Author Topic: BHM 1/2A auto gyro (Read 46594 times)

frank carlisle · « **Reply #150 on:** January 18, 2007, 07:18:53 PM »

Ray I just read your latest post. Thanks for the pat on the back.

I found issues with the leadout location. I took pix to demonstrate.
The position of the leadout holes fore and aft is just fine but the height of the leadouts as per the kit will make the plane fly with the outboard wing way down.

Here are the changes I made--Mind you that I am not to be considered to have the last word on this or to be right for that matter.
Pictures tell the story so here they are. The first two are using the kit leadout position. The rest are the changes I made.
Note that my modification has the wing perpindicular. Also in one of the pix of the mods you can see the new hieght of where the string leaves the ledout.

Let me know what you think about this please.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #151 on:** January 18, 2007, 08:57:30 PM »

I just got done figuring how I was going to mount the bellcrank to get it up as high as the lead out guide. I used wooden coffee stirrers for the struts and the pictures tell the rest of the story. There is a slot in the fuselabe for the wing strut and tomorrow I'll refine the set up and put slots in the wing for the other end of the strut. That ought to do it.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #152 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:52:30 AM »

Now that's a pretty slick solution, on several counts...I hadn't really thought much about the vertical CG. I did hang it by the leadouts to check the nose-down attitude, but didn't check the wing alignment. Mine may not be as extreme as yours since my engine sits lower on the airplane--compare our pix and you can see the difference in the thrust lines. Also my wingtip dihedral may be a little more extreme than yours which would place my LOs a little higher. But I'm gonna check it closely in the AM, and if needed I will certainly adopt your solution on the LO guides. You could even move it closer to the tip and make it a little shorter too.

The struts, and BC mount, are the coolest thing. Not sure it was necessary since the LO guide location is the significant thing, as has been abundantly proved in this forum and SSW, the BC location is really sorta immaterial. Well, except for binding problems if the alignment is too far off ideal, which your setup neatly avoids. I believe I would subject it to a pull test of some kind, though, when you're all done, jjust to be sure the popsicle sticks are up to it. You also may be able to put your elev. horn on the top, which puts your up line to the front, which everyone knows is a must in these serious hi-performance stunter-type models!

I still suggest you ditch those heavy wheels for some lightweights. Weigh them--I think you'll be surprised.

Very nice, and the struts are more legitimate-looking to boot.

Race ya to the finish line?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #153 on:** January 19, 2007, 01:42:48 PM »

I'll be interested in knowing how the vertical cg works out on your model Ray.

I raised the bc for exactly the reason you mentioned..and that was to keep the leadouts from sawing on the leadout guides. I was feeling pretty clever as I was setting that up.
In your post you expressed concern about the popsicle stick wing struts holding up, so I took that into consideration and added a 1/16 ply plate to the area where the bc mounts. I used balsa on the other set of struts. It really stiffened it all up very well. And then to hedge the bet I cut slots in the fuselage and wing to get a good grip on the struts. I think it's going to work out real good. Of course only flying will tell. It's 30 degrees here and the wind is clipping around 20 mph. so no rush to get in the test flights.

I'm going to look for another set of cooler wheels. I think the weight might help out here to counterbalance the weight of the motor and rotor. Once again it's all in the flying.

Race to the finish? Man, I'm using dope so I think unless you dope yours you'll have the advantage. I will try to have it finished by the beginning of the week though.

Ah....one more thing..I put landing geaar fairings on mine. I think they are going to stay put. I have of course digitally documented everything. I think the pix are self explanatory and ( modestly speaking) will show me to be fairly clever.

The first two are the lg fairings--next three the wing struts.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #154 on:** January 19, 2007, 02:28:22 PM »

Huh...that thing's really shaping up. BC mount looks non-worrisome now. You just gotta plug that hole in the wing beneath it though, or use it for something...LG fairings look great--are they sewn on, or is the thread just wrapped around the wire to give it "tooth"? I may have to re-think my thinks on not using the fairings on mine.

I did check my model for vertical CG and you are right, it would fly outboard-down as is. That's really good news since it gives me another reason to change the LO guides I wasn't too happy with in the first place. Mine appears to hang about exactly straight with the leadouts at the top edge of the wingtip. Looks like that's about where yours are too, or maybe a skosh higher, so I guess we're on the same page there. I'll make a plywood guide like yours.

Glad to see you're chunking those wheels...I know I'm sounding kinda anal about it, but they weigh around 1/4 ounce each and that's 1/2 oz. at the front we'd certainly be better off without. The wheels I put on weigh exactly nothing on my scale--don't budge it at all. I guess they're just a few grams each. I think I'll also use short pieces of small fuel line for wheel keepers, rather than the collars I normally use, for the same reason. You think that'll work? I saw it on another guy's model and it seemed pretty secure although of course I didn't see it fly.

I'll most likely finish mine with auto primer and Rustoleum. But I'm not really in a hurry to do it; hafta go out in the garage because of the fumes and overspray, and it's not heated, nor even attached. And it is January in MN. I'll wait for a day above freezing, maybe.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #155 on:** January 19, 2007, 03:08:28 PM »

It is shaping up ain't it?
I just wrapped the thread and used a touch of ca to hold it there. When the other half of the fairing went on I pressed the fairing into the thread. The whole job took about an hour and I think it's worth putting them there. This is too unusual a model not to.

About that vertical cg...........John Paris built a hollow log model last year and put the bc on the bottom of the wing as per plans. When he flew it the outboard wing hung way low. That was the heads up for this model. I kinda figured yours would be about the same as mine. I'm glad we cought it.

I hadn't ever considered fuel line for wheel keepers. My gut says it won't work. My head says if Ray thinks it will work it probably will.

Auto primer and Rustoleum would put us about even for a race to the finish, but like you, I'm not in that big a rush. My finishing plan is to brush about 5 coats of clear dope on it. Sand it. Spray a couple coats of clear, then sand again. Next will be shoot colors. I'm going to do it in red with a white outline.

Only thing left for me now is to make a windscreen. I'm going to try to cut a frame for it out of some wood laminate I have here. If (big IF) it works I'll glue it on and paint it the same color as the rest of the model. Then stick a clear piece behind it.

I put it back together for one last dry fit. I couldn't resist taking more pictures. I really like this model!!

I plugged all the holes and even added fillets.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #156 on:** January 19, 2007, 04:02:03 PM »

Very nice, Frank...VERY nice. Those fairings on the LG do look good, I guess I'll have to follow suit. Two pieces of balsa with the wire sandwiched between...I could do that.

The thing on the wheel keepers is, I imagine the weight of the wheels (there I go again) would make a difference too...a lighter wheel wouldn't produce so much centrifugal, or centripedal, or whatever, force. But you know, just because I think a thing might work, it does not necessarily follow that it does...I've proved that more times than I care to think about.

It just occurred to me: If that rotor doesn't spin, but just sits there as the plane flies around, it's sure gonna be disappointing! That's the biggest reason I'm even building this thing, is to see the rotor spinning while airborne--it better do it!

Oh hey, since you lightened your fuselage right through the floor of the cockpit, where you gonna seat your pilot? You are gonna have a pilot, aren't you? You have to have a pilot. Almost as important as light wheels.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #157 on:** January 19, 2007, 04:59:58 PM »

Thanks Ray-----The rotor is going to spin and create lift I promise. I took the model outdoors yesterday to show it the sky and warn it about the ground. As I was walking with it the rotor turned.

Doh!! The pilot, of course, the pilot. I guess I'm going to have to cut a floor and glue it in there. It wouldn't do not to have a pilot now, would it? Somebodys got to drive!!

The wheel fairing is made up of three pieces. There is a leading edge piece that sandwiches between the two fairing sides along with the lg wire. This makes it easier to bend the fairings when gluing the trailing edge.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #158 on:** January 19, 2007, 05:35:08 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 19, 2007, 04:59:58 PM

Doh!! The pilot, of course, the pilot. I guess I'm going to have to cut a floor and glue it in there. It wouldn't do not to have a pilot now, would it? Somebodys got to drive!!

Hey, Frank!

Hows about taking a packing peanut and painting it fleshtone(or peanut color) and doing a Mr Peanut pilot??!!
That might be pretty cool, and lightweight too! Or just use a real peanut. Might have to fuelproof him though!!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #159 on:** January 19, 2007, 06:19:47 PM »

Richard, that's perfect...I was considering a styrofoam cutout to save weight, but the packing peanut will be just right. Dunno about Frank, but I thank you!

--Ray

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #160 on:** January 19, 2007, 06:23:22 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 19, 2007, 04:59:58 PM

Thanks Ray-----The rotor is going to spin and create lift I promise. I took the model outdoors yesterday to show it the sky and warn it about the ground. As I was walking with it the rotor turned.

Doh!! The pilot, of course, the pilot. I guess I'm going to have to cut a floor and glue it in there. It wouldn't do not to have a pilot now, would it? Somebodys got to drive!!

The wheel fairing is made up of three pieces. There is a leading edge piece that sandwiches between the two fairing sides along with the lg wire. This makes it easier to bend the fairings when gluing the trailing edge.

OK, I was a little confused at first but I get it now, you pull the TE's together and glue them, gives the fairing a natural airfoil. Very clever. I shall steal that idea also, thank you very much. Thanks for the email; your last sentence above was the final piece of info I needed.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #161 on:** January 19, 2007, 07:38:18 PM »

Yes but first---glue that leading edge to one side of the fairing-then glue the piece with the leading edge to the wire (ca will do just fine) then glue the other fairing side to the piece on the wire.

Thanks very much for stealing my ideas.........I stole them too.

Now for the good part.----I managed to make a frame for the wind screen. First I putzed with paper till I had a template. Then I traced the template onto a piece of 1/16 ply---then I cut out the insides (window panes?) with the scroll saw---then I filed it until it looked good--then I used the scroll saw to cut out the whole windscreen---sanded and filed till it looked good--then I soaked it with Windex (the ammonia softens wood) and started bending till it would seat on the model---then I glued it on and used a little filler (Elmer's Plasic Wood). It came out good. It's an awful little feature but I think it will help. I did use the windscreen to cut a piece of clear plastic which I'll stick on after it's painted.
The whole job took an hour or so.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #162 on:** January 19, 2007, 07:41:35 PM »

Quote from: Richard Grogan on January 19, 2007, 05:35:08 PM

Hey, Frank!

Hows about taking a packing peanut and painting it fleshtone(or peanut color) and doing a Mr Peanut pilot??!!
That might be pretty cool, and lightweight too! Or just use a real peanut. Might have to fuelproof him though!!

That's an excellent idea Richard!!
I'm glad to know you've peeked in on this thread. I've been thinking for a while that Ray and I were the only ones here.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #163 on:** January 19, 2007, 09:33:34 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 19, 2007, 07:41:35 PM

That's an excellent idea Richard!!
I'm glad to know you've peeked in on this thread. I've been thinking for a while that Ray and I were the only ones here.

I like the little stuff too. Good to check on you guys to see if I can learn something new too! This Project looks like fun!! Looked like a peanut man would fit right into that hole. And, if you get mad, you can just crack his scull and eat his"peanut brain" hehehe.....that would blow some newcomer's mind!! Just kiddin..These birds look like a hoot to build and will be to fly also. Pappy DeBolt would be proud of both of you guys!

frank carlisle · « **Reply #164 on:** January 19, 2007, 10:39:02 PM »

Yes, Richard the little stuff is what makes the magic. This little plane has been a ton of fun to build and I've had a blast building along with Ray on it. The Queen Bee build was a load of fun too. I'd like to do another half A build on line with you guys again. Any ideas?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #165 on:** January 20, 2007, 09:35:09 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 19, 2007, 10:39:02 PM

Yes, Richard the little stuff is what makes the magic. This little plane has been a ton of fun to build and I've had a blast building along with Ray on it. The Queen Bee build was a load of fun too. I'd like to do another half A build on line with you guys again. Any ideas?

I'll keep an eye out for another 1/2A build. I agree it's been (and continues to be) a hoot.

Your windscreen is just plumb cute, as they say in OK. I thought of trying to paint a frame on the edge of mine to make it stand out a little more; I may try it yet, maybe with fingernail polish or something. But your wood frame takes the prize on that little detail.

I got my LO guide fabbed and on, and the old eyelets removed and holes plugged. Glad I did it, it looks better and will certainly function better. I'll get pics on this evening. Also working on the LG fairing; yes, I get the whole concept now, about gluing the LE together around the wire before pulling the TE together, etc. Thank you muches, Frank.

--Ray

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #166 on:** January 20, 2007, 10:23:28 AM »

Here is a little thing that I do;
I round off the top of the rotor shaft and burnish it a little, I think that it might cause less friction, probably not but.....
This is not that important because the test models were just left as is with nor problem at all.
Ray,
will I see an Autogiro in your line up too?
Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #167 on:** January 20, 2007, 10:42:39 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 20, 2007, 09:35:09 AM

I'll keep an eye out for another 1/2A build. I agree it's been (and continues to be) a hoot.

Your windscreen is just plumb cute, as they say in OK. I thought of trying to paint a frame on the edge of mine to make it stand out a little more; I may try it yet, maybe with fingernail polish or something. But your wood frame takes the prize on that little detail.

I got my LO guide fabbed and on, and the old eyelets removed and holes plugged. Glad I did it, it looks better and will certainly function better. I'll get pics on this evening. Also working on the LG fairing; yes, I get the whole concept now, about gluing the LE together around the wire before pulling the TE together, etc. Thank you muches, Frank.

--Ray

You know this online building is a real blast. I can't remember having so much fun building. There are two models that I've had a hankering to build--Fierce Arrow & SE-5. I could get into either of those for a 1/2 A build. It would be nice to complicate the dickens out of them. Full body, built up wing> Mybe a Norvel .061 for power. I'm dreaming here. The SE-5 could be allout scale............................oh well.

Yup the windscreen is aa humdinger. The surprising thing was that it wasn't hard to do at all....once I got started it was just fun, no hassle at all.

I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures tonite. I'll bet if you paint the outline on your wind screen it will be very cool. I think nail polish is fuel proof.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #168 on:** January 20, 2007, 12:08:43 PM »

Here's the last building picture............I started doping it a little while ago.

Ray I plugged the cockpit--now to find or make a pilot. I think the peanut idea is way cool but I want something more serious.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #169 on:** January 20, 2007, 04:19:15 PM »

Quote from: LARRY RICE on January 20, 2007, 10:23:28 AM

Here is a little thing that I do;
I round off the top of the rotor shaft and burnish it a little, I think that it might cause less friction, probably not but.....
This is not that important because the test models were just left as is with nor problem at all.
Ray,
will I see an Autogiro in your line up too?
Larry

Hi Larry,

Hope your vacation was pleasant. I put a small washer under the rotor hub on top of the pylon, so I don't think there'll be any issue with friction at all. Frank's right, it does spin very freely in the slightest breeze.

If you're asking if I'm gonna design an autogyro for my lineup, I - don't - think - so! As stated before, I know virtually nothing about these things; it would take a serious effort at designing "by guess and by golly", test flying, redesigning, test flying, trying something else, test flying...you get the picture. Got too many other irons in the fire to make that kind of committment. I'm content to let you corner the market on autogyros!

This is a neat little ship, by the way; been a real fun experience building it.

Frank, here's the promised pics of the LO guide as perceived by me. I have since these shots put on fillets and filler, and have the LG struts about 3/4 done. I stripped my model back down--rotor is off, controls are off, cowling and engine are off, windscreen is off--preparatory to finishing. So these will probably be the last pictures until I'm ready to put it all back together again.

--Ray

P.S. that Fierce Arrow might be fun...no kit, just plans? Not that there's anything wrong with that...

frank carlisle · « **Reply #170 on:** January 20, 2007, 04:45:54 PM »

Awesome Ray.........the extra holes will give you leeway. Good idea. And the height looks good. I do hope you'll give us a peek at the gear fairings.

About the Fierce Arrow........I have a Bratco Hexdrone over here. It's powered by a Norvel .061. I flew it once on 35 foot lines but they were way to short. It looked like 52 ft. lines would be better. The plane flew stable as all get out. I think if we used it for a starting point......................and build a 1/2 A fierce arrow. The whole thing is there all we'd need to do is generate the airfoil, engineer the airframe add a fuselage and vertical fin and we'd have it.

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #171 on:** January 20, 2007, 04:50:40 PM »

Ray,
After you finish this one you will be an expert, but then it is easy to be an expert when you are all alone in your field. I got lucky I had Walt to design mine, then a hand full of fliers to make suggestions. One guy enlarged it to a .35 size and used balsa rotors.

I made two, one from a magazine with a Mc Coy .35 crankcase as the rotor bearing, it had bass wood rotors

and the other was a Scientific kit. I was so impressed that I did not want to kit any of them. At a partners meeting my partners suggested that it would be a good kit. I talked it over with our design team and with a few rotor modifications I was convinced. In the scientific kit the rotor spun intermittenly and would leave the model if they got a real good spin going. We fixed all of that.

easy. We had to keep it as close to the way Walt designed it so it could enter Musciano contest and that was a consern.
I am glad that you are enjoying building the kit, I hope that there are many more hours of enjoyment in it for you.
Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #172 on:** January 20, 2007, 05:00:18 PM »

Larry, welcome back. I too hope you had a great vacation. As you can see we've been busy with these puppies.
Here is a question I hope you can answer..........Do you think our models are still with in the design range to be legal at a Musciano contest?

BTW.........this model really snagged me. It cought my imagination and has been a pure pleasure to build.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #173 on:** January 20, 2007, 06:10:40 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 20, 2007, 04:45:54 PM

Awesome Ray.........the extra holes will give you leeway. Good idea. And the height looks good. I do hope you'll give us a peek at the gear fairings.

About the Fierce Arrow........I have a Bratco Hexdrone over here. It's powered by a Norvel .061. I flew it once on 35 foot lines but they were way to short. It looked like 52 ft. lines would be better. The plane flew stable as all get out. I think if we used it for a starting point......................and build a 1/2 A fierce arrow. The whole thing is there all we'd need to do is generate the airfoil, engineer the airframe add a fuselage and vertical fin and we'd have it.

I'm game if you are...Deltas I can handle. Hafta pick up some original Fierce Arrow plans, or at least some pictures, and see what it would take to get down to our size. The Fierce Arrow is a .35-.40 size plane isn't it? Or am I completely confused?

--Ray

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #174 on:** January 20, 2007, 06:49:23 PM »

My vacation had it's good and bad sides. I got away for 3 days, I had fun, and it did not cost much.....all pluses. I did have a bad reaction to my medication, my doctor has not returned my call, and I am swamped in new orders.....well so-so.
My girl friend of 30 years was very understanding so all is well (yes I know I have comittment problems).
Next month at the partners meeting I am going to prepose a "Special Craftsman Model Kit" line. It will have different models than our other lines have but you will need to do a lot more work to build them. You will need to carve the canopy, airfoil the wings and use patterns to make some parts like the stabilizer, rudder, fin, and elevators. The plans will have full size patterns and detailed instructions with a lot of drawings on how to do things. The kits will be aimed at those who enjoy building and want to do more than what we allow them to do in our kits now. What do you think? The two kits in this line so far would be the "Bullet" and "Cyclon" both Scientific kits. I am also asking to go ahead with some non flying desplay scale model kits in our Junior Ace line.
Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #175 on:** January 20, 2007, 07:51:41 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 20, 2007, 06:10:40 PM

I'm game if you are...Deltas I can handle. Hafta pick up some original Fierce Arrow plans, or at least some pictures, and see what it would take to get down to our size. The Fierce Arrow is a .35-.40 size plane isn't it? Or am I completely confused?

--Ray

So.......let's build a 1/2A Fierce Arrow.!!
How does this sound for starters?

Power Norvel .061
Use the Bratco Hexdrone for a starting point.

I have a set of plans for the Fierce Arrow (2 actually) so I will send you one of them.
If this is good for you, then I will clear the table tomorrow and measure out the Hexdrone and develop construction drawings for me to use. Then at the beginning of the week I will box up the Hexdrone and a set of Fierce Arrow plans and ship them to you. Then you can measure it out and start your construction drawings. At that point we start a new thread and start comparing design ideas. We develop a cool model. Oh..and have a load of fun.

here is a picture of the Hexdrone and I can e-mail you pictures of the Fierce Arrow.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #176 on:** January 20, 2007, 07:58:40 PM »

Quote from: LARRY RICE on January 20, 2007, 06:49:23 PM

My vacation had it's good and bad sides. I got away for 3 days, I had fun, and it did not cost much.....all pluses. I did have a bad reaction to my medication, my doctor has not returned my call, and I am swamped in new orders.....well so-so.
My girl friend of 30 years was very understanding so all is well (yes I know I have comittment problems).
Next month at the partners meeting I am going to prepose a "Special Craftsman Model Kit" line. It will have different models than our other lines have but you will need to do a lot more work to build them. You will need to carve the canopy, airfoil the wings and use patterns to make some parts like the stabilizer, rudder, fin, and elevators. The plans will have full size patterns and detailed instructions with a lot of drawings on how to do things. The kits will be aimed at those who enjoy building and want to do more than what we allow them to do in our kits now. What do you think? The two kits in this line so far would be the "Bullet" and "Cyclon" both Scientific kits. I am also asking to go ahead with some non flying desplay scale model kits in our Junior Ace line.

Too bad about the meds-vacation is the worste time to not feel well. I'm very happy thaat you are "swamped" with orders, that's what keeps BHM going.

A "Craftsman's Series" sounds like a good idea. I am not familiar with either of the planes proposed for the series. Is it possible to get a sneek peek?

Larry

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #177 on:** January 21, 2007, 01:04:38 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 20, 2007, 07:51:41 PM

So.......let's build a 1/2A Fierce Arrow.!!
How does this sound for starters?

Power Norvel .061
Use the Bratco Hexdrone for a starting point.

I

Sound good Frank!

I have a Hexdrone also thats not been fueled yet. Has a BW 049 Cox on it and just looks like a badass critter.I think the Norvell .061 is a tad too much for the size. looks like a do-able scratch repo into something a little different. seems like a good airfoil.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #178 on:** January 21, 2007, 01:15:03 AM »

Quote from: Richard Grogan on January 21, 2007, 01:04:38 AM

Sound good Frank!

I have a Hexdrone also thats not been fueled yet. Has a BW 049 Cox on it and just looks like a badass critter.I think the Norvell .061 is a tad too much for the size. looks like a do-able scratch repo into something a little different. seems like a good airfoil.

How in the world did you end up with a Hexdrone with a BW .049 on it!!

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #179 on:** January 21, 2007, 01:47:24 AM »

I bought it years ago when they didnt offer a included engine.....musta been 5 years ago when it was first introduced...

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #180 on:** January 21, 2007, 02:53:00 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on January 20, 2007, 07:51:41 PM

So.......let's build a 1/2A Fierce Arrow.!!
How does this sound for starters?

Power Norvel .061
Use the Bratco Hexdrone for a starting point.

I have a set of plans for the Fierce Arrow (2 actually) so I will send you one of them.
If this is good for you, then I will clear the table tomorrow and measure out the Hexdrone and develop construction drawings for me to use. Then at the beginning of the week I will box up the Hexdrone and a set of Fierce Arrow plans and ship them to you. Then you can measure it out and start your construction drawings. At that point we start a new thread and start comparing design ideas. We develop a cool model. Oh..and have a load of fun.

here is a picture of the Hexdrone and I can e-mail you pictures of the Fierce Arrow.

Sounds like a great plan to me. That approach might take a lot of coordination through this forum, but that's where the fun is, isn't it? Bring it on!

Richard, the Norvel .061 is a powerhouse, all right. We'll just have to scale the little Fierce Arrow accordingly...flying blind here, but the Hexdrone dimensions do appear a little small for it. You might recall my LittleAxe full-bodied stunter is 36" span, and as long as it's built light the .061 is plenty of power for it. I agree with Frank, it's a good choice of engine to design around. Except we need to lose that Norvel tank mount and go with beams. Tank's 'way too small for the thirsty .061. Or I guess we could use an adapter mount, seems like one is available. Hmmmm, getting a little ahead of myself.

Boy, we all seem to be up a little late tonight, don't we?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #181 on:** January 21, 2007, 06:10:15 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 21, 2007, 02:53:00 AM

Sounds like a great plan to me. That approach might take a lot of coordination through this forum, but that's where the fun is, isn't it? Bring it on!

Richard, the Norvel .061 is a powerhouse, all right. We'll just have to scale the little Fierce Arrow accordingly...flying blind here, but the Hexdrone dimensions do appear a little small for it. You might recall my LittleAxe full-bodied stunter is 36" span, and as long as it's built light the .061 is plenty of power for it. I agree with Frank, it's a good choice of engine to design around. Except we need to lose that Norvel tank mount and go with beams. Tank's 'way too small for the thirsty .061. Or I guess we could use an adapter mount, seems like one is available. Hmmmm, getting a little ahead of myself.

Boy, we all seem to be up a little late tonight, don't we?

--Ray

O.K. I'm in!! We'll do a .061 Fierce Arrow!!
Ray I'll get my drawing done and get the plane and FA plans off to you in a couple days.
Richard are you coming in on this one?

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #182 on:** January 21, 2007, 09:08:38 AM »

Frank,
The "Cyclon" is the plane that Walt is holding in his picture on the box covers of our kits. The "Bullet" ic a modern looking sleek plane with sharply tapered wingd (24").
Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #183 on:** January 22, 2007, 06:42:43 AM »

I'm still working on the Auto-Gyro. Got it all the way to primer.

We finally hve enough snow to shovel here in Detroit.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #184 on:** January 22, 2007, 09:13:14 AM »

I just squirted a coat of primer on mine a little while ago. Tryin' to get it, and 2 other prjects, done and out of the way before we start on the --whatever it's to be called --1/2A Fierce Arrow. Gotta come up with a name, Frank...

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #185 on:** January 22, 2007, 10:00:06 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 22, 2007, 09:13:14 AM

I just squirted a coat of primer on mine a little while ago. Tryin' to get it, and 2 other prjects, done and out of the way before we start on the --whatever it's to be called --1/2A Fierce Arrow. Gotta come up with a name, Frank...

--Ray

The name will come as we work up the model.-----I'll be doing my measuring and drawing today for the Arrow. First I gotta wet sand the gyro and get it off the bench. I had to take a couple backward steps. I used Elmer's Wood Filler for the fillets and the dope blistered. Funny though because there was no blistering on flat spots, any way I cut out the blisters and coated with epoxy. And now I'm moving forward again with yet another thing on the not to do list which gets longer with every model.

EDIT-------it's later in the day. Masking is starting. These little planes are hard to hold onto and mask at the same time.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #186 on:** January 22, 2007, 07:09:21 PM »

Now that's interesting...I use Elmer's wood filler too for my fillets. I didn't think anyone else did since it's never mentioned. You would think since it's made for harder wood (well, pine, anyway) that it would be too hard for comatibility with balsa, but it isn't. Sands down easily. What's that about great minds...?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #187 on:** January 22, 2007, 08:10:09 PM »

Great minds?

I never mention the Elmer's because I'm afraid somebody ( like a haloed expert type) would laugh and say it didn't work. Then I'd be screwed!!

I'm painting red as we speak. I wonder how they mask off the bottoms of the full scale low wing planes. Do you think they roll under there with a dolly and mask? Spraying must be a tuffy. Maybe they get a bunch of blankets and a couple buddies and flip the planes onto their backs.

There's a picture of my model in colors coming soon.

Where are you with yours Ray?

EDIT------I just got the masking off of the gyro. There are touch ups to do and I still need to paint the hub of the rotor. And I wish I would have used Ms. Ashley red rather than the insignia red. And I should have held out till I got stencils for lettering. But hey!!

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #188 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:12:11 PM »

Wow! It looks great, Frank.
Anybody knows that they have the plane fly low and slow while the painter rides in the back seat of a convertable and paints. I am still trying to figure out how a fly lands on a ceiling and how he takes off again.....free fall?
Larry

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #189 on:** January 23, 2007, 01:23:26 AM »

Very nice...mine's still sitting out in the garage with a coat of primer on it. I'm still trying to figure out a color scheme. Now I bought a new digital camera and trying to figure out what all it will do. Frantically Monocoating another model preparatory to painting. Had another little project lined up hoping to get it whipped out before starting the Fierce Arrow tinkering...whose byline says "Too many planes, not enough time"?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #190 on:** January 23, 2007, 03:35:42 PM »

Quote from: LARRY RICE on January 22, 2007, 11:12:11 PM

Wow! It looks great, Frank.
Anybody knows that they have the plane fly low and slow while the painter rides in the back seat of a convertable and paints. I am still trying to figure out how a fly lands on a ceiling and how he takes off again.....free fall?
Larry

REALLY

frank carlisle · « **Reply #191 on:** January 23, 2007, 03:43:15 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 23, 2007, 01:23:26 AM

Very nice...mine's still sitting out in the garage with a coat of primer on it. I'm still trying to figure out a color scheme. Now I bought a new digital camera and trying to figure out what all it will do. Frantically Monocoating another model preparatory to painting. Had another little project lined up hoping to get it whipped out before starting the Fierce Arrow tinkering...whose byline says "Too many planes, not enough time"?

--Ray

A new camera?? Way cool.

I don't know what your paint scheme is, but you do know that you have to raise the bar with it.

I forget who says "too many planes, not enuff time. But it rings true doesn't it?

Today I fixed the most offensive bad spots in the paint job and put two coats of clear on my gyro. It's starting to get shiny now. I figure by this time tomorrow it will be RTF and I can move onto the Arrow. Actually I'm waiting till you get the box. Don't worry though in respect for your time crunch I'm waiting till Monday to send it to you. So you have a week to get other things done.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #192 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:19:29 PM »

Good, that sounds just about right.

You painted the cowling...I guess it took the paint with no problem...>?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #193 on:** January 23, 2007, 04:42:48 PM »

Yup---------the cowling took the paint. No sanding, No primer, No nothing.
Can't wait to see your auto-gyro.
Have you considered the effect of the rotor? I noticed that like mine yours is going to rotate counter clock wise. Could that possibly turn the model in on us? HHMMMMMMM..............

Bill Little · « **Reply #194 on:** January 23, 2007, 10:20:27 PM »

Frank, what did you prime and paint yours with?

Also, have you looked at Barry Baxter's site? I *think* he has plans for a 1/2A Fierce Arrow already. Might give you some ideas.

I have a Fierce Arrow 400 which is a surprisingly good flying plane with a McCoy RH 19.

Bill <><

frank carlisle · « **Reply #195 on:** January 23, 2007, 11:57:40 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on January 23, 2007, 10:20:27 PM

Frank, what did you prime and paint yours with?

Also, have you looked at Barry Baxter's site? I *think* he has plans for a 1/2A Fierce Arrow already. Might give you some ideas.

I have a Fierce Arrow 400 which is a surprisingly good flying plane with a McCoy RH 19.

Bill <><

Hey Bill,
I painted mine with Brodak dope and primer.
I will look for Barry Baxter's Site. I hope it is posted in the hobby shop section here.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #196 on:** January 24, 2007, 12:05:09 AM »

For a little airplane this BHM Auto-Gyro is sure making a long thread!!

Well, I just finished the leadouts on my model. And it is RTF. The all up weight is 6 1/4 oz.

Check out the pushrod guide.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #197 on:** January 24, 2007, 01:52:54 AM »

Very good. Slick little pushrod guide--washer soldered into a screw slot. Congrats on being done! I'm telling you, switch those wheels and you'll be under 6 oz.!

I've about got mine sanded down, ready for color. I did finish the monocoat job on the other, it's ready for primer. Then a little 2-3 day project and I'm good to go on our new collaboration. Re: Barry Baxter plans--looks like we may be trying to re-invent the wheel? You want to re-think our subject? That Humbug's still sitting there.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #198 on:** January 24, 2007, 05:15:48 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on January 24, 2007, 01:52:54 AM

Very good. Slick little pushrod guide--washer soldered into a screw slot. Congrats on being done! I'm telling you, switch those wheels and you'll be under 6 oz.!

I've about got mine sanded down, ready for color. I did finish the monocoat job on the other, it's ready for primer. Then a little 2-3 day project and I'm good to go on our new collaboration. Re: Barry Baxter plans--looks like we may be trying to re-invent the wheel? You want to re-think our subject? That Humbug's still sitting there.

--Ray

I guess that pushrod guide has been around for a long time. I sure like it.
I do plan on getting different wheels. I had to put the kit wheels on in order to be able to call this a done project.
I am rethinking our next project. I'd like to find Barry Baxter's site. Do you have a link?

I'll be looking forward to seeing pix of your Gyro. Mine is very nose heavy.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #199 on:** January 24, 2007, 08:31:27 AM »

I just found it: www.controllineplans.com

He calls it a "1/2Arrow", kinda clever when you think about it. 30" span, 254 sq. in. Listed under his "1/2A or so" page.

If you look in his "Sorts" (sports?) category, "designers" page, you can find both the 1/2Arrow ("Barry Baxter designs") and the original Fierce Arrow 400 ("Bill Netzeband designs") for comparison. Frankly, Frank (hehe) I think he missed it...made a really cool looking ship look rather ordinary. We might could do better.

--Ray