM »

  Thanks a lot Guy's, Larry I like that tip about the plastic bag for a "retainer"...
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Online kenneth cook

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 05:15:08 AM »
             The stainless reed works well but it can also be deformed easily. It gives good performance numbers. It will become distorted from use over time. The clear Mylar reed in my opinion works extremely well. Problem with the Mylar is it becomes short lived as it wants to get sucked into the venturi opening and distorts no longer sealing. The Teflon reed works, but I had some problems with this one as well. For starters, when I put my Teflon reed in I hadn't noticed that two were stuck together. The circlip never engaged fully and during a screaming run the clip came out. The clip almost came through the side of the crankcase. It's hard to imagine that it could do that. One problem with the Mylar reed is that during dormant periods, they get glued down due to the castor. They're my reed of choice though. Place a syringe on the back of the venturi with the plunger retracted. Push the plunger down and make sure air flows in then try and retract it making sure the reed is operating. I've found several reeds that wouldn't seal by doing so. Fixing it is as easy as flipping it over. This can save a lot of headaches. Ken

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 05:44:32 AM »
Hello Ken,
I have had the same problems as you with the Mylar and Teflon reeds. In my case the Teflon reeds were distorting after a half dozen runs and the Mylar lasted a little longer. I am up to 25 runs plus with the steel reed and it is still fine.
I did some rather rough and ready back to back tests with the same engine and varrious reeds, this is where I got the indication that the steel reeds were very slightly down on rpm. But I wouldn't claim this observation to be definitive. I would rather trust your better experience base than mine!
I gave up with the Teflon and Mylar reeds after a couple of each showed the same sort of poor lifetime, so that wasn't an "extensive test". Hope people listen to what you say, because you have probably had much more running experience than I have. Your tip about using a syringe to do a quick check on airflow is an excellent idea and will save quite a bit of "Cox misery" if carried out! I commend this to any Cox user!

Regards,

Andrew.
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Online kenneth cook

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 06:27:59 AM »
         Hello Andrew, I agree with your findings as well. I do like the Mylar reed despite it's short lived life. The stainless is more durable. I actually liked the old style beryllium copper reeds aside from the fact they were so fragile. It only took a set of ham hands to botch one of those up. I recall when they came in the overhaul kit bags, they were loose inside. They sometimes got damaged in the bag before you opened them.  I certainly never achieved the so called rpm numbers that the Teflon supposedly offered over conventional reeds. I did notice that they do have a good service life. After my engine is assembled I keep that syringe close by. I close the needle valve all the way down and pressurize the tank. You can almost pinpoint leaks by listening. A bad venturi o ring will give immediate hissing at the screen. You might be surprised how many other air leaks you can nail down. The screws are quite difficult to seal and they nearly all leak. On metal back plates, I found just replacing the screws with new ones can give positive results.

Tanks leak where they meet the backplate, this can be problematic at times. As many of us dislike the plastic backplates, I've found them to leak the least amount. The screws seem to seal the best in these but distortion can take place if overtightened. Not only do you have to look for leaks around the needle threads, but you have to check around the threaded insert as well. Ken


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 07:47:50 AM »
A little silicone glue under the heads of the screws will seal and you don't have to over tighten.   I use the Teflon reeds from Davis Diesel. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 08:00:01 AM »
Hello Ken & Doc,
The leaks and sticking reeds are what I term "Cox misery"! When they are leak free and have a good reed, then the Cox reedies are a joy to use. It is the dratted leaks that got me down about a year ago. I almost gave up on the little critters. Now I do a rebuild session and replace all the known nasties at one fell swoop, usually about 10 engines at a time! I also use some silicone sealent on the screws as per Doc's recommendations. Once, when I ran out of o-rings, I used the old ones with a touch of silicone. Not to be recommended, but it does work if you are stuck for parts, provided you use the barest minimum.
Since I have started to maintain my fleet on a regular basis, the "Cox misery" has gone away and I am very happy with the results of regular and careful rebuilds. So is my grandson, who is the main user of the fleet!
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Online kenneth cook

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 10:40:51 AM »
              Here is my experience with silicone, I tried it and it failed. I was using Ge clear silicone. I've also tried to use Permatex Ultra black and that doesn't hold well to alcohol either. The Ge silicone as it cures makes acetic acid which will corrode the screws. Newer screws available are stainless and therefore probably wouldn't corrode. Silicone and zinc plating just don't go well together and you can see the whitish corrosion all around the screw once it's removed. I recently saw an engine with Permatex Ultra blue on it and this appeared to be holding up to the fuel. This may just be the choice of silicone to use.  I see less of a tendency of corrosion when using automotive grade silicone vs. contractor grade silicone. I can't confirm this, but I believe one is acid curing and the other isn't. I do know that the Ge silicone reeks of vinegar smell and the acid generated is indeed harmful to certain  metals.  I never thought this to happen, but I have just as many metal tank backs with cracks around the screw area as plastic ones. Ken

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 03:01:05 PM »
Hello Ken,
My mistake, I actually use a product called Hylomer, which is intended to be a gasket replacement / substitution used on car engines and the like. This stuff is actually blue and does stand up to alcohol quite well. From the awful acetic acid smell of most curing silicones, I can well understand the corrosion problems.
Glad you corrected me, don't want to lead people into bad solutions!

Regards,

Andrew.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2012, 09:51:45 AM »
I discovered that there are two kinds of silicone.   There is a sealer and there is a glue.  I use the glue type and had to look hard for it.  The sealant type does not hold any thing like I think it should.  So far no discoloration with the glue type. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2012, 09:34:28 AM »
Goop adhesive does not cause corrosion and is extremely fuelproof. I use it to glue tubes into small bottles to make tanks.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online kenneth cook

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2012, 03:58:06 PM »
              Larry, I never thought of that. I believe it was Minnesota Ray using it to seal film canister tanks but it never clicked. That sounds like a great idea. Ken

Online John Rist

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2012, 07:47:05 AM »
Goop adhesive does not cause corrosion and is extremely fuelproof. I use it to glue tubes into small bottles to make tanks.

15 years ago when I was racing electric boats we used Goop to seal the electronics because it didn't corrode the electronics.  Also it is a glue that holds very well.  Good to know it is also fuel proof.

 D>K
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: ..cox reed valve
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2012, 07:59:00 AM »
              Larry, I never thought of that. I believe it was Minnesota Ray using it to seal film canister tanks but it never clicked. That sounds like a great idea. Ken

Yup, even used it to seal 2 canisters together end-to-end when I needed a bigger tank.  Just give it sufficient curing time. 
--Ray 
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