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Building Tips and technical articles. => Paint and finishing => Topic started by: Randy Powell on February 06, 2011, 09:00:26 PM
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OK, I've finally gotten to the point of starting the finish. I spent a ton of time this weekend prepping the thing to start the finish. A lot of sanding, fitting, making paint jigs and such, but finally started the process tonight with the first of clear on the airframe. One coat of unthinned clear so far, but I'll take some pics before covering.
A side note: I decided to just leave the canopy. The problem has either gotten better or I over-reacted to the initial problem but whatever, I decided to leave it. I'll probably kick myself later but there it is.
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Randy,
How much of a finishing budget do you have with the "toad"
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Hmm, "former" Toad before flying it? Must be getting a good feeling about it, that's good.
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Matt,
About 10oz or so. 7 would be better but that's probably dreaming with the scheme I'm planning. At least if I want to keep it to 54oz or so. But I'll take anything under 60oz.
Wayne,
Yea, the all up weight prior to finish, ready to fly didn't look to bad. I, of course, wish it was less. but it's in the ballpark.
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OK, I spent about 4 hours sanding the airframe to level out the first three coats of clear. I'll start covering tomorrow.
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Good luck with her Randy.. It can be a good time or a hectic time, depending on where you are..
D>K
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Well, the wings are covered (still need to do the wing tips) and the stab. I got involved in some other stuff this weekend and wasn't able to spend as much time as I'd hoped.
One note: I had ordered some silkspan from Sig a few months back and was using this material. It's very different from the other stuff I have. Sort of off white and really nice stuff. Shrunk up very well and seem to have a bit more body that previous stuff. Mikey likes it.
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One note: I had ordered some silkspan from Sig a few months back and was using this material. It's very different from the other stuff I have. Sort of off white and really nice stuff. Shrunk up very well and seem to have a bit more body that previous stuff. Mikey likes it.
I have found that I like Sigs silkspan much more than any others I've used. I use their medium for most of my work, it is great stuff and much less prone to what I call "pinholing" where those aggrevating little holes show up during the finishing stages.
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Wayne,
Well, no work on the plane in the last two days. Power went out on Monday (wind storm) and we just got power back late last night. So hopefully, I'll get to work on it tonight.
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OK, all covered and two coats of 90/10 mixed clear (90% clear, 10% thinner - just enough to get it to flow). Hopefully, tomorrow I can sand things out and decide if it needs more clear or I can go to filler.
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OK, all covered and two coats of 90/10 mixed clear (90% clear, 10% thinner - just enough to get it to flow). Hopefully, tomorrow I can sand things out and decide if it needs more clear or I can go to filler.
Randy,
Why so much clear? I've never used more than 50/50.
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I'm guessing because it fills much quicker. As long as it still flows out nicely by the time it dries, it might be a better way to go. I've always used 50/50 too, but on the open bays it always takes a lot of coats to get it where I want it. I've been doing it that way so long that I just never considered a slightly thicker mixture. I think I'll try a little less thinner next time around.
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Does the thinner mixture flow deeper into the wood, maybe even building up more weight?
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I try to use as little filler as possible. Clear is pretty light (compared to filler). The last plane I used no filler, just clear. the all up weight of the finish (bare wood to top coat) was 6oz, so I'm not too concerned with weigh gain from clear.
The problem is, unthinned Certified dope (that I'm using at the moment) is like maple syrup. You've got to thin it a bit or it won't flow.
Edit
OK, so I sanded the thing a bit and decided it needs another coat of clear. But I decided to go ahead and get the fillets on first. I'll sand those tomorrow then hit it with another coat of clear then I can start sanding in earnest. That should be fun. The Zen of sanding
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Does the thinner mixture flow deeper into the wood, maybe even building up more weight?
If I remember right right, Windy says to thin the first coats of clear dope half dope half thinner. He aloso puts on several coats before letting it dry. Also let dry for a full day before sanding. It works as that is what I am doing to the King Sweep. H^^
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Doc,
I'm sort of semi following Phil Granderson's technique. Minor variations, but largely what he does. It's worked pretty well over the past couple of planes. But it does take some leveling the clear.
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Randy do you have any problems with shrinkage of wood with thinned dope? or Full strength?
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Ok, my friend, where's the pictures?? ;D
Bill
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PJ,
I'm using non-taunting butyrate dope from the wood up so no, shrinkage isn't much of a problem. I did use some full blast, high shrink Randolph's dope on the open bays just to insure a good, tight surface, but the rest and subsequent coats have been non-taunting.
Bill,
I shoot a couple of pics when I get the thing sanded.
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PJ,
I'm using non-taunting butyrate dope from the wood up so no, shrinkage isn't much of a problem. I did use some full blast, high shrink Randolph's dope on the open bays just to insure a good, tight surface, but the rest and subsequent coats have been non-taunting.
Bill,
I shoot a couple of pics when I get the thing sanded.
Randy,
Looking forward to pics of the low rider. ;D
You have convinced me to order a gallon of Randolph non-tautening butyrate clear! Like you, I use some high shrink on the first coats just on the open bays, but I am running out of Sig Lite Coat. You know me, I can't break the tinted non-tautening nitrate kick for the substrate and attaching paper. I AM going to cover just the open bays of my latest with SLC than paper over that. More puncture resistance and the very minor weight gain should be offset by a little less dope needed to fill the paper.
Bill
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There is some good logic behind Phil~Randy's method. whatever thinner you put on the plane has to dry, the more thinner you use, the longer it takes for that thinner to evacuate the clear. The longer the thinner is in the clear, the more likely it is to shrink out, later.
Ultimatly, I hope to figure out this idea for using all catalyzed product on open bays,,
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Mark,
...and when you get it to work, let me know. God knows I spent enough time on it.
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Well, I sanded the fillets out and was sanding the rest of the for the next coats of clear when I realized that I had forgot to put the fillets on the rudders. Sigh...
So, I sanded the rest of the plane out preparing for the next coat of clear and then put on the fillets I forgot about. Hopefully, tomorrow I can sand out those fillets then get that coat on.
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Sand, sand sand..
~>
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"Mr. Sandman........" LL~ LL~
(I need Mr. Sandman to find my address again... no sleep at night, just naps when I can during the day now! LOL!! 3:20AM) Z@@ZZZ LL~
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"Mr. Sandman........" LL~ LL~
(I need Mr. Sandman to find my address again... no sleep at night, just naps when I can during the day now! LOL!! 3:20AM) Z@@ZZZ LL~
Bill, have you heard the song Enter Sandman by Metallica? The song is about bad dreams, so maybe Randy might start having bad dreams of how his plane might fall apart when he sands it LL~
And I'm just entering this stage. H^^
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As noted, sanding is a Zen thing. Takes working on a spot till you're happy then moving on. Can't think of the whole plane, just one spot at a time.
It's off to the shop for me. Wheee!!!!!!
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And If you saw photo's of how I SAND my planes - Its like making love with the model.. dirty wet primer love :)
I like to feel her edges, caress her body, sand smooth and love her gaps and joins. run my hand up and down the length of her fin.. ..... - Whoops I've said to much.. did I mention getting it all over me also ?
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It's a messy job, but someone has to do it ....
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Randy likes getting bits on his moustache' y1
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Hard to tell since it's going gray. ;D
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Dont you use gray primer base maybe thats why ... :P
Youd be like that photo from the 80's.........
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Well, I'm about ready to shoot the base color (just need to finish sanding this weekend) and therein lies the rub. My test panels for what I was going to use look like doo-doo so it's back to the drawing board. I have a couple other ideas I'm going to shoot test panels for this weekend. Hope one works out.
Sigh...
Hey, I'll come up with something, I suppose.
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All the pains you guys go thru for a 20 point finish. I seen PJ's pic of the sanding job and know that Randy's grey is not from sanding. Not so many years ago a person was asked to do appearance judging at the NATS. When all was done, only one plane sat on front row. Only got 19.5 points. When asked about it he told the competitor that it was only worth 19.5 points and walked off. And I know both individuals that were involved. LL~ LL~
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Doc,
It's not about the points. I've had 19 and one 20 point plane. Could care less about the points. It's about doing to best you can. Building the best plane possible for me. I'm usually pretty happy if I can finish a plane and be able to tell myself, yea, that's the best I could have done. Whether it's a good as someone else or it gets points or not really isn't the point to me. It's whether I did the best I could. If I'm happy with it, that's all that matters. Did I come up with the best I could do.
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OK, I'm a idiot. So, I go to do the tests for base color today. Shot some (undercoat) paint on a test panel. The plan was to shoot some transparent color over the base color. I mix up the transparent and shoot it. No discernible change. I shot maybe 6 coats before I started to see just a tiny bit of color. So, I'm stumped. Couldn't figure out what the problem was. I mixed it like always, about a half bottle (1 oz) of concentrate to about a 1/2 pint of clear. Just can't figure out what the problem is. I've never used this particular color before, but it should work fine. So, I pick up the bottle to look and it turns out that it's not candy concentrate but airbrush, ready to shoot paint.. Pre-thinned even. Great, either I ordered the wrong thing or they shipped the wrong thing. I'll sort that out later. No wonder it didn't work. Sheesh. Never even noticed. So, I come back in and order the right stuff. Good thing I just got the primer shot on and have a couple of days of sanding ahead.
Experience doesn't stop dumb.
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It's not about the points. I've had 19 and one 20 point plane. Could care less about the points. It's about doing to best you can. Building the best plane possible for me. I'm usually pretty happy if I can finish a plane and be able to tell myself, yea, that's the best I could have done. Whether it's a good as someone else or it gets points or not really isn't the point to me. It's whether I did the best I could. If I'm happy with it, that's all that matters. Did I come up with the best I could do.
Amen. D>K
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OK, I'm a idiot. So, I go to do the tests for base color today. Shot some (undercoat) paint on a test panel. The plan was to shoot some transparent color over the base color. I mix up the transparent and shoot it. No discernible change. I shot maybe 6 coats before I started to see just a tiny bit of color. So, I'm stumped. Couldn't figure out what the problem was. I mixed it like always, about a half bottle (1 oz) of concentrate to about a 1/2 pint of clear. Just can't figure out what the problem is. I've never used this particular color before, but it should work fine. So, I pick up the bottle to look and it turns out that it's not candy concentrate but airbrush, ready to shoot paint.. Pre-thinned even. Great, either I ordered the wrong thing or they shipped the wrong thing. I'll sort that out later. No wonder it didn't work. Sheesh. Never even noticed. So, I come back in and order the right stuff. Good thing I just got the primer shot on and have a couple of days of sanding ahead.
Experience doesn't stop dumb.
LL~ LL~ I feel your pain. Yeah, HOK now has some airbrush formulas that are "Candy" but don't need a basecoat. I have a couple bottles of the Apple Red for trim work. Looking forward to seeing how it works. Some kind of computer matching to get the "effect" to make it look like a candy paint, I guess.
I agree on finishing not being to get the maximum points. When I really try to do a top drawer level paint job, I am not trying to get maximum points, just trying to push my abilities, and see how nice it is to me. I really don't care how many points another person thinks it's worth, it's all subjective judging anyway. (plus we dropped AP all around her, so it doesn't matter how many points it's worth! LOL!!)
Bill
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Hey Randy - I can top that..
A few planes ago - was preped and ready for the primer - Grabbed the can or white primer and went spray ... spray .. spray.. Let it dry and went to went sand it a few days later - and it didnt want to sand off as nicely as primer..
Funny how white paint and white primer look similar but sand differently..... ~>
Experience doesnt stop blindness..
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I did the same thing last year on a rack to hold my fishing poles instead of 3 coats of varnish it took 7 or so ., By the way I ordered my paint for my new plane Friday.
John
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Man, I'm getting old. Spent 4 hours sanding today and the fuse is about done. Wow. My arm is killing me, but it's coming out pretty well. Looks a bit like it has leprosy, but it seems pretty level. Probably 2 or 3 more sessions. When I finally get the sanding done, I'll shoot it with heavily thinned cleared to seal it up.
In the mean time, more sanding.
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And sanding and sanding and sanding... My elbow has had about enough for tonight. Besides, the Huskies are getting killed again. Man, is that disappointing.
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Ahh yes the joys of sanding. Not tooting - but Im lucky in the sense that I play alot of tennis competivly and golf - so my shoulders are fairly good at handeling a constant work load. Having said that - If i do a 7 hr sanding sessino it hurts the next day. Bit of protien powder and a massage - and good to go.
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...and the Zen part?
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It's not about the points. I've had 19 and one 20 point plane. Could care less about the points. It's about doing to best you can. Building the best plane possible for me. I'm usually pretty happy if I can finish a plane and be able to tell myself, yea, that's the best I could have done. Whether it's a good as someone else or it gets points or not really isn't the point to me. It's whether I did the best I could. If I'm happy with it, that's all that matters.
I completely can relate to that - Its about doing the best that I can do - I am certainly my own worst critique - I can look at something and everyone around me can say " thats great " I look at it and say - I give it 80 out of 100.. I'm Very difficult to please. Thats why you try to do the best you can do - Be that getting advice from others to help with that purpose so be it..
I'd love to know Randy - are you ever happy with anything? I Know Im never pleased - I can be content.. even satisfied.. but pleased ? no.. Although Im pleased with how my 2 new ones are going..
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PJ,
Not really. I've said, well, that's the best I can do. But I've never said, that's right. maybe that's close. Right now I'm more worried about, it is light while looking presentable.
Unbelievably, the Huskies came back and won the game. Now it's half time against Oregon. They look good so far.
Go Huskies!
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Hi Randy,
The "Huskies" play basketball?? S?P
Big Bear
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Bill,
Yea.
In the PAC 10 tournament finals today. NCAA tourney next week.
Edit
Well, the Huskies downed Arizona and won the Pac-10 tournament. And I'm still sanding. Thought I'd get down today, but not even close. Maybe 2/3 of the way. More sanding tomorrow.
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Bill,
Yea.
In the PAC 10 tournament finals today. NCAA tourney next week.
Edit
Well, the Huskies downed Arizona and won the Pac-10 tournament. And I'm still sanding. Thought I'd get down today, but not even close. Maybe 2/3 of the way. More sanding tomorrow.
Well, they will probably have smooth sailing until they run into a ACC team in the tournament........ LL~ LL~
ACC Tournament finals: Carolina and Duke. Strange but they have only met 9 times in all the years of the ACC Tournament Finals. Carolina is strangely mimicking the Wolfpack's run for the National title under Jimmy Valvano. The "Carolina Cardiac Kids" they have been down by as much as 19 at the half in the tournament so far, and had to pull it out in OT against Clemson yesterday........ Aaron has to listen to all the games when he's here so the radio was on the game yesterday in the basement (moved the TV cable to the bedroom for Gail's recovery).
Hard to understand basketball being played outside of "Tobacco Road"! LOL!!!!
(j/k)
Big Bear
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Bill,
We'll see. Both Arizona and Washington are tough teams. For a wonder, the Pac-10 officials actually let them play and weren't call much ticky-tack stuff. It was a brawl under the basket. Washington is the only team in the country with 4 guys that are shooting over 40% from behind the arc (and one at 33%). And are the second highest scoring team in the nation. I have no illusion that they are going to the final four, but they maybe the elite eight. That's been their goal this year. They've been to several sweet sixteens. Be fun to watch anyway.
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I really hate to stir a pot, but you guys might as well get ready to watch the Buckeyes in the finals!
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Will,
Yea, that's likely. Even if UW wins the first game against Georgia (pretty good chance), the second round they get to play UNC. Joy! But then, I didn't think they were going to beat Washington State in the first round of the Pac-10 tourney. Then I didn't think they were going to beat Oregon. Then I didn't think they were going to be able to last against a very physical Arizona. But they did.
Well, the main airframe is sanded. 220 then 320 then 400. Ready for sealer. Next I have to sand the pieces parts. That should go fairly fast but right now, I feel like I need Tommy John surgery. Now I'm going to go off and get to know my pal Advil.
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Hi Randy,
Go take care of those "pains". ;D Getting older ain't for sissies. I think I have staved off buying a new compressor because I don't want to sand to get them ready for paint! LOL!! That will pass........
Last "little" bit on B-ball. Carolina and Duke are down this year. Carolina is all young'uns!
Bill
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Bill,
The only saving grace with this plane is the initial coat of paint is metallic flake silver. Covers really well in one light coat. Less paint. ;D
Yea, the Huskies have an experienced team and this year they have some bangers so we'll see. Weirder things have happened. But Roy's no slouch.
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Bill,
The only saving grace with this plane is the initial coat of paint is metallic flake silver. Covers really well in one light coat. Less paint. ;D
Yea, the Huskies have an experienced team and this year they have some bangers so we'll see. Weirder things have happened. But Roy's no slouch.
I can see where the metallic silver flake will cover easily. I really like the look of this bird!
yeah, I remember when Roy was a player for Dean at Carolina.......... LOL!! Us football players could pretty much wander into Carmichael anytime we wanted to. Saw Dean in "real" life! (and I though Bill Dooley could fire up the air..........) LOL!! Do remember being amazed at Charlie Scott picking quarters off the top of the back board. Michael wasn't the first guy at Carolina who could jump. ;D
Bill
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I think the thing I get most excited about come March madness is the fact that any team can make an unbelievable run and kick their way through the favored teams. I just hope the Buckeyes aren't victims of a team like that! It can happen, has before.
When I see NC and Duke "down", Bill, I remind myself who the coaches are! Ya never know what they might pull off.
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Will, this is the first year in quite awhile that UW actually has a team capable of getting to the Final Four. That's not to say they will. They are also one of the most inconsistent teams they've had in awhile. Just have to see what team shows up.
I'm still waiting for the paint I ordered to get here. Hope it shows up soon.
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I'm still waiting for the paint I ordered to get here. Hope it shows up soon.
Us too. ;D
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Wayne,
Yea, I ordered some HOK stuff from Summit Racing. Normally pretty good and no Hazmat fee. But I ordered 10 days ago and it says it's still enroute. Hopefully it shows soon.
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Wayne,
Yea, I ordered some HOK stuff from Summit Racing. Normally pretty good and no Hazmat fee. But I ordered 10 days ago and it says it's still enroute. Hopefully it shows soon.
HI Randy,
Ever order directly from HOK? They are not THAT far away (at least on the same "coast"! LOL!!). ???
Bill
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Bill,
I usually do but this last time they wanted like $50 for hazmat shipping fee. This on a $10 item plus $9 shipping. Ah, no. No thanks.
There actually is no HOK direct, as such. They do all their direct shipping through TCPGlobal. They are the ones that decided to skin you for fees.
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Bill,
I usually do but this last time they wanted like $50 for hazmat shipping fee. This on a $10 item plus $9 shipping. Ah, no. No thanks.
There actually is no HOK direct, as such. They do all their direct shipping through TCPGlobal. They are the ones that decided to skin you for fees.
OUCH! I have ordered from TCPGlobal before, but it's been while ago...... $50?? that's ridiculous....... wow......... :o
I am going to eventually use HOK Candy Tangerine as a base color. A real 1-1 car has been restored using that color to replica a '63 Galaxie that Tiny Lund drove at the '63 Southern 500. A model I built through research I had done over a 25 year, or so, period served as the stimulus for the project...... kinda "backwards". ;D
Bill
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Bill,
Make sure you pay attention to the various base colors that can go underneath the candy color. It's amazing the range you can get by varying the base color. I shot some Candy Apple Red over 4 different colors of silver and one of bronze and the colors varied from deep red to pink to orange. Actually, Candy Red over Bronze make a very slick orange.
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Bill,
Make sure you pay attention to the various base colors that can go underneath the candy color. It's amazing the range you can get by varying the base color. I shot some Candy Apple Red over 4 different colors of silver and one of bronze and the colors varied from deep red to pink to orange. Actually, Candy Red over Bronze make a very slick orange.
HI Randy,
I understand. y1 I only use gold, that's all under the Tangerine or Apple Red. And it was what was used as a base on the original car I referenced. ;D I remember all the candy apple red cars I saw "back in the day" used gold as a base, and I've never considered using anything else. It is my favorite color for model airplanes and cars! LOL!! But the Candy Tangerine comes in a close second. It doesn't really look real "orange" when applied over the gold. I don't really tend to use any other candy colors. Possibly blue, but it gets a silver base.
heck, as you and I know, the blocking coat (or primer) can cause a dramatic shift in the final shade or hue of metallics and even "solid" colors. I remember Herb Nab's son (he painted the #71 K&K NASCAR Chargers in the late '60s) telling me that he ran out of the light gray primer they used one night and he had to use red oxide instead. They used FoMoCo Mustang Poppy Red (or Competition Orange as it was also labeled). When he pushed the car out in the sun the next morning the car didn't look like the other one sitting out there. LL~
Bill
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Bill,
Yea, it depends on the transparency of the base color you're using. Shooting white or red or yellow, the primer color or whatever you have underneath can make a big difference. I shot a plane a few years ago with Ford School Bus Yellow. A nice orangey yellow color. I decided to use gold as a blocking coat. It made for an interesting base color, but not what I was expecting.
If you're base color is something like I'm going to use; basically a light metallic silver with some HOK ultra-fine flake added, it really doesn't matter what's underneath as there is a fairly large component of black in the silver color. Just depends on where you're trying to get.
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Hi RAndy,
If I'm really trying to get a true base color using a "solid" color like yellow or red, I use a blocking coat that is *almost* white. Enough gray added for coverage, but not to really tint the color.
Don't you just love spraying yellow over a gray or silver blocking coat? Always gives a nice puke green color.............. LOL!!!!!!!!
I did a Veco Tomahawk profile using Duiplicolor "Metalcast" spray cans. It is a test bed for OS .21FP BBTU engines. So what the heck! It is slightly heavier (of course maybe a dozen less coats of "red" might have made a difference) than I would have liked. I used the spray can gold base and the spray can red. If you use the silver base, it looks like anodized aluminum. Over the gold it is a true "Apple Red". It could have been much lighter and still had a good look to it, but it's a "test" bed after all. Flight performance is still very good! Of course, Aaron had to give me cause to repair the top of a wing panel and spot matching candy colors is never easy. ;D
I just wish I had some creativity left, my schemes are getting boring, even to me..........
Bill
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Yea, I painted a plane with your standard Ford Performance Red a couple of years ago. I wanted to get the actual bright red and not a tint due to undercoat. So I used a red oxide primer under the color. That would really well. Very bright, intense red. Gold under Yellow works pretty well, but gives it a somewhat metallic look regardless of the number of coats of yellow it seems. White seems to do better if a white primer is used rather than gray. The gray tends to dull an otherwise bright white.
I thought it was interesting that Pete Peterson, in doing the transparent yellow base color he likes, doesn't use yellow concentrate or dye in the clear. He uses HOK Lime Gold candy concentrate in clear. I guess over the balsa wood color, it turns it very bright yellow.
Edit
OK, the sanding is done and the sealer coat is on. Undercoat goes on tomorrow then the candy color. Cool.
Man I don't want to sand anymore.
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HI Randy,
I remember, years ago, the tip of putting a tiny bit of blue in the white to make it more "brilliant". Not enough to give it a blue tint, though. Seems to have been a reference to the old method of using "bluing" to whiten up dress shirts in the wash. ???
Can't remember if I ever tried it. ;D
Bill
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The problem with shooting silver (even cool custom metallic silver) is that ever flaw stands out like a searchlight. So, I'll wait a day or so and do some sanding out and touching it up. Sigh... I'd just let it go except the spots are pretty obvious. Oh well, just a bit more work.
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The problem with shooting silver (even cool custom metallic silver) is that ever flaw stands out like a searchlight. So, I'll wait a day or so and do some sanding out and touching it up. Sigh... I'd just let it go except the spots are pretty obvious. Oh well, just a bit more work.
Yep, that was Windy's rationale for using silver for his substrate/primer/blocking coat. You can definitely see every tiny flaw when you shoot silver on it. I have used silver like Windy, and I liked it for that reason, but didn't like it for the reason that lighter colors, the more "translucent" ones like yellow, red, etc., need so much to cover it. I didn't have any problem with the last one I did since I painted it black! LOL!! And of course, black shows EVERYTHING, also! ;D
Now I use very, very light gray for the blocking coat, and I use auto primer to fill the grain. Going to use zinc stearate (Randy's Aero) in clear for my filler on the Airon. Going to mix a to light blue from white and blue dope to match the original. Jim sent me some real noce color pictures of the plane when he was at the NATS.
My P-51B is getting Performance Red from Duplicolor (quarts of "Paint Shop" line) with either clear dope of urethane over it. Gotta buy a new compressor and order the paint masks for the lettering on the P-51 (Paul Mantz's #46). I'm back excited to work on models again. The long break because of Gail's surgery has me ready to go again! ;D
Bill
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Bill,
This wasn't a blocking coat, it was an undercoat. It's supposed to show through. ;D
But for all of that, it really only has a couple of spots that I'm going to fix. Upon closer inspection, some of the other stuff is less critical. This isn't going to be a perfect finish. I just spend too much time making sure that as much filler was off the thing as I could possible get and probably didn't leave enough in some of the low spots.
Interestingly, I learned something with this finish. I think in the future, I'm going to thin the clear a bit more and start using the spray gun immediately after covering. A lot of the final uneven-ness that, while largely sanded out, is only there because the thick clear wasn't able to flow out enough before it started drying. Have to think on this a bit.
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Hi Randy,
You could be onto something there. AS you know, thinner coats just means more time spent. But they will be "thinner" and will lay out "flatter". I can never get full strength dope to lay out nice, so I never (hardly ever! LOL!!) use clear dope full strength. And then it is only on bare wood to get it to fill quicker before applying the tissue. I think you can save weight by using almost no full strength dope. ???
Ah, a metallic basecoat for candy color. Should have caught that, sorry! LOL!!
Didn't you use gold once (a Cadillac color on the Shoestring?) for your filler, or "primer"?
Bill
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Bill,
Yea, I used Cadillac Gold as an undercoat for Screaming Yellow (a Ford color). Nice thing was, I was able to use just one coat of yellow over it. Bad thing was (I guess it was bad) was that the yellow had a distinct gold cast. Made it interesting.
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Well, after close inspection of the surface, there were actually a lot of small imperfections. Really just very minor low spots. Were this not metallic silver and some other color (except maybe black) and they would be pretty unnoticeable. So I made an executive decision. I broke out the primer and a very small brush and started hitting every little low spot, pin hole and imperfection I could find. I decided that I just could live with a bad finish. A mediocre finish? OK, I can live with that, but not a bad one. So I spent the 2 hours and hit every spot I could find. Tomorrow, I'll sand all those spots out and hit the areas again with an air brush. Once that dries then maybe I can use the tint on it.
I'm at that spot where I really want it to be done. That's the time to take a deep breath, step bad and regroup.
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Sounds like you are at the point that the plane needs to put up for a while and take a break. My memory is going as I can't remember if I was talking to someone at VSC or posting somewhere. When sanding and I think the plane is ready for the next coat, put it down and go get on the computor with a cup of hot coffee. Then go look at the plane. I have taken Sparky's advice in that I put on two coats of clear dope and let it sit for a day. Then sand and sand until I think it is ready for another coat of dope. Two more coats of dope and let sit for a day. When I thought it was getting a little sheen to it, I let it sit a day before sanding again. Finally after about 10 coats of clear, thinned 50/50, I put the poly-span on. Then it was the talc and dope until I thought it was ready for color. As Randy says, should have put a coat of color sealer on. As I brushed the color I stared seeing the bad spots. But, from 10 feet you can't see them. Now I see where the old timer that helped me years and years ago stated, "It takes longer to do a decent finish than it does to build the plane". H^^
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Well, not much work this weekend yet. Doing the taxes. Yikes! Hope to finish soon so I can get out to the shop.
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OK, back to the plane. I noted my trials in trying to shoot a candy color. Man, I don't know why I do that. I think I'll leave candy colors to guys like Mark. Anyway, the good news is, I was finally able to find my base color and get it mixed. The cost was, well, let's just say steep and leave it at that. But I now have a can of paint so hopefully, I can finally shoot the base color on. That would be nice. I may post a pre-paint pic of the rather leprous appearance as it looks at the moment. Candling seems to indicate that I have a much better base this time. Guess we'll see.
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So, after inspection, I decided to pull the canopy and rework the cockpit. Here's a picture. The new canopy is died and ready and the new cockpit paint is now drying. I think it's better.
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Hey, that's a cool looking camoflage job..
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What? Did you forget the tuck and roll? ;D
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Wayne,
No tuck and roll, but a cool custom paint job. Man, I hated cutting the canopy off, but I think it's going to be better.
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I think I would clear it,, it could set a new precident for "style",,
Rat Rod style,, and think how light it would be!
seriously, I can feel your pain with the canopy, but I agree, it was the right choice given the circumstances. Have fun with the color,, now if the wind would die down for a bit, I may go do some flying my darnself!
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Can we see a pic of the new cockpit?
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Wayne,
It's, ah, minimalist. But pretty slick overall. I shot the surface the same color that the base color is going to be. Man, I REALLY like that color. The actual cockpit is has a pilot, some gauges and pearl black paint. That's about it. I'd post a pic, but I already glued the canopy on and the fillet is now drying. Once it's dry, I can tape the canopy back off and get ready to blend the fillet and hopefully get some filler on it tonight. Man, what a pain, but it looks a lot better.
I'll shoot a picture of the cockpit with canopy after I get the fillet ground down.
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Sweet! Nice to hear things are back on track. y1
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Wayne,
OK, I think I'm ready for base color again. New canopy is slick. I plan to shoot a thin coat of color tonight and see what I have.
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How did you dye the canopy? I've tried various substances to tint a canopy but none seen to work very well!
Cheers
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Randy, your determination put's me to shame... I'd a said screw it, it will have to be good enough and moved on to my next build before going back to stripping it down and starting over, never mind removing the canopy too!
I guess that's why your stuff is always top notch. Hat's off to you and your new, new paint job. I hope it come's out as good as you envision this time, you certainly have earned it!
Keep us posted.
EricV
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Neville,
Depends on what the canopy is made out of. Some canopy material won't accept dye. For those, I've used candy concentrate colors and shot the inside of the canopy with it until I got the tint I wanted. For canopies like the one I used for this plane (made of PET not PETG), I used Rit material dye in warm (maybe 100°) water. Let it soak for about 20 minutes checking the color every 5 minutes or so until I either get the tint I want or the canopy gets as dark as it's going to get. In this case, I got what I was looking for but that's probably because I was using a dark brown dye. I did a canopy that was dyed yellow and had the sucker soaking for almost an hour and still didn't really get it as dark as I wanted.
One thing to look out for, though. Don't get the water too hot or PET will start to curl up. Hotter doesn't really help all that much anyway. Warm will do it. Say 95°F to 110°F.
Eric,
Yea, I know what you mean. But truth is, I just couldn't stomach a Candy Fungus Green plane. LL~
I probably would have put up with the surface flaws if the color had been OK. But the combination was just too much. So I figured that hey, sanding it down will kill two birds with one stone. I think I took a picture of the original color. I'll have to post it and you'll see what I mean. So by the time I got to that point I thought, well, I've done all this work to get a decent surface, I really can't put up with the substandard canopy and cockpit. The surface of the fuse under the canopy just had too many flaws, the color wasn't going to work with the new base color and I had that fog spot on the inside of the canopy, though considering the theme of the plane, smoke in the canopy probably wouldn't have been noticed.
So, now it's all prettified and ready for base color. There are a couple of spots that I'm concerned about but I'll have to see what it looks like after I shoot color. I plan to shoot a thin coat of base color and let it dry for a day then inspect. Hopefully, I can just go ahead and shoot a medium coat of color after that. If those couple of spots on the fuse I'm worried about end up sucking bad, then I'll see what I can do about fixing those then reshoot the area thinly again then go with the final color coat.
Man, when you get to the point where you're running your finger over the area over and over and you can't decide if it's a problem or not, you really need to just give up and shoot paint.
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Randy,
Your comment on the candy fungus green color reminded me of Steve Wooley telling us his original Argus was "pond-slime green". LL~ LL~
Sounds like you're getting some place after all the hard work and many difficult decisions, hang tough!
Will
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Will,
At least the base color I now have is a single stage deal. What I shoot is what I'll get. That's something.
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I definitely embrace that concept!! The last candy color I tried ended not fuel proof over 5% and I really paid for it!! It was the first one I did without tiger stripes on the first coat, too.
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Will,
One of the problems with candy colors is, the tint and tone you get is largely regulated by the depth of the paint. So if you want a darker or richer coloring, you have to go more coats. It's easy to get 5-6-7 or more coats of candy over the base before you get what you want and alleviate any tendency to tiger stripe. That's just a bad thing.
I know Pete Peterson uses candy colors over balsa (no base color) to get that dyed silkspan look. He uses Polyspan and many coats of clear and many coats of candy. But no filler coat and no base coat so you can sort of make up for the number of layers you are using to get the tint and depth you want with the absence of filler or base color. Even so, you have to be careful or you'll end up with a beautiful lead sled. That was part of my reason for deciding to just start over. The surface wasn't all that great coupled with a bad color and worse many coats of candy trying to mitigate the color. The fungus green was bad enough. When I tried to shoot a coat of red candy over the top to get the tint to shift, I ended up with candy sewage plant brown. To top it off, I'd put most of 7oz of paint on the thing. Yea, that's not working.
But hey, whatever pain was suffered along the way, I'm back to a good spot so no worries.
Edit
WEll, I shot the first coat. Sure wish I would have went lighter on it. Oh well, more sanding.
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I ended up with candy sewage plant brown. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
I never thought of the candy over bare balsa trick - neat concept! I seriously may try that over a maple guitar just for the different look! Might be easier than the aniline dyes I use.
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Will,
It will hold up better. The stuff sure doesn't fade in the sun like aniline dyes do. Cool colors, too.
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Thanks Randy, you just expanded my standard line of colors for my clients!!!!! This is going to be FUN!!!
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You build guitars for a job, Will? me too!
I use acid cat lacquer on guitars and models and NGR stains mixed into the lacquer for candy colours.
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Yea, but you're in Auckland. ;D
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SOMETIME THIS WEEK I'LL PM YOU FOR SOME GUITAR BUILDERS GOSSIP!!!! I LOVE TO EXCHANGE TIPS!
www.crossovercustomguitars.com
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Yea, but you're in Auckland. ;D
If you mean that my location has less restrictions on sprayable products than yours, you'd probably be right.
My main reason for using acid-cat lacquer is that they seem much less harmful to the sprayer than other types. I'm an isocyanate free zone until I can get some much better facilities to work in.
I feel your pain on all these finishing dramas you're having. I've experienced that same on both guitars and models. Bronze-powder gold finishes and candy apple red remain my two hardest to do properly by a country mile!
And yet I still want to do a model in candy metallic blue... hopefully I can follow your lead and find a one-coat base in the right shade.
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SOMETIME THIS WEEK I'LL PM YOU FOR SOME GUITAR BUILDERS GOSSIP!!!! I LOVE TO EXCHANGE TIPS!
www.crossovercustomguitars.com
Got your email, Will. Talk soon.
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chuckle - the model I referred to that was not fuel proof over 5% was a candy blue! I have some traumatic memories of guys refusing to hold the beast!! HB~> ~^
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ash,
One of the problems with using candy paint on model planes is the weight. To do a proper candy finish, you have to lay down a base coat, usually some kind if pearl or flake. The courser the flake, the more the ultimate finish will give you that sparkle. This ain't light by itself. Then candy colors are largely determined by layering. Each coat you shoot deepens and (usually) darkens the color. So to get that deep, classic candy apple red color, it's take a couple of coats of base (usually gold with at least medium flake in it) the anywhere from 3 to 8 coats of candy tint depending on what you're going for, then some sort of topcoat. Classically, you'd shoot maybe 8 to 10 coats of clear lacquer on top. The more clear lacquer you use, the deeper the shine.
Candy paints rely on depth to generate that enormously cool color. But it usually takes a lot of coats. A lot of coats. And that means more and more weight. The last plane I did a candy colored finish on weighted a ton. It was pretty, but not a very good flyer since I ended up putting 22oz of paint on the thing. Eventually, I'll strip it down and go with a simple paint job so that the plane will fly. But it's pretty.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
On another note (and back to the topic - ;D ), The base color is finally on the plane. Took 3 coats (2 light coats and one medium). Added a bit more weight than I would have liked. Should have used a blocking coat, but overall, it's not bad. Nice color, too. So I have a bit of clean up to do, couple of minor spots to fix (weirdly, all on the bottom - go figure), then I can hit those areas with the air brush then get to the fun part - the trim scheme. And I have absolutely no idea of what I'm am going to do there. I have the colors picked out, but no idea besides that. What fun!
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Man, taping and masking takes a lot of time. 4 hours into the first trim color and I'm not done yet. Sigh...
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Man, taping and masking takes a lot of time. 4 hours into the first trim color and I'm not done yet. Sigh...
Randy, when I masked out the trim for my plane (which I'm still doing by the way), I did the whole thing in sections. I painted the wings, then the tail surfaces and today the fuselage. It seems to make things easier during the whole taping process. Maybe you could try that. H^^
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Matt,
I do that sometimes. It sort of depends on the trim. In this case, because of how I'm doing it, I pretty much have to do the whole first color at the same time. But the follow up colors can probably be done in sections. This is sort of a minimalist approach, but the colors are close together. In the next color, because they will be crossing the original color, doing it in sections will probably be easier.
Doing trim schemes is always a case of finding the easiest process. Some guys do all the taping for all the colors at once, then just cover up what they don't want painted. That works if colors don't cross (well, sometimes it works) and if the trim colors are separated. If the trim colors are contiguous, then it doesn't really work. Planning a trim scheme is as much about process as is about design.
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Well, the first trim color is on. And all I can say is OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Easily the sexiest looking plane I've ever built. The weird part is, there was zero problem with the taping. No bleed, no overspray, no issues. The paint laid down well, good coverage with just a single coat. And besides, the color is perfect. About the best tonal match I've managed.
Maybe all that pain I went through with prep paid off. The surface isn't perfect, but it's not bad. Based on my own criteria, it's an 18 point plane. maybe 18.5.
Now, if I just keep from screwing it up. Pics when all the trim colors are all on. Hey, only 3 more to go.
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Well, the first trim color is on. And all I can say is OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Easily the sexiest looking plane I've ever built. The weird part is, there was zero problem with the taping. No bleed, no overspray, no issues. The paint laid down well, good coverage with just a single coat. And besides, the color is perfect. About the best tonal match I've managed.
Maybe all that paint I went through with prep paid off. The surface isn't perfect, but it's not bad. Based on my own criteria, it's an 18 point plane. maybe 18.5.
Now, if I just keep from screwing it up. Pics when all the trim colors are all on. Hey, only 3 more to go.
I have at least 10 spots with little bits of overspray on mine, and 4 or 5 small places where paint pulled up. What was the color Randy?
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Matt,
Well, I can tell you but I'm not sure how much it will help.
Base color is Yellow Jacket Metallic. The first trim color is Toreador Red Metallic. Next one is called Atlantic Metallic, the third will be a custom color I blended myself, but it's a sort of very dark charcoal metallic with some gold flake in it. I'm debating on using a color call Obsidian Metallic for accent.
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Been a while since we've seen some pics. ;D #^
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I've seen pics and it is indeed Sexy....
I dont think photos do it justice. I think i said " tidy and smooth "
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Yea, my camera went whack and the pictures I took are blurry and pretty dark compared to the actual unit. I'll have to mess with it. I'll take some pictures when I get all the trim colors on.
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Pictures, please. Just Photoshop in the other colors for now.
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Patience, Howard. I'm just taping off for the next color now (tough I decided to strip the tape back off and redo it.). ;D
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Randy,
sure missed you flying sunday!
as for the plane, and pictures,, they have a special name for females that do what you are doing here,, you ***** Tease,, LOL, I am sure its gonna be tight!
Did you hear about the Gee Bee yet?
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Mark,
Yea, I heard it's flown it's last flight. Happens. It's not like you didn't get your use out of it. ;D
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Ooooo!, I was sitting in a meeting this morning doodling while listening to a riveting speaker and got an idea. So, when I get home, I'll pull the tape I already laid down on the fuse and re-tape it. I had already planned to partially do that because I was unhappy with what I did. But now I can change it completely. What fun.
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Mark,
Yea, I heard it's flown it's last flight. Happens. It's not like you didn't get your use out of it. ;D
Yes, it certainly did pay its dues over the course of its lives. Was about three feet off the ground on the takeoff and the upline failed at the bellcrank. The saddest part is that with the Electrajet virtually flight worthy, it was to be the last time I flew her. I guess She knew her time was coming to an end and decided to go out in a blaze of glory,,
she is sadly missed,,
pardon my hijack on your thread, but here is her final resting pose,, ** as taps plays in the distance**
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Bummer about the Gee Bee. Just add the take apart hardware and you're ready for the World's! y1
(It's kharma Mark, another reason to not fly electric.) :## VD~
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Wayne,, Install take apart? but its already taken apart,, not sure about the put together part though. It just destroyed the center inch of the wing,, as in GONE to splinters,,
as for electric,, go ahead, say all you want,, I may have to make a trip just to trounce ya with my electrics dude!,, LOL,,
mw~
The real Karma is that had it been electric, I could have likely fixed it, NO fuel soaking with electrics,, this one has just a touch around the wing joint area,, which makes it kinda scarey to try a repair, besides, the old girl deserves a retirement party,, I am lopping off the tail and mounting it in the garage,, ( my real trophy room) lol,,
we now return you to Randy's thread subject,,
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Yep, I just couldn't resist tossing in a little 'lectric jab there Mark. ;D
I keep trying to imagine what Randy is gonna blow us away with for a paint design. Like usual I'm sure he's got something really cool up his sleeve.
I don't know what design style they called it, but I keep thinking of the 60's trend when over the base color they would use a single line of tape and mask off what looked like an endless maze of overlapping rectangles and squares all back and forth etc. Then shade or spray over that with another color, usually something translucent. Then they'd take the tape off to reveal the maze of lines going all over the place. Sometimes you'd see that and then they would even go back and fill in the shapes with all different colors of the rainbow. That extra step must have been when they were on the really good stuff. There are lot's of variations of that type of painting style. I used to see this on drag cars and choppers all the time in the late 60's and early 70's.
That would be like really far out man. 8)
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Wayne,
The general scheme I'm using used to be called Dragon Style back in the late 60s, early 70s. It's a series of stretched, vaguely triangular shapes the intersect and overlap. It's a pain to tape and get straight. Doing templates around curves is always problematic. I'm doing a fairly simplified version, but it should look interesting anyway. I'm about half done with the second color. Hopefully I can finish taping tonight and then get it masked off and shot. The last color I have some ideas for. We'll see what it looks like.
This plane is not perfect, but I'm happier with this finish than I've been with one in awhile. The last finish I did that I was this happy with was the Shoestring.
Hope to post pictures by the weekend.
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Third color's on. In a couple of hours I'll pull tape and see what I've got.
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...tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock... #^
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Yea, yea. One more color plus some trim stuff.
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OK, I pulled tape and have to admit, it looks pretty cool so far. I have an idea for the last color. We'll see how that comes out. If I go with the idea I have, the tape job is going to be very complicated, so it may take a bit.
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More like Finesse Pinstripping. I'm on my second roll of 3/32" tape and will need to stop by Lowe's to get some more low tack masking tape tomorrow. Sigh...
Weird. I posted this but it's under Will's name. (Randy)
Wonder why that is?
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Hmmmmm. Maybe I need to check out your credit card numbers? #^
That is weird. However, I had posted a smart remark about "Have you bought stock in 3M yet?" and maybe we clicked at the same time and the messages crossed swords? It's still strange! (But then, so am I.)
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OK, taping the last color is about half done. Had to take a break. I always just want it done about this point.
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I saw that 3M comment yesterday. Gone now.
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Used some Avery stuff I have to do some graphics. I probably should seal it with clear. Just about done taping. Man that is tough work. Oh well, more tomorrow and I can shoot paint.
Sigh....
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OK, the paints done. I just got the graphics done and just a bit of inking then the clear can go on.
About time and it doesn't look too bad. I'll shoot some pics after I get the graphics on.
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Cool! ;D
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This had better be good after all this teasing :D
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Depends on how you look at things I guess. I like it.
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I'd say if Randy likes it, it's gotta be good. y1
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Well, since ash feels teased, here's a teaser. Color looks a bit flat, but it's auto basecoat, so it's matte finish. It will be shinier later. Still needs ink and some detail stuff, but it's coming.
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YEPPERS,, IT OUGHTA WORK,
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TA-DAAAAA! Once again, great original, and tasteful, graphics! y1
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Ooooh. Looks like it might be worth the wait! :D
The drop shadow on the lettering is extra special.
PS, thanks for the hint of what's to come H^^
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Brother Randy, That trim and lettering looks really sharp! Here's to no more "trouble" with the finish! y1 It should be another "looker". ;D
Big Bear
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The base color really doesn't look like that in person. It's much brighter and much more yellow. I was trying to get an angle where the lights didn't wash it out, but it sort of dulled things. Oh well. A couple more night's of work and it should be ready for clear. We can hope.
Really, overall I'm fairly happy with it. The surface came out pretty well and the fits seem pretty good. Not the best, but good. I keep wanting to put more trim on, but my wife says no, it looks really good like it is, so I will probably resist the urge. The wheel pants and rudders are kinda busy, maybe that will make up for it.
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Yep, Randy, you're right - it's even more of a teaser now! faster, faster! (I'm with ash, the drop shadows are a real plus!)
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Well, since ash feels teased, here's a teaser. Color looks a bit flat, but it's auto basecoat, so it's matte finish. It will be shinier later. Still needs ink and some detail stuff, but it's coming.
BBBBEEEAAAAUUUUTTTTIIIFFFFUUUUULLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I've seen the whole model is looks slick as slick can be :)
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Thanks, PJ. I started on some ink last night, didn't like it and wiped it back off. Then started again. I keep vacillating on how much to do. Probably minimal. I really want to get the clear on before I leave on Monday, so it will have to get done soon.
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Randy, nice photo, just enough to keep my interest. Actually I love to see your work and always look forward to your post on any subject.
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Randy,
I simply am aghast at your lack of motivation, It is hard for me to fathom why you would choose to go on a silly vacation to far off lands when you are THIS close to finishing your new weapon, I guess its just you,, but really,
Priorities man,, priorities
Ok so maybe send it to me while your gone,, I can spray the clear and assemble it,, then I can get appearance points since I finished it LL~
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Thanks for the comments (except Mark, to him n1 ). It will be done soon enough. Maybe I'll leave the clear till I get back. Then the lacquer could really gas off.
I'm just happy that the plane is straight, isn't going to be too heavy and should fly fairly well.
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Looking good so far.
Yea, I was trying to figure out just what color the base is ??
How did you do the letter shadowing ?
PJ, does he get a private showing ?
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Allan,
The color is interesting. It's actually quite a bit yellower than it seems in the picture. Called Yellow Jacket Metallic.
PJ and I have been exchanging pictures of mistakes and remedies.
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Mutual mistakes and remedies.
Private showing.. heheh its a plane not a peep show :)
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PJ is bright enough not to post his screw-ups. I put mine out there for God and everyone to see. sigh...
Here's another view since I probably won't get it done before I leave.
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When I make one i'l post it for all to see :P Shhhh Randy :)
n~
See guys how sweet does it look? :) Amazing.. the colour will be FAR better in clear and in daylight. I knwo the colour and its not what you see here.
More of a bright irredesant gold.
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Very cool. y1
Are the round holes for Robart hinges?
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Yeah I see another simple paint job from the Randy. D>K Looking great young man. I can't imagine how much better it will be with the clear and polishing. H^^
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Wayne,
Yes, Robart Hinges. If you get the hole right, they work pretty well.
Hey doc, it is a simple paint scheme. the bottom is different.
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A great example, Randy, of how less can be more! Saweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. y1
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I finished up the minimal ink today. Mostly just completing some of the trim scheme and a line here and there. It's all about minimalism, I guess. I'm still torn about the unbalanced paint on the wing, but it seems OK. It's ready for clear (or as ready as it's going to get). Unfortunately, we aren't going to get any decent weather tomorrow, so the clear will have to wait until I get back. Sigh...
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Looks fine, Randy. Where do you think you're going?
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I finished up the minimal ink today. Mostly just completing some of the trim scheme and a line here and there. It's all about minimalism, I guess. I'm still torn about the unbalanced paint on the wing, but it seems OK. It's ready for clear (or as ready as it's going to get). Unfortunately, we aren't going to get any decent weather tomorrow, so the clear will have to wait until I get back. Sigh...
When it comes to trim and graphics, I'm more of a balanced fan. So I can see why you are torn.
What size Robart hinges do you use ? Looks like the TE of wing and stab are rounded over, same treatment for flap and elevator. Would like to see close up picture of hinge line detail when you get it together. You going to make the control surfaces removable ?
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Brother Randy,
That is a very sweet color trim scheme! I really like it and I like the "name". It should really "POP" with the clear applied and all rubbed out. y1
Might just have to "borrow" some of your basic ideas for paint on a new plane I am doing. ;D
Big Bear
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Howard,
I'm off with the inlaws, outlaws and and various relations for two weeks in the sun. We get back just in time to get in the car and go to Eugene. So this plane won't be making the trip. Maybe for the Stunt-A-Thon.
Allan,
It looks pretty good live. It will be different.
Bill,
Steal away. I'm just happy that it won't been too heavy, is straight and I like the overall design.
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I always wanted to do and unbalanced trim scheme, never had the guts! Fly on!
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Well, I won't be in the shop for two weeks, but this place has free WiFi. So I can read about flying. Hey, it's sunny and warm. That's more than I've have for many, many months.
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so did you sneak in the camera,, you know its still pretty cold here Randy,, maybe some pictures of the BEACH to warm us cold guys up?
oh, the Ejet is painted,, I had a 5 hour window sunday and just got it done,, it wont absorb water, so I guess thats good enough for now.
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Mark,
Beautiful day today, but I spent most of it with the vacation club guy. If it's a nice tomorrow, I'll take a few pics of the beach. 80 today with a nice trade blowing. I was actually hot for awhile. Been awhile since I felt that. And hey, this place has a bar by the pool. Mai Tai's are free at the bar. WhooHoo!!!
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Let me get this right..
Your on Holiday still posting?
I've got visions of you sneaking in a pair of flaps into your bag - buffing them whilst the wife sleeps. LL~
Surely you could have slipped in the compressor, airgun, clear and shot the hooligan in the lobby?
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PJ, you forgot that the Mai Tai's are free at the pool. Where's the icon with the icebag on the headbone? :P Steve
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Naw, never to excess. I took a bunch of pictures, but I'm using my wife's laptop and it doesn't have any decent picture processing. Now I found out that the camera has the ability to take pics at lower resolution so it's possible to just shoot, transfre pic and post. So I'll see what I can come up with today. Just rolled out of bed. The spousal unit isn't out of the bathroom yet.
By the way, PJ, I'm here with 5 other people sharing a 3 bedroom condo. They would complain about the paint fumes.
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Download IrfanView from TuCows. It's free and it's easy to use. Under 1,000kb for Winders, as I recall. There are different versions for various OS.
Weather has been wunnerful here since you left (Monday?). Not that we're drawing any conclusions or anything... LL~ Steve
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So, continuing to move completely off topic, here's a picture I took yesterday about 50 feet from where I'm sitting right now. No more pics. Nothing is more boring that someone else's vacation pictures. I will note that it's warmer here Steve. About 80 right now at about 9am. Nice trade blowing.
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No no.. couldnt' you rig up something to paint outside? y1
Im soo jealous of your holiday.. But mine is coming up soon...... Going somewhere warm and stress free. Muncie Nats :)
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Well, it's relatively stress free. I am with the spouse and outlaws after all. But it's not bad. The stress is the traveling part.
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Hey Randy - Quick update " We're back in the game "
y1
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Randy...It rained last night and today. You must be back... LL~ Steve
PS: We might be out of TMF, as of yesterday. :'(
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PJ,
Glad to hear that. I'll look forward to seeing the result.
Steve,
Nope, still here. Not my fault. Sorry to hear about TMF. Run out? And we still have TNA.
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Randy, you're on vacation.
However, glad to know that you're keeping your priorities straight and are still keeping up here. ;D
No excuses for not banging out the finished "Toad" immediately upon your return, you should be plenty rested. :## VD~
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If you are on Oahu, you need to call Henry Shun. I didn't get a chance to call him when I was there for a day. I would almost go back to the Big Island permantly if the wife would let me. Anyway, don't get too sun burned on the beach. H^^
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Hey Doc,
On Kaua'i. No control line here. Sigh.... Nice day today.
Wayne,
Well, It's ready for clear, but while here I had an idea....
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Looks like I may not be going to the Regionals this weekend. Just went to do my check in for the flight tomorrow and found out that our flight has been cancelled. We've been rebooked on a new flight that doesn't take off till Friday. So that puts us back sometime Saturday. Joy.
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man that blows Randy,, especially since it is a result of having to sit on a warm sandy beach,, watching sunsets,, drinking mai tais and fiddling with the little umbrella thingies,,
I am going to make it after all, it was not looking good there for a while
maybe you can squeek it in after all? who knows, we will be ready for you if you make it,
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Mark,
We got booked on a flight that leave at 1:25am on Saturday morning. We lucked out in that the condo we are staying at was available for another night, so we have a place to sleep tonight. But we will go to the airport tomorrow in the evening, sit around until the flight the fly into San Francisco and then looks like we will have as much as an 8 hour layover. We may be able to get on an earlier flight, but as it is, we won't get home till Saturday evening. I knew we were cutting it close as it was, but I don't think I'll be in any kind of shape to get home, pack the car and drive to Eugene in time to fly on Sunday. Guess we'll see how things play out.
Sigh....
Sometimes things just don't go well. I missed the Portland contest mostly due to car problems. My first contest of the season may be the Stunt-A-Thon.
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Don't you love those overnight flights and schedules. The wife and I had to be out of the condo we were in by 11AM and the car back to the rental by 6PM. Flight departure was 10:45PM. This was on the Big Island at Kona. I think I slept maybe an hour in that dark tube called an airplane. H^^
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Gee, thanks, Doc.
Here I am at the airport. Free WiFi at least. Plane doesn't leave for awhile, but we had to turn in the rental car. And just to top off the whole thing with a cherry, we talked to our house sitting and it seems the septic pump is busted. Back yard is currently flooded. So I get to fly in late tomorrow and pay a giant bill. Joy. Our house sitting is having the repair guy come tomorrow then will call with the bad news. Hopefully, it won't be too horrible.
What a way to finish a vacation. :P
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Sitting in the San Francisco airport. The septic system is fixed. Not cheap, but not too bad. About 450.00. Sigh... But at least it fixed. Be back home sooner than expected. We were able to get an earlier flight. Be home by about 11pm.
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Is that what they mean by s--t happens?
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OK, I'm finally back. It is, of course, raining. Cool.
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Less talk more clear. H^^
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Clear is on. It's not bad. Couple of spots may be a little thin. we'll see after it catalyzes.
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Hey Randy:
Every time I see one of those new Camaros with the electric neon Lime Green color I think of you.
Did you consider that for the Hooligan ?
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Allan,
As folks around here will tell you, I'm not a fan of green. Part of that is that most of our flying sites are surrounded by trees and most any green, even screaming lime green, tends to disappear. I have painted a few planes green in my time and it seems to be a bad luck color for me. Both had short lives (and the Novi I build flew really well but died an untimely death - I blame the color).
BTW, the color looks very cool with clear on and in the sun. Really bright, that's certain. I won't lose it against the backdrop.
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unless you fly it out here against the wheat fields,,, lol
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Even then.
Now, I just need to plod away at sanding and rubbing. That will take a bit. Hope to have it ready to fly for the Stunt-A-Thon. Or not. We'll see. There's no hurry.
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Randy,
hope it makes the stuntathon, it looks like there is an outside chance I may make Puyallup after all. My daughter needs a ride back to the west side and will pay gas ;)
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HI Randy,
This is one I am really looking forward to seeing in clear and assembled. The design is very interesting and the paint job really sounds cool. I am sitting here not able to raise my left upper arm over about 20* and wondering what I can do for now......... I can do simple things in the shop but the range of motion is getting less and less by the day. making it up and down the basement stairs is still possible, but takes a bit longer than previously! LOL!!
Get that puppy rubbed out and show us some pictures! ;D
Big Bear
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I'm pooped. No sanding tonight. ;D
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I'm pooped. No sanding tonight. ;D
That's what those "vacations" will do for you. ;D
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Is there a cure for Olditis?
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Is there a cure for Olditis?
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Yea, but you dont want to go there.
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When Dad was in the hospital, a knock at the door brought the response "Friend or enema?". Maybe that's Randy's reason for feeling "pooped". SH^ Steve
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Steve,
In my case, lack of sleep.
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"Is there a cure for Olditis?"
Yeah, it's called deaditis. As Allan said, ya doesn't wanna go there!
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OK, I got off my back side and did a bit tonight. About a quarter done. Looks good so far. Hope to have it done and start assembling by Sunday.
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We had an appointment to meet at Tacoma Narrows Airport, but it was already pretty windy when I got there at 8am, and had ramped up two notches by the time I made all the calls I could to abort the mission. Pete P. was to call Randy. So, Randy should have all of this AM to get his plane finished. My spousal unit wants me to spray weed killa on the driveway seams, but I think it's way too windy for that nonsense! LL~ Steve HB~>
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I got there about 9:20am. No one around. I burped both planes and thought I go ahead and fly. I got one flight on the profile to see if I finally have the engine problem worked out. But by the time I landed, the wind had picked up a lot. The wind sock was standing straight out and I packed up.Called Pete Peterson and he's the one that said, oh, by the way, we aren't coming. That's OK, I got in a flight anyway.
Back to rubbing...
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I'd just like to point out that hand rubbing sucks. I'm done with rubbing compound (nice, semi-shinny finish at this point) and am just starting on the finishing compound. then hand glaze and Maguire's final finish. Sheesh, my elbow and shoulder have about had it. thought I'd be done today, but it will take another night or two. Not the best finish on the planet, but about a 7.5 on a scale from 1 to 10. Weight looks to be a bit more than I had hoped for. I'm guessing the final weight will be about 60oz on 626 square inches. I can live with that.
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Why bother with killing yourself with hand rubbing??
I use a dual action buffer with variable speed control. Put a zero / low cut foam pad for polishing on it, 2,000 rpm, and use that, let the rubbing compound give you the cut - let the finishing compound give you the shine.
I always use my dual action buffer / polisher - years ago i use to use a wool pad - but too many times I burnt through the clear. I use VERY small amounts of clear these days. so I have to be very careful about going through.
Thats why I now use a zero cut foam pad. The same used to polish a final coat for a car.
Use this for all stages of the process.
* cutting compound
* polishing compound
* buffing compound
* finishing compound.
I then suppliment it with hand polishing with Carnauba Wax with soft microfiber cloth.
It takes me between 6 - 8 hrs for the entire process to buff out. - My shoudler still gets sore - and genearlly its a 2 person job
1 to hold the model
1 to buff with the machine.
its very important to use a DUAL ACTION buffer... not a regualar buffer. -
Stuff doing it by hand - I sand it flat by hand - 2000, then 2500, then 3000 .. That kills me. !
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Yea, I started off with 1500 and then 2000 sanding to get everything more or less flat. The last time I used a mechanical buffer, I tore up a flap. That's OK, hand rubbing is fine, just takes time. But I'm in no hurry.
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The last time I used "a mechanical buffer, I tore up a flap"
Whats wrong with that ? :)
The rate your going - you will tear a tendon !
There is a technique to doing the egdes - Low rpm - a steady hand - getting the buffer going in a certain direction - generally I stand behind and go out to in - then reverse it stand at the front and go in to out. so the buffer is always goign from inside the model line - to the outside. never the other way - or you can get it to grab and tear something.
Thats the adantage of a buffer - low rpm - soft foam pad - its pretty easy not - but you need 2 people. The buffer is a 2 hand job.
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Just the wings left then I start assembling the thing. Should be able to post a pic before the end of the week.
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We look forward to another classic Powell Production - the suspense ! KILLS ME
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Finished the rubbing last night. Still has a bit of orange peel in spots, but before I go back and sand those and re-rub them, I want to get the thing finished and fly it. I can always go back and do a better rubbing job if the plane is worth it. Got the hinges glued into the airframe last night too. So today, I clean that up and get the control surfaces glued on. Then it can be assembled and hopefully flown. I won't use it in the contest this weekend, preferring to actually get it in base trim first.
Hopefully pictures by Thursday or Friday.
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Good news Randy. Looking forward to finally seeing it in it's finished duds. CLP**
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Randy,
what time are you going to make Puyallup Saturday? It looks like I will be there, probably around 10 or 11, since I dont have a profile to fly,, sigh
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I will get there at 8am or so. I'm judging Advance on Sunday (at 9am) so look out.
I was going to glue the control surfaces on tonight but ran into a snag. Should be able to get that worked out tomorrow.
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I will get there at 8am or so. I'm judging Advance on Sunday (at 9am) so look out.
Crap,,, so should I bring you a coffee sunday morning, or just tell you where the hot barrista's are,, whatever I need to do ,, LOL, you are always so harsh on me,, its like you actually expect me to ,, well fly the pattern or something,, I mean really ,, sheesh,,,, n~ ~> n~
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Since profile isn't until about noon, I may stop off at the Narrows to get in a couple of flight to see if I have my engine problem worked out. May do that then slide over.
I promise not to expect Paul Walker when you fly, but I will expect Mark Scarborough. ;D
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which Mark Scarborough, the one with high bottoms, or the one with inconsistant bottoms,, just askin so I can be prepared,, LOL
Classic is at noon, and profile at 2 from what I read,, so since your an "expert" profile guy, and I am a lowly sportsman profile guy, how about I borrow the RM dellux for profile LL~ HB~>
the Electrajet isnt going to be ready in time ,,,,, again,,,,
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Mark,
If I can get it flying right (I've had a problem with engine run), then you are welcome to fly it. Really.
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I just called Mark, and he's scheduled to fly the KISS (F'Twister) on Saturday. You can fly it too, Randy! I better dig out some more spare props. It's going to be on grass, I think. Gots the big wheels a'ready. #^ Steve
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Hey Mark confuse all of them and just fly between the high and the lows. LL~ LL~ LL~ Now what did I just type? Anyway guys/gals have lots of fun and post many pictures. H^^
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Steve,
Whatever. I plan to scoot by TNF on the way to get a couple of flights in early to make sure it's all working now. Should be fine.
Back on topic, the control surfaces got glued on last night. Hope to get it put together tonight. Discovered that I never made retainers for the gear, so those will need to be done first. Not a big deal, less than an hour's work. Pics tonight, hopefully.
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Looking forward to the pictures, Randy. With what all has happened around home, I need some inspiration! ;D
Bill