Author Topic: BHM 1/2A auto gyro (Read 30963 times)

frank carlisle · « **on:** December 17, 2006, 06:10:27 AM »

http://blackhawkmodels.com/gyro.html

The link above will show you the new 1/2A autogyro being offered by Black Hawk Models.

I just got two of them from BHM and plan on building one pretty soon.

Here are some pix of the kit. Are any of you guys interested?

I think it would qualify for a Musciano Contest and be a unique entry.

[gvideo=400,326]7110940197024098711[/gvideo]

Google has started a new policy of screening so it will be a few hrs before showing.

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2006, 08:56:00 AM »

Frank;
I had posted pictures of the BHM auto Gyro in the scale section. Since you have an extra kit I'll take it.

Leroy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2006, 09:43:14 AM »

Leroy,

I'll send the kit out tomorrow. I still have your address. Do you still have mine? The kit price is listed $32.95. Send that I'll cover the shipping.

Hey man I hope you have a digital camera under the tree next week!! Even the cheapest digital camera from Wal-Mart will work better than the one you have now. Since I won't be starting my auto-gyro till next week sometime maybe we could post pix of our models as we go.

Attention Fellow 1/2A modelers--- If you'd like to get in on this I'll cover shipping and have the Auto-Gyro sent directly to you from the factory. Just post on this thread to let me know.

bob branch · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2006, 06:12:25 PM »

frank

Any odds on whether it will fly inverted?

bob

frank carlisle · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2006, 06:29:07 PM »

LONG BOB LONG...................................

It should be pretty cool though and certainly an interesting diversion at the circle.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2006, 06:38:07 PM »

Quote from: bob branch on December 17, 2006, 06:12:25 PM

frank

Any odds on whether it will fly inverted?

bob

I'll take that bet at any odds...it will not.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2006, 06:22:39 AM »

It may not fly inverted but you could throw a snake into one of Humongouses' cars during the raid on the refinery.

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2006, 09:12:45 AM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on December 17, 2006, 09:43:14 AM

Leroy,

I'll send the kit out tomorrow. I still have your address. Do you still have mine? The kit price is listed $32.95. Send that I'll cover the shipping.

Frank;
I'll get the check in the mail for the above amount either today or tomorrow. I have to go and buy more stamps.

Leroy

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2006, 09:30:39 AM »

Inverted? I think that it would depend on how long you plan to remain inverted. Anything past a second then depends upon height. However a loop might be OK! We sell replacement rotors to the more daring pilots.
Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2006, 10:37:04 AM »

Roger that Leroy.

Mr. Larry Rice----hi ya there buddy!! Anyone that's ever seen me fly a model airplane will tell you that I'll try tricky things with them, so getting the auto-gyro to do tricks is a certainty with me on the handle.
I've examined the parts in the kit and it looks very nice.
I'm a little surprised that some of the other guys here aren't jumping on this one. Maybe once Leroy and I start building them...........................................
BTW....i will be needing additional rotors. How about sending me 4 sets?

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:29:37 PM »

You know Farnk, there is a chance that you might not break them. I will get then off tomorrow.
The Auto might do that saber dance thing.....hum?
Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:45:12 PM »

Larry,
With spare blades on hand they probably won't break, but if I didn't have spare parts they'd be certain to break. It's a law. I forget the guys name though.

Bill Little · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:53:39 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on December 18, 2006, 01:45:12 PM

Larry,
With spare blades on hand they probably won't break, but if I didn't have spare parts they'd be certain to break. It's a law. I forget the guys name though.

It's one of "Murphy's Laws".

frank carlisle · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:57:27 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on December 18, 2006, 01:53:39 PM

It's one of "Murphy's Laws".

Yeah that butthead

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:57:43 PM »

Frank
You are referring to Murphy's Law.
He also wrote:
If (N) parts are required, (N-1) are available.
The most expensive part will fail first, unless there is a part that is harder to replace.
Clancy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2006, 01:59:02 PM »

Quote from: Clancy Arnold on December 18, 2006, 01:57:43 PM

Frank
You are referring to Murphy's Law.
He also wrote:
If (N) parts are required, (N-1) are available.
The most expensive part will fail first, unless there is a part that is harder to replace.
Clancy

yeah that butthead

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2006, 12:04:46 AM »

[
I'm a little surprised that some of the other guys here aren't jumping on this one. Maybe once Leroy and I start building them...........................................

Quote

I'm still thinkin', Frank. Very tempting, you know how I like oddball stuff. Just not sure where I'd find the time to build it. I'm not a kit collector like some of you guys are!

Oh, hey, send it on...can I PayPal you? $32.95, right? Any S&H?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2006, 05:32:48 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler link=topic=3096.msg22096#msg22096 date=1

[quote

I'm still thinkin', Frank. Very tempting, you know how I like oddball stuff. Just not sure where I'd find the time to build it. I'm not a kit collector like some of you guys are!

Oh, hey, send it on...can I PayPal you? $32.95, right? Any S&H?

--Ray

I don't have pay-pal Ray-but you know my address. I emailed Larry this morning and asked him to get your auto-gyro off to you right away. Thanks for joining up. I'm sure this will be a fun model. I hope you'll join me here with progress reports and building pix.
I'll cover the shipping for the model.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2006, 08:19:11 AM »

Yeah, I know where you live...sounds ominous, doesn't it? OK, a check for $32.95 to you post haste. Thanks Frank! Oughtta be an interesting model.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2006, 01:39:47 PM »

I got an email from the Red Baron, he says he'll have your auto-gyro in the mail tomorrow Ray. Let me know when you get it o.k.?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #20 on:** December 19, 2006, 04:20:49 PM »

Will do.

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:45:54 PM »

OK Frank I'll bit the Queen Bee has been a blast so this should be fun.

Then I suppose I'll be building a Bi- Slob. OOOHHH YOU GUYS

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #22 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:48:38 PM »

$32.95 to you Frank?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2006, 04:20:54 PM »

Quote from: Mike Spiess on December 20, 2006, 03:48:38 PM

$32.95 to you Frank?

Yes Mike to me. Don't worry about shipping I'll pay for it. Send me your address and I'll get your auto-gyro off to you right away.

How's your Bee coming lomg?

Mike Spiess · « **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2006, 08:03:15 PM »

Pics of the Bee tomorrow. Thanks Frank

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2006, 03:04:00 AM »

Here are some information and helpful hints on making a successful autogiro.
When we started this project we knew that Scientific had run into some problems. The three things that plaqued their kit was that the rotor hung up and stoped, the rotor wobbled, and the rotor sometimes left the plane while in flight.
To cure the first problem we re-designed the rotor hub so that you do not need to smash the eyelet on the botom of the hub. Thanks to modern cements we did not need to hold the hub together with the eyelet. The second problem was cured by balancing the rotor blades, We cut them all from the same sheet of wood. The last problem and the most critical was fixed by using a screw to hold the hub to the rotor shaft, instead of a nail.
When you assemble the hub and blades it is important that you get the blade angle right on all of the blades. I suggest that you make a stick with the correct taper on it and use it to hold each blade at the proper angle until the cement dries and put extra coats of cement over the hub and rotor attachment area.

GOOD LUCK!

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2006, 10:51:30 AM »

Frank;
I received the kit yesterday.

Leroy

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #27 on:** December 24, 2006, 03:50:49 PM »

OK guys, get this: I received the kit TODAY, the 24th, that's right, SUNDAY, the postman came to my door with the box. I guess they're working overtime trying to clear out all the packages sent for Christmas. I am impressed.

Oh, the kit looks interesting also.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #28 on:** December 24, 2006, 04:09:32 PM »

That is so strange!!...........I got the extra rotors I ordered today!! SUNDAY!! This hs never ever happened before.

Maybe our mailmen know that these lite little boxes contain model airplanes and don't want us to wait even one extra minute..................

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #29 on:** December 24, 2006, 04:20:34 PM »

Frank, you really ordered extra rotors? Isn't that a little fatalistic? Or are you determined to attempt inverted flight even though you KNOW what will happen...

This appears to be really just about a half-autogyro; half stationary wing. I bet it would fly without the rotor at all...but wouldn't look nearly as cool.

Come to think of it, it may have enough wing to fly on inverted, when the rotor stops from the reversed forces! Then when it starts rotating backward, maybe the extra lift would be enough to turn it back over, then the rotor would stop again, fly on the wing alone, rotor starts spinning the "right" way again...you suppose the rotor could take that kind of stress?

Hey Frank, you can try it for the rest of us, you've already got the extra rotors!

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #30 on:** December 24, 2006, 05:07:04 PM »

Yes Ray,
I ordered extra sets of rotors-4- to be exact but who's counting. I plan to fly mine on a local church parking lot I've had my eye on. It stands empty every day but Sunday.

According to Larry this is a Walt Musciano scale model of an actual full size plane people actually sat in and flew. I think I saw an article on it in Mechanics Illustrated when I was a kid. For sure I remember MiMi.

I think it will fly inverted and for the reasons you stated. At the very least it should provide for some interesting climbs and dives.

I think hollowing the fuse down to a thin shell is going to be a good place to start. Also I think I'll sand an airfoil shape into the rotors and balance them before I fly it.

Have you started gluing pieces yet Ray?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #31 on:** December 24, 2006, 05:25:23 PM »

Naw, not yet, I've got so many projects going now I'm not sure which one I'm working on at any given moment...I'm supposed to be working on finalized plans for the LittleAxe but haven't been able to get it done. Just finished some kits, so that's my next priority I guess. Then I have 2 updated versions of existing designs I need to build prototypes of, just have a wing finished so far. I have a new Brodak .049 I picked up somewhere that's super stiff, I need to break it in sometime...also a VA I've had for a year now, still not broken in. Then there's always that big .40-powered biplane that's my permanent winter project, I really oughtta try to make some progress on that...you get the idea. But never fear, I'll work this thing in somewhere soon.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #32 on:** December 24, 2006, 05:45:59 PM »

gEE RAY......................I know that feeling!!

Let's see.............I still have my LA HEAT to finish. My Queen Bee to finish. My 1/2A Snapper still needs covering. My Bi-Slob needs a couple patches........Well I guess that's it for partly complete projects.

Leroy Heikes · « **Reply #33 on:** December 25, 2006, 10:03:24 AM »

If I get home early enough tonight I'm going to start mine! That and a 1/2A sopwith camel kit.

Leroy

frank carlisle · « **Reply #34 on:** December 27, 2006, 07:17:55 PM »

I got my auto-gyro started tonite.....................

I gouged out a lot of wood from the fuselage. Like 3/4 oz. I'm going to sand the fuselage tomorrow after work and set up the stab and elevator. Maybe the wing too. I have a "known to work good" black widow to stick on it. I'm going to try to have this one done by the weekend and then maybe Monday I can get some video of it going around.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #35 on:** December 28, 2006, 02:01:28 AM »

I think I'm gonna try and put some beam mounts in mine. I Been looking at it and don't think it'll be a problem. Might add a little weight, just means more balsa to hog out of there. I'll probably leave them "too long" and adjust the balance by moving the engine after it's built. I got a neat little blue Brodak I think I'll stick on there, hafta paint the plane blue to match it. Then I'll have to make a hatch for tank access...and different gear mount...

By the way, what are you guys doing about the airfoil? Are we supposed to radius off the top corner for a flat-bottom A/F? Or round off the whole LE for a teardrop? Surely not just leave that square flat LE as is. Lemme hear your thoughts.

--Ray

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #36 on:** December 28, 2006, 07:54:24 AM »

If you do not mind my input, if you are using Brobak's .049 with the three screws in the backplate you could cut a thin metal plate to mount under the screws and secure it iver the landing gear or you could put the gear behind the bulkhead and use Brodak's mounts.
The airfoil is meant to be a flat A/F. Simply round the leading edge. Unless you too think that inverted flight is a doable thing.

Larry

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #37 on:** December 28, 2006, 09:28:07 AM »

Quote from: LARRY RICE on December 28, 2006, 07:54:24 AM

If you do not mind my input, if you are using Brobak's .049 with the three screws in the backplate you could cut a thin metal plate to mount under the screws and secure it iver the landing gear or you could put the gear behind the bulkhead and use Brodak's mounts.
The airfoil is meant to be a flat A/F. Simply round the leading edge. Unless you too think that inverted flight is a doable thing.
Larry

Can't speak for the other guys, but I don't mind anyone's input! Especially concerning something in which I have absolutely no experience--like, maybe, an autogyro...

The Brodak I have has a round threaded-in backplate just like my VAs and Norvels, no easy way to convert it to radial mount. I could make (have made) an adapter, a plate that bolts on the radial firewall and carries its own beams, but it adds a little unnecessary weight IMO, at least mine did. I think building it from the beginning with beam mounts will be the most practical way to go.

--Ray

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #38 on:** December 28, 2006, 09:55:48 AM »

I guess that John sent me a different engine than the one that you have. I, too, use to make some motor mounts for beam engines. For the Gilbert I made one with the beams mounted on a plate as one unit. For the TD I left them seperate and I put them into a race plane kit I was producing. They are easy to make out of .030 Alum. and once bent and bolted to the engine they are very strong. They are lighter than any fuel tank mounted onto any engine. Some builders mount the landing gear behind the bulkhead but this will work loose over time so if you do that use a lot of Epoxy to harden the surounding wood.
Good Luck! I am rooting for you!
Larry

frank carlisle · « **Reply #39 on:** December 28, 2006, 08:55:08 PM »

I went with rounding the leading edge on the wing. Got the main section done and then turned my attention to the motor mount. I am bending new landing gear wire to fit in the slot on the back of the engine and plan on using the cowling that came with the kit.
I didn't feel like doing much more in the shop tonite so I plunked down in front of the TV with the dog.
Here is a pic of where I'm at so far.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #40 on:** December 29, 2006, 07:02:50 AM »

Never saw quite that approach to landing gear before. You are aware, I know, that's the air intake--venturi--you're using for your landing-gear slot; you don't think that'll restrict too much there? I see the hole through the firewall, that oughtta help. Still,I think I'd rather slot the firewall to accept the square-bent gear. But I guess that's why everyone's planes are different.

Still haven't got a start on mine.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #41 on:** December 29, 2006, 01:01:49 PM »

Thanks Ray----------I'll rethink and doublecheck the landing gear position. The air intke isn't restricted at all except down the sides and I figured that the whole in the firewall would give it sufficient room to breathe. Now I'll probably go back to the kit gear.

LARRY RICE · « **Reply #42 on:** December 29, 2006, 01:16:16 PM »

I read an article once about a modeler who, wanting more speed from his Cox engine, cut a slot to the intake in the bulkhead. He claimed that it gave him ram air. Cox later made some changes in their plastic planes to bring more air to the intake.
Larry

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #43 on:** December 29, 2006, 09:50:56 PM »

Finally got a little start on mine...got the holes cut for the beam mounts (1/4" square) through to the interior cavity. Hogged out a BUNCH of balsa, mostly from the back end. More will be coming out. Didn't get pics, I'll try to soon. (The camera is never on the same level of the house as me when I need it; don't wanna stop work to go climb the stairs and look for it--I'm always thinking, "I'll bring it next time I go up (or down, as the case may be)." Then of course I forget. None of you have that problem, I guess?

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #44 on:** December 29, 2006, 09:54:34 PM »

not me Ray my mind is sharp as one of those ....hmmmm.......one of those........................

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #45 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:01:09 AM »

I have a mind like a steel trap. Closed...and rusted...

frank carlisle · « **Reply #46 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:22:53 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on December 30, 2006, 08:01:09 AM

I have a mind like a steel trap. Closed...and rusted...

Now that's rich..................

Well it's Saturday morning here in the Carlisle house and I have a progress picture to post.....I'll be using the kit landing gear after all. And I'm afraid I'm going to have to cover this one with tissue, so for sure it won't be ready to go by Monday.
On the sunny side though- look how big that wing is. I'm sure this thing will loop with a Golden Bee on it's nose.

Ray do you think yellow would be a good color choice?? BUT....do you think it would fly if it was white and blue?

frank carlisle · « **Reply #47 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:30:01 AM »

Of course all this diddling with 1/2A stuff is really putting me behind in the "Build a New Stunter" schedule.
Well I guess I'll have to get a couple more hundred flights out of my Victory from last year ( with no crashin'). And I do have my LA Heat which will definitely be circle ready by May. SOOoooooo.........I'm good to go.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #48 on:** December 30, 2006, 02:29:10 PM »

Quote from: frank carlisle on December 30, 2006, 08:22:53 AM

Now that's rich..................

Well it's Saturday morning here in the Carlisle house and I have a progress picture to post.....I'll be using the kit landing gear after all. And I'm afraid I'm going to have to cover this one with tissue, so for sure it won't be ready to go by Monday.
On the sunny side though- look how big that wing is. I'm sure this thing will loop with a Golden Bee on it's nose.

Ray do you think yellow would be a good color choice?? BUT....do you think it would fly if it was white and blue?

Only if you put some stars on it. If you have any left. And maybe some red somewhere.

--Ray

frank carlisle · « **Reply #49 on:** December 30, 2006, 02:56:55 PM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on December 30, 2006, 02:29:10 PM

Only if you put some stars on it. If you have any left. And maybe some red somewhere.

--Ray

I just checked the box the stars came in and there's only one little one left and one of its' legs (arm?) is missing. I guess I'm going to have to stick with yellow. Luckily I still have plenty of that!! Let's seee............yellow and blue?....yellow and red?....yellow and black?.......hmmmmm.............................................