Author Topic: Finishing the former Toad (Read 11260 times)

Randy Powell · « **on:** February 06, 2011, 09:00:26 PM »

OK, I've finally gotten to the point of starting the finish. I spent a ton of time this weekend prepping the thing to start the finish. A lot of sanding, fitting, making paint jigs and such, but finally started the process tonight with the first of clear on the airframe. One coat of unthinned clear so far, but I'll take some pics before covering.

A side note: I decided to just leave the canopy. The problem has either gotten better or I over-reacted to the initial problem but whatever, I decided to leave it. I'll probably kick myself later but there it is.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2011, 06:54:50 PM »

Randy,

How much of a finishing budget do you have with the "toad"

wwwarbird · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2011, 07:51:24 PM »

Hmm, "former" Toad before flying it? Must be getting a good feeling about it, that's good.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2011, 08:07:30 PM »

Matt,

About 10oz or so. 7 would be better but that's probably dreaming with the scheme I'm planning. At least if I want to keep it to 54oz or so. But I'll take anything under 60oz.

Wayne,

Yea, the all up weight prior to finish, ready to fly didn't look to bad. I, of course, wish it was less. but it's in the ballpark.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2011, 09:48:58 PM »

OK, I spent about 4 hours sanding the airframe to level out the first three coats of clear. I'll start covering tomorrow.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:01:15 AM »

Good luck with her Randy.. It can be a good time or a hectic time, depending on where you are..

Randy Powell · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2011, 09:46:00 AM »

Well, the wings are covered (still need to do the wing tips) and the stab. I got involved in some other stuff this weekend and wasn't able to spend as much time as I'd hoped.

One note: I had ordered some silkspan from Sig a few months back and was using this material. It's very different from the other stuff I have. Sort of off white and really nice stuff. Shrunk up very well and seem to have a bit more body that previous stuff. Mikey likes it.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2011, 11:30:36 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on February 14, 2011, 09:46:00 AM

One note: I had ordered some silkspan from Sig a few months back and was using this material. It's very different from the other stuff I have. Sort of off white and really nice stuff. Shrunk up very well and seem to have a bit more body that previous stuff. Mikey likes it.

I have found that I like Sigs silkspan much more than any others I've used. I use their medium for most of my work, it is great stuff and much less prone to what I call "pinholing" where those aggrevating little holes show up during the finishing stages.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2011, 09:54:32 AM »

Wayne,

Well, no work on the plane in the last two days. Power went out on Monday (wind storm) and we just got power back late last night. So hopefully, I'll get to work on it tonight.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:33:22 PM »

OK, all covered and two coats of 90/10 mixed clear (90% clear, 10% thinner - just enough to get it to flow). Hopefully, tomorrow I can sand things out and decide if it needs more clear or I can go to filler.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2011, 08:12:59 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on February 20, 2011, 08:33:22 PM

OK, all covered and two coats of 90/10 mixed clear (90% clear, 10% thinner - just enough to get it to flow). Hopefully, tomorrow I can sand things out and decide if it needs more clear or I can go to filler.

Randy,

Why so much clear? I've never used more than 50/50.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2011, 11:28:18 AM »

I'm guessing because it fills much quicker. As long as it still flows out nicely by the time it dries, it might be a better way to go. I've always used 50/50 too, but on the open bays it always takes a lot of coats to get it where I want it. I've been doing it that way so long that I just never considered a slightly thicker mixture. I think I'll try a little less thinner next time around.

PerttiMe · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2011, 11:40:35 AM »

Does the thinner mixture flow deeper into the wood, maybe even building up more weight?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2011, 01:08:38 PM »

I try to use as little filler as possible. Clear is pretty light (compared to filler). The last plane I used no filler, just clear. the all up weight of the finish (bare wood to top coat) was 6oz, so I'm not too concerned with weigh gain from clear.

The problem is, unthinned Certified dope (that I'm using at the moment) is like maple syrup. You've got to thin it a bit or it won't flow.

Edit

OK, so I sanded the thing a bit and decided it needs another coat of clear. But I decided to go ahead and get the fillets on first. I'll sand those tomorrow then hit it with another coat of clear then I can start sanding in earnest. That should be fun. The Zen of sanding

john e. holliday · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2011, 08:48:06 AM »

Quote from: PerttiMe on February 21, 2011, 11:40:35 AM

Does the thinner mixture flow deeper into the wood, maybe even building up more weight?

If I remember right right, Windy says to thin the first coats of clear dope half dope half thinner. He aloso puts on several coats before letting it dry. Also let dry for a full day before sanding. It works as that is what I am doing to the King Sweep.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2011, 10:06:12 AM »

Doc,

I'm sort of semi following Phil Granderson's technique. Minor variations, but largely what he does. It's worked pretty well over the past couple of planes. But it does take some leveling the clear.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2011, 10:14:05 PM »

Randy do you have any problems with shrinkage of wood with thinned dope? or Full strength?

Bill Little · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2011, 04:00:36 AM »

Ok, my friend, where's the pictures??

Bill

Randy Powell · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:31:10 AM »

PJ,

I'm using non-taunting butyrate dope from the wood up so no, shrinkage isn't much of a problem. I did use some full blast, high shrink Randolph's dope on the open bays just to insure a good, tight surface, but the rest and subsequent coats have been non-taunting.

Bill,

I shoot a couple of pics when I get the thing sanded.

Bill Little · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:32:51 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on February 23, 2011, 11:31:10 AM

PJ,

I'm using non-taunting butyrate dope from the wood up so no, shrinkage isn't much of a problem. I did use some full blast, high shrink Randolph's dope on the open bays just to insure a good, tight surface, but the rest and subsequent coats have been non-taunting.

Bill,

I shoot a couple of pics when I get the thing sanded.

Randy,

Looking forward to pics of the low rider.

You have convinced me to order a gallon of Randolph non-tautening butyrate clear! Like you, I use some high shrink on the first coats just on the open bays, but I am running out of Sig Lite Coat. You know me, I can't break the tinted non-tautening nitrate kick for the substrate and attaching paper. I AM going to cover just the open bays of my latest with SLC than paper over that. More puncture resistance and the very minor weight gain should be offset by a little less dope needed to fill the paper.

Bill

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:36:24 PM »

There is some good logic behind Phil~Randy's method. whatever thinner you put on the plane has to dry, the more thinner you use, the longer it takes for that thinner to evacuate the clear. The longer the thinner is in the clear, the more likely it is to shrink out, later.

Ultimatly, I hope to figure out this idea for using all catalyzed product on open bays,,

Randy Powell · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2011, 03:16:09 PM »

Mark,

...and when you get it to work, let me know. God knows I spent enough time on it.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2011, 08:21:41 PM »

Well, I sanded the fillets out and was sanding the rest of the for the next coats of clear when I realized that I had forgot to put the fillets on the rudders. Sigh...

So, I sanded the rest of the plane out preparing for the next coat of clear and then put on the fillets I forgot about. Hopefully, tomorrow I can sand out those fillets then get that coat on.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2011, 01:19:40 AM »

Sand, sand sand..

Bill Little · « **Reply #24 on:** February 27, 2011, 01:21:34 AM »

"Mr. Sandman........"

(I need Mr. Sandman to find my address again... no sleep at night, just naps when I can during the day now! LOL!! 3:20AM)

Matt Colan · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2011, 08:41:03 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on February 27, 2011, 01:21:34 AM

"Mr. Sandman........"

(I need Mr. Sandman to find my address again... no sleep at night, just naps when I can during the day now! LOL!! 3:20AM)

Bill, have you heard the song Enter Sandman by Metallica? The song is about bad dreams, so maybe Randy might start having bad dreams of how his plane might fall apart when he sands it

And I'm just entering this stage.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2011, 11:50:41 AM »

As noted, sanding is a Zen thing. Takes working on a spot till you're happy then moving on. Can't think of the whole plane, just one spot at a time.

It's off to the shop for me. Wheee!!!!!!

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2011, 11:54:44 PM »

And If you saw photo's of how I SAND my planes - Its like making love with the model.. dirty wet primer love

I like to feel her edges, caress her body, sand smooth and love her gaps and joins. run my hand up and down the length of her fin.. ..... - Whoops I've said to much.. did I mention getting it all over me also ?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #28 on:** February 28, 2011, 09:45:50 AM »

It's a messy job, but someone has to do it ....

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #29 on:** February 28, 2011, 10:18:46 PM »

Randy likes getting bits on his moustache'

Randy Powell · « **Reply #30 on:** March 01, 2011, 09:54:27 AM »

Hard to tell since it's going gray.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #31 on:** March 01, 2011, 11:58:33 AM »

Dont you use gray primer base maybe thats why ...

Youd be like that photo from the 80's.........

Randy Powell · « **Reply #32 on:** March 04, 2011, 11:51:13 AM »

Well, I'm about ready to shoot the base color (just need to finish sanding this weekend) and therein lies the rub. My test panels for what I was going to use look like doo-doo so it's back to the drawing board. I have a couple other ideas I'm going to shoot test panels for this weekend. Hope one works out.

Sigh...

Hey, I'll come up with something, I suppose.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #33 on:** March 05, 2011, 07:17:31 AM »

All the pains you guys go thru for a 20 point finish. I seen PJ's pic of the sanding job and know that Randy's grey is not from sanding. Not so many years ago a person was asked to do appearance judging at the NATS. When all was done, only one plane sat on front row. Only got 19.5 points. When asked about it he told the competitor that it was only worth 19.5 points and walked off. And I know both individuals that were involved.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #34 on:** March 05, 2011, 01:35:55 PM »

Doc,

It's not about the points. I've had 19 and one 20 point plane. Could care less about the points. It's about doing to best you can. Building the best plane possible for me. I'm usually pretty happy if I can finish a plane and be able to tell myself, yea, that's the best I could have done. Whether it's a good as someone else or it gets points or not really isn't the point to me. It's whether I did the best I could. If I'm happy with it, that's all that matters. Did I come up with the best I could do.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #35 on:** March 05, 2011, 06:43:11 PM »

OK, I'm a idiot. So, I go to do the tests for base color today. Shot some (undercoat) paint on a test panel. The plan was to shoot some transparent color over the base color. I mix up the transparent and shoot it. No discernible change. I shot maybe 6 coats before I started to see just a tiny bit of color. So, I'm stumped. Couldn't figure out what the problem was. I mixed it like always, about a half bottle (1 oz) of concentrate to about a 1/2 pint of clear. Just can't figure out what the problem is. I've never used this particular color before, but it should work fine. So, I pick up the bottle to look and it turns out that it's not candy concentrate but airbrush, ready to shoot paint.. Pre-thinned even. Great, either I ordered the wrong thing or they shipped the wrong thing. I'll sort that out later. No wonder it didn't work. Sheesh. Never even noticed. So, I come back in and order the right stuff. Good thing I just got the primer shot on and have a couple of days of sanding ahead.

Experience doesn't stop dumb.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #36 on:** March 05, 2011, 10:47:27 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on March 05, 2011, 01:35:55 PM

It's not about the points. I've had 19 and one 20 point plane. Could care less about the points. It's about doing to best you can. Building the best plane possible for me. I'm usually pretty happy if I can finish a plane and be able to tell myself, yea, that's the best I could have done. Whether it's a good as someone else or it gets points or not really isn't the point to me. It's whether I did the best I could. If I'm happy with it, that's all that matters. Did I come up with the best I could do.

Amen.

Bill Little · « **Reply #37 on:** March 05, 2011, 10:57:07 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on March 05, 2011, 06:43:11 PM

OK, I'm a idiot. So, I go to do the tests for base color today. Shot some (undercoat) paint on a test panel. The plan was to shoot some transparent color over the base color. I mix up the transparent and shoot it. No discernible change. I shot maybe 6 coats before I started to see just a tiny bit of color. So, I'm stumped. Couldn't figure out what the problem was. I mixed it like always, about a half bottle (1 oz) of concentrate to about a 1/2 pint of clear. Just can't figure out what the problem is. I've never used this particular color before, but it should work fine. So, I pick up the bottle to look and it turns out that it's not candy concentrate but airbrush, ready to shoot paint.. Pre-thinned even. Great, either I ordered the wrong thing or they shipped the wrong thing. I'll sort that out later. No wonder it didn't work. Sheesh. Never even noticed. So, I come back in and order the right stuff. Good thing I just got the primer shot on and have a couple of days of sanding ahead.

Experience doesn't stop dumb.

I feel your pain. Yeah, HOK now has some airbrush formulas that are "Candy" but don't need a basecoat. I have a couple bottles of the Apple Red for trim work. Looking forward to seeing how it works. Some kind of computer matching to get the "effect" to make it look like a candy paint, I guess.

I agree on finishing not being to get the maximum points. When I really try to do a top drawer level paint job, I am not trying to get maximum points, just trying to push my abilities, and see how nice it is to me. I really don't care how many points another person thinks it's worth, it's all subjective judging anyway. (plus we dropped AP all around her, so it doesn't matter how many points it's worth! LOL!!)

Bill

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #38 on:** March 06, 2011, 01:47:06 AM »

Hey Randy - I can top that..

A few planes ago - was preped and ready for the primer - Grabbed the can or white primer and went spray ... spray .. spray.. Let it dry and went to went sand it a few days later - and it didnt want to sand off as nicely as primer..

Funny how white paint and white primer look similar but sand differently.....

Experience doesnt stop blindness..

John Leidle · « **Reply #39 on:** March 06, 2011, 04:05:31 PM »

I did the same thing last year on a rack to hold my fishing poles instead of 3 coats of varnish it took 7 or so ., By the way I ordered my paint for my new plane Friday.
John

Randy Powell · « **Reply #40 on:** March 06, 2011, 07:25:39 PM »

Man, I'm getting old. Spent 4 hours sanding today and the fuse is about done. Wow. My arm is killing me, but it's coming out pretty well. Looks a bit like it has leprosy, but it seems pretty level. Probably 2 or 3 more sessions. When I finally get the sanding done, I'll shoot it with heavily thinned cleared to seal it up.

In the mean time, more sanding.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #41 on:** March 10, 2011, 10:32:01 PM »

And sanding and sanding and sanding... My elbow has had about enough for tonight. Besides, the Huskies are getting killed again. Man, is that disappointing.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #42 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:47:31 PM »

Ahh yes the joys of sanding. Not tooting - but Im lucky in the sense that I play alot of tennis competivly and golf - so my shoulders are fairly good at handeling a constant work load. Having said that - If i do a 7 hr sanding sessino it hurts the next day. Bit of protien powder and a massage - and good to go.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #43 on:** March 11, 2011, 08:23:25 PM »

...and the Zen part?

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #44 on:** March 11, 2011, 09:26:03 PM »

It's not about the points. I've had 19 and one 20 point plane. Could care less about the points. It's about doing to best you can. Building the best plane possible for me. I'm usually pretty happy if I can finish a plane and be able to tell myself, yea, that's the best I could have done. Whether it's a good as someone else or it gets points or not really isn't the point to me. It's whether I did the best I could. If I'm happy with it, that's all that matters.

I completely can relate to that - Its about doing the best that I can do - I am certainly my own worst critique - I can look at something and everyone around me can say " thats great " I look at it and say - I give it 80 out of 100.. I'm Very difficult to please. Thats why you try to do the best you can do - Be that getting advice from others to help with that purpose so be it..

I'd love to know Randy - are you ever happy with anything? I Know Im never pleased - I can be content.. even satisfied.. but pleased ? no.. Although Im pleased with how my 2 new ones are going..

Randy Powell · « **Reply #45 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:45:34 PM »

PJ,

Not really. I've said, well, that's the best I can do. But I've never said, that's right. maybe that's close. Right now I'm more worried about, it is light while looking presentable.

Unbelievably, the Huskies came back and won the game. Now it's half time against Oregon. They look good so far.

Go Huskies!

Bill Little · « **Reply #46 on:** March 11, 2011, 10:48:57 PM »

Hi Randy,

The "Huskies" play basketball??

Big Bear

Randy Powell · « **Reply #47 on:** March 12, 2011, 12:55:25 PM »

Bill,

Yea.

In the PAC 10 tournament finals today. NCAA tourney next week.

Edit

Well, the Huskies downed Arizona and won the Pac-10 tournament. And I'm still sanding. Thought I'd get down today, but not even close. Maybe 2/3 of the way. More sanding tomorrow.

Bill Little · « **Reply #48 on:** March 13, 2011, 12:49:54 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on March 12, 2011, 12:55:25 PM

Bill,

Yea.

In the PAC 10 tournament finals today. NCAA tourney next week.

Edit

Well, the Huskies downed Arizona and won the Pac-10 tournament. And I'm still sanding. Thought I'd get down today, but not even close. Maybe 2/3 of the way. More sanding tomorrow.

Well, they will probably have smooth sailing until they run into a ACC team in the tournament........

ACC Tournament finals: Carolina and Duke. Strange but they have only met 9 times in all the years of the ACC Tournament Finals. Carolina is strangely mimicking the Wolfpack's run for the National title under Jimmy Valvano. The "Carolina Cardiac Kids" they have been down by as much as 19 at the half in the tournament so far, and had to pull it out in OT against Clemson yesterday........ Aaron has to listen to all the games when he's here so the radio was on the game yesterday in the basement (moved the TV cable to the bedroom for Gail's recovery).

Hard to understand basketball being played outside of "Tobacco Road"! LOL!!!!
(j/k)

Big Bear

Randy Powell · « **Reply #49 on:** March 13, 2011, 02:45:40 PM »

Bill,

We'll see. Both Arizona and Washington are tough teams. For a wonder, the Pac-10 officials actually let them play and weren't call much ticky-tack stuff. It was a brawl under the basket. Washington is the only team in the country with 4 guys that are shooting over 40% from behind the arc (and one at 33%). And are the second highest scoring team in the nation. I have no illusion that they are going to the final four, but they maybe the elite eight. That's been their goal this year. They've been to several sweet sixteens. Be fun to watch anyway.

Author Topic: Finishing the former Toad (Read 11260 times)

John Leidle