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Author Topic: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?  (Read 2333 times)

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« on: March 12, 2012, 07:24:29 AM »
Hello,
Being a Brit, I like diesels. I have some diesel cranks for the Cox 0.49s, so which is the best Diesel head conversion. There appears to be a wide choice. There are the Davies conversions which I think are the same ones sold by Cox international? These seem to seal the contra piston with a teflon disc. There are the Mecoa ones which use a high temperature viton o-ring for sealing. Last but not least there are the Norvel ones which use a brass slug in an aluminium head. Sealing is done by means of a traditional good fit.
I don't fancy spending $75 to $100 in finding the best conversion (tight fisted!), so has anyone got any first hand experience of these conversions?

Regards,

Andrew.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 08:54:17 AM »
I ran the Davis head a long time ago; it was a nice engine and put out enough power to fly an 09 powered RC sport plane (a Sig Colt), if marginally.

A couple of years ago I hauled it out and put it on an engine that turned out to be unreliable for other reasons; I could never keep the needle valve setting consistent -- and I burned through all my little teflon disks in one day's worth of cussin' and flippin'.

That's the only one I've got experience with: it's dead reliable on a good engine, but if you have a seriously lean run it'll burn the teflon disk just like high-nitro fuel with a glow plug.
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Offline Dennis Saydak

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 09:20:56 AM »
Andrew, I have a brand new .049/051 Davis diesel head. You can have it for the cost of the postage from Canada.
The instructions stress that a good piston seal is very important so a worn engine probably won't run properly.

Send me an email if you're interested.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 02:36:20 PM »
Which engine are you planning to convert?  I found that the Tee Dee cranks are too weak, and fracture across the port opening.  The reed engines with the Davis crankshaft are a delight.  I suspect that the Medallion would work well too.  I have not tried a Norvel or AP Wasp.

I prefer the MECOA head because the teflon disks burn out long before the engine can be damaged (other than those Tee Dees wich did die using the Davis head).

There is a lot going for using an engine designed to be a diesel.  Rugged is their middle name!
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
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Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 10:10:02 AM »
Hello Larry,
Looking to convert a lowly reedy, maybe even one with dual ports! I have a stock of heavy duty cranks, so I should be OK for longevity. The Norvel conversions seemed the better ones, although a little more expensive. I have been put off with reports of poor machining on the first few batches and don't want to palmed off with one of those!
Looks like I will be getting a very generous offer from Dennis Saydak and I can check out the Davies heads without spending too much cash! Very important this one, as it will come out of my grandson's pocket money!
Joking apart, I shall be interested to see if a converted Cox 0.49 can fly something like a Vic Smeed Tomboy. That can be flown on the old Amco .87 diesel or the Mills 0.75. I don't mind flying freeflight if junior does the retrieval!

Regards,

Andrew.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 10:26:28 AM »
Joking apart, I shall be interested to see if a converted Cox 0.49 can fly something like a Vic Smeed Tomboy. That can be flown on the old Amco .87 diesel or the Mills 0.75. I don't mind flying freeflight if junior does the retrieval!

I think a Cox 0.49 reed valve glow engine would be too big for a Nobler, much less something designed for 1/2A

(Somewhere out there on the web there's a set of pictures from a guy who really built a giant Cox reed valve engine, and it looks like it might be a 0.49 -- but I couldn't find it just now).
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 10:31:08 AM »
I think a Cox 0.49 reed valve glow engine would be too big for a Nobler, much less something designed for 1/2A

(Somewhere out there on the web there's a set of pictures from a guy who really built a giant Cox reed valve engine, and it looks like it might be a 0.49 -- but I couldn't find it just now).

Tim.

I believe that there was a 40 sized golden bee made as a diesel and I know that Bob Davis had kicked the idea around in the 80's and had mentioned the Cox upsized version of the Golden bee.
perhaps that is the one that you are referring to. I never got a view of it...... bummer!

dennis

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 12:13:42 PM »
Andrew,
I am always befuddled by your use of the decimal point.  You refer to a ".049" as a "0.49".
That would make it larger than a Super Tigre .46! ;D  Is there something I am missing in the translation? LL~

Thanks, Buddy!
Bill
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 12:46:51 PM »
Dennis:

Nah, the web site I'm thinking of is for some German machinist with time on his hands and a sense of humor similar to mine.  The machining work looked impeccable -- but no one looking to build the World's Best 49-sized Motor is going to make an enlarged Golden Bee.

Bill:

I think Andrew just slipped a digit.  All you need, though, for a 0.49 Golden Bee is the factory drawings and a calculator that can multiply by 2.15.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 02:00:01 PM »
Hi Guys,
Sorry about the decimal point moving! I always have to think, because us Brit oldies always use cc for small engines and I always need to think twice when I am talking about small capacity American glows. It is odd but now we Brits use cubic inches for larger glows these days and it is only in the last few year that PAW have now started to refer to their small diesels in cubic inch terms. Sometimes you just get it wrong! We are half converted to the metric system and now going back to Imperial when it comes to toy engines............. Just to make you smile, our conversion to metric in the building trade means that a standard board is now 2400mm x 1200mm, a bit of an odd size until you realise that it is virtually a 8ft x 4ft board, same as it was in Imperial!

Glad I made you all smile at my expense!

Andrew.
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Offline Bill Adair

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 02:56:34 PM »
Andrew,

I bought one of the early NV diesel heads, and never got it to seal properly! In the process, I ruined a Norvel 1cc engine by running it too cool during break-in. My mistake, because they warn you not to use a new Cox engine for a diesel conversion, but I'd forgotten that little clue. I should have known better.   ::)

The PAW 55 is an excellent engine, and should easily out perform any Cox reed conversion, and also last much longer! I know they are expensive, but the ease of handling, and superior performance surely offset the expense.

I've been watching eBay for a reasonable price on a used one, but they all seem to go for much more than I can afford at the moment. Since they are popular engines where you live, I'd think the chances of finding a good used one would be much better.

Good luck in any case.

Bill
Not a flyer (age related), but still love the hobby!

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 04:04:16 PM »
Hi Bill,
I am way ahead of you on this one. I already have 3 PAW .55 diesels and like you say they are very good indeed. I also have a selection of the older style PAW 80s and 100s. I will come clean with you. I am teaching small grandson to fly a little free flight and as soon as he gets the hang of it, grandpa will retreat and let him learn by mistake if necessary. I don't mind losing a Cox 0.049, because they are cheap enough, but I am blowed if I am going to lose any of my hoard of PAW small diesels, like you say, they don't come cheap!
Oh and the diesel conversion is because us Brits have to smell correctly and diesel is the favoured aftershave of some of us old uns. In reality it is just so convenient to have a small valve spout full of diesel fuel and no hassle with batteries. Just helps small boys!
  I am not as mean as I sound. I managed to buy a pair of Doonside Mills engines from Steve Helmick......thanks again  Steve!.......Once junior is up and running and gets a taste for aeromodelling, he gets the Mills as a present.......so I am not so bad after all!

Regards,

Andrew.
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Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2012, 01:28:29 PM »
Hello Bill,
Thanks for the heads up on the Norvel diesel heads, I have heard things like incorrect thread depth and sealing surfaces not being parallel. Nice to hear someone you can trust say that there is substance to those rumours.
I promise to get the decimal point in the correct place from now on, can't risk annoying you and getting my leg pulled by the rest of the gang!

Thanks again,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2012, 01:52:40 AM »
Minor nit-picking?

The DDD conversion heads are from Bob Davis, not someone named Davies... Bob D has offered the teflon disk heads for Cox 1/2A engines for over 30 years... Sells excellent fuel, too.

Another conversion head is available from RJL, in California. Theirs is an O-ring sealed contra-piston type, and comes with a locking-bar for the comp screw.

As it fits the Cox glow-head threads, I tried the RJL head on a few NorVel (aluminum fin, not ceramic) .049 and .061 engines. A bit trickier starting than the teflon DDD heads, but they don't burn through. As I recall, I could turn a 5.5-3 over 18,000 RPM before I chickened out about the settings... (My own home-blend: 30E, ~41K, 22Oil, 1 or 2% DII.)
\BEST\LOU

Offline Andrew Tinsley

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Re: Cox diesel conversions, which is best?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2012, 03:16:11 AM »
Thanks Lou,
There was I thinking that it was Davies, apologies to all including Mr Davis. Your comments on the RJL head are most interesting, people tend to dismiss them as "rubbish", could be that they are somewhat anti RJL for other reasons and just assume the diesel head is no good too. I don't mind the greater difficulty in starting, I have a good diesel flick! Maybe I shall give it a try, but I will wait until junior has perfected the art of diesel starting, before trying one on him.
The Norvel head was very well reviewed by ColinW on the Barton forum. It did have hot restart problems and it seems that ColinW had a better than average sample machining wise. Might even contact the Norvel agent and find out if the current heads are machined to a more acce,ptable standard.

Regards,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862


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