Okay, upon further review, I have rooted around among my .049 stash and I have three disassembled Black Widows (all have metal tank backs) and my original Golden Bee (that I had put a 290 piston/cylinder on), also disassembled and bagged. Lastly, I also have three Tee Dee .049s, all of the gummed up.

I now recall that back in 2015-2016 I intended to refresh all of the above but was having trouble finding the needed parts to do so. (Tank O-rings, gaskets, reeds, piston/cylinders/etc for the Widows and Golden Bee.)

SO... is there now a "kit" available at Cox Int'l, MECOA, or somebody, that would fix me up with gaskets and what have you?

Also, are piston/cylinders available?

Andre Ming

Remember the questions Tuesday if all goes well.

Will do!

I'm still on for the trip up your way and looking forward to it. Heard from Dave?


Andre

THANKS Jim!

I've copied/pasted the links into my new "049 Links" txt file.

When I get back from KC, I will put together an order for the gasket sets with EX.

Safe to assume the mylar reed will be fine in my mid-1960s era Golden Bee? (I think it originally had a copper/whatever reed.)

I can't help but feel that it would still be good practice to re-acclimate myself and daughter on with the stability of tuned down (control horn setting, needle setting) Flite Streak, as well as train the boyfriend that wants to learn... then once they're flying... switch them over to plank wings for learning basic maneuvers. It was my experience if you can proficiently fly a stunt on a little 1/2A's... you can fly it on a big plane! BUT, there's far less carnage learning on a 1/2A plank wing.

SOOO much small piddly ahead of me, with both the big planes as well as the .049's.


Andre

Yes, the big planes are naturally more stable and have the line pull to help... but the carnage factor for the inevitable mistakes is oft times severe.

However, a Black Widow powered plank wing is like a Timex: It can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

Over the years "back when", I recall teaching several young men to fly level and then gentle up/down with my 35 Stunt Flite Streak. I would typically let them solo with it.

When they felt they were ready to move into stunting, I would first take them out into the circle with the Flite Streak and demonstrate how to do loops and sport 8's. I don't recall handing them the handle then placing my hand over theirs for learning stunts as I did with level flight, but I may have. Anyway, when they were serious about learning stunts, to a plank wing trainer they went. They then had fun learning and most mishaps resulted in zero damage. Typically they would have loops and sloppy 8's down in an afternoon.

When they were good enough on a Black Widow plank wing to dependably fly loops and sport 8's without crashing... I would then let them try it on the Flite Streak. They were often impressed by how much simpler it was... but the Flite Streat was still in one piece... which like would NOT have been the case had I tried to teach them stunts with it!

Andre

Well you may have a plank wing to take home also.   

WOW! Do I need to bring an enclosed trailer?? 

Well, I did "pay it forward" a few years ago: I gave the stack of planks attached with this post to Randy Daily, who at the time was working with some youth and teaching them to fly C/L. I "think" I also gave him the jars of colored dope (Sig) as well as the quart can of Sig clear Supercoat.

Of course, now I could use all of that stuff.

However, I'm sure it went to a good cause.

All fer now!

Andre

Slit exhausts work just fine. 

More important is the orientation. Fore and aft is best because then the bypass flutes are not restricted by the reed housing and crankshaft.

Thanks Larry for your input!

As for orienting the bypass ports, seems that is a "luck of the threads" type thing?

I figure a shim (or shims) under the cylinder to attain fore/aft intake port orientation would not be advisable? Seems to me the result of adding a shim to align the ports fore/aft would also raise the port timing which, again, to me, would alter the running characteristics of the little buzz bomb?

How are you aligning the bypass ports fore/aft if the threads don't cooperate?

Andre

       Search around in your newly assembled sources to see if anyone has the cylinder shims. If not, I think the copper head gaskets will fit and try those one at a time.  Back when the Golden Bee and Widow came out, respectively, any shops that carried numbers of them got the fore/aft exhaust slots weeded out pretty quickly! I learned that trick when I was pretty young still, without the benefit of the internet!!.
  Type at you later,
 Dan McEntee

    PS to add: I forgot to mention that if you are up for making your own reeds, some one suggested using old 5" floppy disks for that purpose. Lots of those laying around!!  And they work great!

Thanks Dan and Doc.

Dan:

Well, the timing will be changed with each shim. Whether it is enough to noticeably alter the performance is the thing. May not be a worry point, but that won't stop me from overthinking it and worrying. 

Too late for the stack of 5 1/2" floppies I had.. they got tossed years ago.


Doc:

Good to know. I have one such cylinder, the rest being big ports. It remains to be learned if the slit port piston/cylinder is good enough for reuse.


Andre

Yes, raising the ports typically raises the RPM (to a point) and lowers torque.

Only 1 of the 4 Black Widows I own have the transfer ports aligned in the preferred way!

All fer now!

Andre

Try switching cylinders from engine to engine. If you get within 30 degrees of optimum you should be OK.

🤠

Thanks Larry.

I now have about five Black Widows to freshen when the time comes to start up the 049 fetish.

However, I'll probably start with a good cleaning and new reeds/gaskets... and see what kind of shape the piston/cylinders are in (compression). I may be surprised that some of them still have good compression. We can only hope?


Andre

Perhaps consider this article for a few tips... good luck! 
 
https://www.nclra.org/TechTopics/GibeaultMousePrimer2016.pdf

Paul G.

   Dave;
      Until Andre rings back in, I think that's a Top Flite Combat Kitten. they used to come in a box of two, I think. Kits can be found, but you know how that is these days. There were no plans in the kit, just an instruction sheet. All the parts were die cut or machined with notches for the ribs already. An easy to build airplane. Something very similar could be scratch built using this ne plastic corrugated material that they use for signs. I'll bet you could just draw something up that "Looks About Right" with about a 20 in span or so. there is a guy on eBay that has a plastic 3D printed engine mount just for this sort of thing. Very little work to build, nothing to paint and fuel proof, and after they learn to fly reliably, you can build the balsa model with the precious balsa that you have on hand!! My brother and I used to fly these Kittens in tall grass behind out house, and unless you went straight it, they never touched the ground. Weeds would poke holes in the tissue, so I tried covering mine with typing paper for toughness and that worked!! Another 1/2A combat model was the Little Satan. About the same size, and again, no plans with the kit but had an assembly sheet. The links are for what i could find on the outerzone sight. Have fun!!
    Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

     https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=6410    ( Combat Kitten)

   https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4183      ( Little Satan )
   

Mr. Dan,
It's funny you posted the Lil Satan link. I did those pattern tracings decades ago. I don't know who I scanned them to, but they attributed the scans back to me.

The one on my CEF avatar is actually a scratch-build one from Flying-Lines.org's Widow Satan.

Something I never validated but always suspected...the Combat Kitten wing looks a lot like a Baby Flight Streak wing. Get the baby flight streak pattern and you should have the parts for the Kitten.

Andre, either of the combat models with be pretty tough birds. Finding a plane with a bit of room between the wing and stab will leave you with a slightly smoother, less twitchy flier.

Mark has a point. There is no real advantage to winding up one of these little engines for all it's worth. Faster running engines drink fuel faster. They break faster too.

Where does the Venom stack up with the Black Widow and Golden Bee in terms of power?

     If you have both in stock form, just start them up on the same fuel and prop and listen!! I debuted mine at our club's Golden Age Races many years ago. I sat on the ground getting the model ready and things prepared while others were doing the same thing and a few flights were put in, and then when I started it up and everyone stopped what they were doing and looked my way!!  it's definitely a step up from a Black Widow. Larry Renger has stated here a few times on how to build your own Venom using standard Cox parts. If you do some of the standard fit and maintenance things in Paul's performance tips with out drilling anything, you will still have a better engine. That's the neat thing about messing with these things, you don't need to be a machinist or own a machine shop in order to have a better running engine. You just need to pay attention to details and put those in the correct order.
   It's really the same with ANY engine.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Andre, thanks for the photo with the dimensions.  I don't need another plane at the moment.  Especially a plank wing which I have sworn off.  I have too many already.  But looking at your plane, it gives me a couple of new ideas for building such a plane that would save me a lot of build time.  I may just build one if I have a free afternoon and the will to set aside other projects. 

Mark

              John, there's a lot of differences between the Black Widow and the Golden Bee. It also depends on the years each one was made. The early Golden Bee with the black drive washer typically used a #2 cylinder which is a single port like a Babe Bee. However, the early style also came equipped with a thin wall cylinder. I've always found this style cylinder to be a good performer. The Black Widow was introduced in and around 1973 which offered a dual bypass cylinder dictated by the #1 stamped onto it. This new cylinder was known as the stepped wall cylinder which was beefed up to prevent warping and twisting which the early thin wall was susceptible to. This immediately offered much more power over the Babe Bee and the Golden Bee. What also changed over the years which is the size of the venturi. Early Golden Bee engines had a very small venturi on the tank and the backplate. Later 70's version of the Golden Bee offered the venturi similar to the Black Widow. Black Widow backplates came with a .082" and sometimes as large as a .093" opening.

            To further confuse things, some of the early Golden Bee engines didn't come with sub piston induction. These engines were offered with a #6 cylinder which had no SPI which could be used with a muffler similar to the early QZ Bee. It was noted that exhaust gasses that were spent would be scavenged back into the engine unless SPI was eliminated. Cox raised the height off the deck of the case to block off the space under the piston skirt. For those engines that didn't offer this feature, Cox offered a shim that went under the cylinder prior to being screwed in. As to not make this difficult for users, Cox had a ingenious idea which wouldn't allow the muffler to be tightened onto the case unless the shim was in place. Once in place, a little snug offered just enough tension to hold the muffler in place.

         One of the last Cox offerings of the Golden Bee was the R/C Golden Bee. This engine came with a throttle ring and a high compression head. The throttle ring I believe was a bit restrictive not too mention it probably retained a bit more heat. I believe the high comp head was to restore some lost power due to this feature.

Thank you Dan and Kenneth.

            Andre my son and I were present when you were New Jersey Circle Burners. You flew your Demon. I think you had a Combat Kitten with you or maybe it was mine and you chimed in on it. I love the Satan, I just do and it might be the decal who knows. However, it really flies poorly in my opinion. It's fast but not maneuverable like the Kitten is. My first Kitten with a strong Black Widow impressed me to this day.I believe it's due to wider wingspan than the Satan and wider chord. I since converted my Kitten to a TD on bladder. I do it more for a gimmick. I use 65% nitro and it hauls the mail. It's a bit aggressive on plugs but damn is it fun to watch.My son flies it and makes it appealing but he would rather fly the modern 1/2A's.

               One airframe that I've always found to be impressive is the Baby Flite Streak. How many in regards to this post actually flew a match of combat using period airframes and Cox Bees? If you think back on it, you probably would have more fun smashing yourself in the crotch with a sledge hammer. Integral tanked bees are plagued with air leak issues yielding not so successful back to back runs. I'm not saying one can't work their way through the issues because I do it all the time. The difference is when you do go up for a match, NOTHING works. Engines want to run backwards, engines that typically yield one to two flip starts don't want to start etc.

         While not combat related, I've tried and tried to successfully do a full stunt pattern which flies just like the big counterparts. This is quite difficult. I mean a judged pattern with definition and all maneuvers easily recognized. This is not possible with a Bee of any kind due to capacity so I've utilized external tanks and product backplates. Applying all that I learned in doing so,  I've found this to be very useful on combat planes . However, many designs such as the Satan and Kitten are tight for space.

          I did put a tank into my Kitten and it was the worst thing ever. For starters, the engine was constantly fuel starved and without running rich, fuel draw was always a issue. Running rich on a combat plane is pretty unproductive in terms of what one is trying to achieve. Hard maneuvering would make the engine quit. Therefore, it was quite obvious early on that bladder pressure resolves this problem. It's not that a tank won't work but certain factors assist in fuel draw.

               Old timey upright engine combat planes utilize their fuel tanks directly behind the engine and as close to the back of engine as possible. This alone is a key factor in successful engine runs. I've found square tanks to feed exceptionally well when mounted directly behind the engine whereas profiles like a coffin shape or pinched back outside corner. Many of the designs however don't allow for a tank installation directly behind the engine. Usually, the bellcrank platform is in the way resulting in a redesign if necessary. Another factor which also helps in fuel draw is uniflow. I know of no commercially available 1/2A tank. Therefore, making your tank uniflow is important and understanding design,  cleanliness,  technique is critical to success.

           If this isn't your thing and your hard pressed to use integral tanked bees, which I still do, there's a few things to watch for. Obtain a 5 oz's luer lock syringe and use small fuel tubing on the tip. Take the tanked engine apart, hook the fuel tubing to the back of the tank with the syringe retracted. Press the syringe and it should go down easily, however your shouldn't be able to retract it backwards AT ALL!!! If you can, the reed is leaking and it's not going to work successfully. Before going any further, place a drop of oil on the reed and insure it wicks under it and try again to see if it passes the suck blow test.

          Assemble the engine and now carefully tighten down the needlevalve enough to block it off. Using the syringe, place the fuel tubing on one of the filler pipes and with a spare finger hold it firmly against the overflow filler and press down on the syringe. Lend a ear to the engine, if the plunger immediately depresses, listen to where the air is leaking from. If you hear air directly from the rear of the engine such as the intake screen, the venturi gasket is leaking. The stock Cox gasket is a POS!. Obtain throwing dart o-rings, they're cheap, they're actually round and they work great for this application.

           Other air leaks can occur at the screws, place a drop of oil on each screw and repressurize t and check for bubbles.These are a bit difficult to fix. Some use sealers, I prefer a cotton swab. I tear off a piece and use the cotton similar to Teflon tape using it the same way as to not unscrew it when tightened.  Place a drop of oil on the tank to tank back connection and let it wick around the tank while keeping pressure on the tank. Air leaks can develop here as well which can be remedied by inserting dental floss into the v-groove of the tank. This is a pain in the rear to do but it does fix the problem. A drop of oil can hold the dental floss while laying it in there. I've found nitrile gloves good for this because the floss right when I get it all the way around sticks to my fingers. Only overlap a minimal amount. Also with oil check for bubbles at the case to tank joint where the gasket is, I prefer to lap the back of the case with 400 paper on a piece of glass using a little oil . The screws tend to pull material and raise the surface which I like to make absolutely flat prior to installing.

             Also check your needle valve assembly, this can leak where it's installed into the backplate itself and also around the threads where the needle screws in. I've successfully removed the threaded body out of the die cast tank back and carefully reassembled once clean with JB weld if the leaks were present at the assembly to tank back. The needle leakage can be remedied by using small tubing on the threads with a washer on the needle.

          Most importantly, is the plug. While it might glow and it looks bright, this always doesn't equate to the fact that when you fly it , it becomes unpredictable. These things are nearing $15 a piece and more from others. It's hard to not use the old ones.New plugs just seem to have a very overall positive impact on engine run.  Look for the warning signs, rpm drops after igniter is removed, Roughness when running and inconsistent rpm's. Many times I've discovered the Cox engines when mounted in the traditional laid over profile fashion with cylinder to outboard tip can cause burping in outside maneuvers similar to the Fox.35. While it might some non traditional, I tried the inboard mounted cylinder like the Hyper Viper and it really seemed to me to improve the run.

A great truth. If you make it go faster, it won’t live as long. Just like people. 

Actually, most engines die of dirt/dust ingestion. If you use enough oil of the right type in a clean environment, 
you will wear out before the engine does. Two examples: Cox ran a Tee Dee .049 for 400 hours. It needed an electric starter to get going then, but still ran fine. Duke fox ran 55 gallons through a Fox stunt .35. And then gave up because it still ran well.

Sadly, we don’t fly in a clean lab. 😢