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Author Topic: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!  (Read 1686 times)

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« on: April 05, 2022, 10:10:41 PM »
When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, thousands of nuclear arms were left in Ukraine.  The country was, in fact, the third-largest nuclear power in the world at the time.

In 1994, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize - based on an agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum, in which the U.S., the U.K. and Russia guaranteed the country's security.

Does the word integrity mean anything to you?  If you lived somewhere else, would the word of this spineless administration have any value?

Just asking for a friend ...

Dennis

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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2022, 12:13:24 AM »
When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, thousands of nuclear arms were left in Ukraine.  The country was, in fact, the third-largest nuclear power in the world at the time.

In 1994, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize - based on an agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum, in which the U.S., the U.K. and Russia guaranteed the country's security.

Does the word integrity mean anything to you?  If you lived somewhere else, would the word of this spineless administration have any value?

Just asking for a friend ...

Dennis
Do you seriously expect a Democrat to live up to a commitment?  Especially one made by another Democrat?

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Online Mike Alimov

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2022, 09:17:16 PM »
In 1994, Ukraine made the decision to completely denuclearize - based on an agreement known as the Budapest Memorandum, in which the U.S., the U.K. and Russia guaranteed the country's security.

Dennis

Let's get some facts straight.

According to the Budapest Memorandum, the U.S., the UK and Russia have agreed: (1) to respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders [in exchange for them giving up nuclear weapons], (2) refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine, (3-6) etc.  See full document for details.  Or simply look up "Budapest Memorandum" in Wikipedia.

So your statement that the US, UK and Russia "guaranteed the country's security" is misleading at least.  Which makes your later insinuation about the inaction of the US or its lack of integrity a moot point.  There is NO explicit document or agreement where the US has promised to defend Ukraine using military means (in the same way as, say, Article 5 of NATO).

The only signatory to the Budapest Memorandum which has breached it in a major way is Russia - first by annexing Crimea in 2014, then in 2018 by firing on Ukrainian ships in the Strait of Kerch, and finally by staging a full blown invasion in 2022.

So if you have some unkind words to say about this conflict, address them to Russia who started this aggression in the first place.  If, on the other hand, you are just looking for an opportunity to twist a couple of facts and take a cheap shot at your own country's government, just say so, it won't be the first time.

Now, I have donated to the Ukrainian refugee charity.  What have you done to help?

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2022, 03:31:25 AM »
Let's get some facts straight.

According to the Budapest Memorandum, the U.S., the UK and Russia have agreed: (1) to respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders [in exchange for them giving up nuclear weapons], (2) refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine, (3-6) etc.  See full document for details.  Or simply look up "Budapest Memorandum" in Wikipedia.

So your statement that the US, UK and Russia "guaranteed the country's security" is misleading at least.  Which makes your later insinuation about the inaction of the US or its lack of integrity a moot point.  There is NO explicit document or agreement where the US has promised to defend Ukraine using military means (in the same way as, say, Article 5 of NATO).

The only signatory to the Budapest Memorandum which has breached it in a major way is Russia - first by annexing Crimea in 2014, then in 2018 by firing on Ukrainian ships in the Strait of Kerch, and finally by staging a full blown invasion in 2022.

So if you have some unkind words to say about this conflict, address them to Russia who started this aggression in the first place.  If, on the other hand, you are just looking for an opportunity to twist a couple of facts and take a cheap shot at your own country's government, just say so, it won't be the first time.

Yes, let's get the facts straight!  The Ukrainian (and Russian) translation would be our word "guarantee".  I'm sure you can fact-check that ...

Now, I have donated to the Ukrainian refugee charity.  What have you done to help?

Where should we send the trophy?

You're damn right I'm criticizing our current administration!  Statistically ZERO COVID Deaths in our country in Americans 17 years and younger, with 46,000 reported adverse reactions to the vaccines, including death.  In studies COVID deaths in that age group in the unvaccinated were no higher than in the vaccinated group.  Yet our military is discharging recruits who refuse the jab.

Our military: Chairman of The Joint Chiefs of Staff Milley predicted in February a Russian invasion of Ukraine could take Kyiv in "just 72 hours".  He also predicted Ukraine would likely lose 15,000 troops compared to Russia's 4,000.  Is he too busy dealing with his whiteness to get real intelligence?

Inflation: It's out of control.  Why?

Crime: It's out of control.  Why?

While we're discharging young men from the service for refusing that jab, we're allowing thousands of illegals to enter the country every day, knowing literally nothing about their health or background.  And giving them cash, transportation, and cell phones!

My wife works literally every day with people who had to purchase very limited health coverage - which legally excludes pre-existing conditions - because they couldn't afford the new Obamacare premiums.  What are YOU doing to meet that need?

(Oh, and you did keep your doctor and save $2,000 a year on insurance premiums, right?)

If you're not upset by the current state of affairs in this country, you either (1) have your head in the sand, (2) don't give a rat's a-- about anyone but yourself, or (3) simply look the other way rather than acknowledge the failings of your political heroes.
Dennis Leonhardi
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2022, 09:13:45 AM »
I've Posted enough information in this Forum about our Government. Keep in mind, our Government is made up of people. People who aren't perfect. In fact, eventually, politicians become criminals. Really bad criminals. As we're starting to see, thank you Donald Trump.

For over 40 years, I've said the US Government is the most corrupt government on the planet. People learn slowly. Plus American Citizens are mislead. Lied to, each and every day for as far back as I can remember. Democrat Socialist Communists, right out in the open now.

Since 1996, I've been making plans to get out of this s---hole called America. And don't lecture me saying it's the best place to live on the planet. I know better. Not only has our political leaders ruined the Country, they've had help from citizens as well. Really ugly people some have become, by conditioning and design. Low moral standards? Look around, you don't have far to go to see these terrible people.

It's cost myself and two other lifetime friends and families a small fortune to make our "escape."

I told you I'm going to the Azores. We're winding down with loos ends but getting it done.

BTW. Anyone want to buy a horse? We'll give him away if we cannot sell him.  ;D

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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2022, 03:15:21 PM »

BTW. Anyone want to buy a horse? We'll give him away if we cannot sell him.  ;D

First rule of marketing, well maybe it is the third but, don't tell the customer he/she/it can have for free if they don't buy it!  LL~

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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2022, 04:37:41 PM »
The real beauty of this "Administration" (?) and the Ukraine tragedy is that Biden withheld shipments of arms to Ukraine as late as December, 2021.  He was going to work everything out in "summits" with Putin, don't ya know!?!

But, hey - criticize our government?  Well, do you get around much!?!

JFK listened to his Chiefs propose a preemptive nuclear strike on Russia.

The CIA engineered the overthrow of a foreign leader against the wishes of the elected President.  They've also conducted test after test on unknowing civilians, particularly in the South and on primarily Black populations.  How about the proposal to hire Hispanic people to kill Americans in Florida so we could justify attacking Cuba?

The FBI?  Well, they were too busy preserving their fiefdom to read correspondence from the CIA reporting Mideasterners training to fly airliners who had no interest in landing procedures.  And a request to wire tap one of the terrorists right here in Minneapolis was denied by the Head of the FBI himself, Robert Mueller.  You DO recognize that name when you hear the words "Russian Collusion", right?

Now that they're busy hunting "domestic terrorists" who protest at School Board meetings, we know they can't be counted on for much other than that very important mission!

You do know the Somali Community here in Minneapolis warned the FBI FIVE (5) YEARS before 9/11, right?

The Pentagon Papers.  The Afghanistan Papers. Completely False Body Counts, Completely False "We're almost there" reports.  Pilots being shot down by the dozens because they're ordered to fly the same routes, at the same times - and for God's sake, don't hurt any Russians!

Why would anyone criticize our own government?  Especially this "Administration"?  Maybe because we think we can - and should - do better?
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2022, 05:38:01 PM »

The "bad" which has been done to this Country cannot be fixed.

Without a DOJ and a balanced system for those who commit crimes, we rely on prosecutors for this, you have no country.

The Obama years, those in power, really expedited these problems.

And it gets worse now that they eliminated honest voting.



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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2022, 04:17:41 AM »
The "bad" which has been done to this Country cannot be fixed.

Without a DOJ and a balanced system for those who commit crimes, we rely on prosecutors for this, you have no country.

The Obama years, those in power, really expedited these problems.

And it gets worse now that they eliminated honest voting.

Charles, I don't want to agree with you - hope never dies.  But I really cry for what I've seen our country become.  And you hit a nerve.

In his book Things That Matter, Charles Krauthammer titles a section on the Obama Era "The Lawless Presidency" - and lists a couple of pages of illegal actions Obama and his Administration took.  Like directing a 70+ percent subsidy for the insurance premiums paid by congressmen and their personal staffs.  Under a law that prohibits subsidies for anyone at their income level.

Can anyone here spell SWAMP?

Obama himself stated publicly, on at least 11 occasions, that his Executive Order on young illegals was likely unconstitutional - and it is.  Congress failed to pass the Dream Act, so Obama just made it "law" - all by himself.

And the Department of Justice has become a political weapon with no relationship to "justice".

We can only hope that enough of us "deplorables" put on our big boy pants and change the course of the country.
Dennis Leonhardi
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2022, 07:44:46 AM »
Charles, I don't want to agree with you - hope never dies.  But I really cry for what I've seen our country become.  And you hit a nerve.

In his book Things That Matter, Charles Krauthammer titles a section on the Obama Era "The Lawless Presidency" - and lists a couple of pages of illegal actions Obama and his Administration took.  Like directing a 70+ percent subsidy for the insurance premiums paid by congressmen and their personal staffs.  Under a law that prohibits subsidies for anyone at their income level.

Can anyone here spell SWAMP?

Obama himself stated publicly, on at least 11 occasions, that his Executive Order on young illegals was likely unconstitutional - and it is.  Congress failed to pass the Dream Act, so Obama just made it "law" - all by himself.

And the Department of Justice has become a political weapon with no relationship to "justice".

We can only hope that enough of us "deplorables" put on our big boy pants and change the course of the country.

In all honesty, I strongly believe it's too late. The control of the DOJ goes really deep in favor of the Democrat Communists. Even if Trump or someone who cares becomes President, This agency will not work for him. We have already witnessed this repeatedly.

Now the Communists have their "street army," with BLM and Antifa, to cause havoc if we get out of line.

The best example I can give which can be easily understood, is this Forum.

Look what has been done to me over 11 or 12 years and nothing changes. The Forum is simple compared to the thousands of individuals employed, plus bought and paid for, by Democrats at all levels. They stick together and are rooted!

What is the fix?

Where do you think the country will be in the future? What is the future for America?

How do you "feel." The way you feel is orchestrated by "design" deliberately and there's no way to fix it.

Just like my relationship with others in the Forum. No one does anything about it. If you try to do good with the country, you could be in serious trouble or killed. Have we not already seen this?

Americans are divided by their own choice. Good thing some of us realize exactly what's going on. This is why I'm headed to the Azores.

I said my son flies for FedEx cross borders, he's there every week. When he lands a job flying people instead of cargo, we're gone.

It should be soon.

I won't miss anything here.

Wanna buy a TEXACO 13?  ;D
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2022, 01:58:19 AM »
Words of a famous General:
Dennis Leonhardi
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Offline Teodorico Terry

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2022, 06:44:41 AM »
Some of you guys need to get out a little more or at least get your news from a variety of sources rather than simply listening to what you agree with.  The US and the UK did not have a commitment to keep the Ukraine safe; it was simply to respect their right to their independence; the same applies to Russia.  The bad actor here is Russia, just remember that.

Unless you want to get into a direct confrontation what the US and Europe are doing is reasonable.  Should aid have been forthcoming before the invasion?  Probably yes, specially given that the US was generally correct in their assessment of the situation (the French Intelligence chief got the boot because he missed it altogether).  What do the Ukrainians need?  Stuff that they can use right now which means weapon systems that they are familiar with or require little training.  In short, mostly old Soviet era material.  In the US, the training related to the use of a stinger missile takes 1 month, mostly using simulators.  By the way, that system is ancient and there is better stuff out there.  The British did provide the Starstreak which is superior.

Did the Polish MIG 29 make sense.  No really.  The planes have electronics which enable them to operate within NATO (say IFF systems - identify friend or foe) which would have needed to be stripped out (don't want the Russians getting their hands on that) and the planes were the export version of it, not the Soviet version which the Ukrainians operated.  The S400 systems operating from within Russia and Belarus can cover about 1/2 of the Ukrainian airspace which forces them to fly at low level looking for targets of opportunity.  The MIG 29 is also very short legged, most missions would not extend beyond 1 hour if that. Given that environment even enforcing a no fly zone would be a tall order.  The Europeans have the equipment to do it but not the depth to do it for long, with help from the US maybe it could be done but at what cost?  Keep in mind that the no fly zones implemented before were in areas which were not as heavily defended as this.

People are very quick to say we should do more but generally short in detailing what that assistance should be.  My view is that we should not get involved directly in this; we do not want to give China a window to really start pushing the envelope.  Up to the fall of the Soviet Union the US military was generally geared towards fighting two wars at the same time.  The peace dividend that came out of it meant that the US and many other countries decided to spend less in their Military.  What has happened in the Ukraine has shifted the focus with the Europeans now more fully engaged with respect to Russia which gives the US the opportunity to focus on China. 

If you truly want something to complain about, look at the defense budget and how it is being spent.  People will always complain that there isn't enough funding but we spend more than anyone else.  The issue is how it is being spent in view of the long term strategic situation.  Of the 6 branches of the military the Navy and the Marines probably suffered the most.  The Navy is decommissioning ships that still have life in them and not replacing them with an equal number of new ships. The argument is that they new ships will be more capable but in some cases the assessments are made based on technology which is not mature. There are two long term strategies, one in which you convince the opponent that they will not be able to achieve their goals from the get go and hence they don't bother trying.  The other in which the retaliation after the do something will be so devastating that it is better not to try it.  The second option is what the US is pursuing because it is cheaper.



Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2022, 08:54:38 AM »
One fact is certain.

Russia did not take Ukrainian land under President Trump.

Russia DID take Ukrainian land under Obama and Biden.
Paul Smith

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2022, 09:14:20 AM »
... My view is that we should ...

I'm probably not the only one here who thinks you need to get out a little more and find more news sources ... as always, this administration has been a day late and a dollar short.

Europe is finally realizing feeding Putin's coffers hasn't been very wise.  Can you name one thing this administration has done to facilitate that?  We surely saw movement in a prior administration.

Yes, our defense spending leaves much to be desired.  So how much more of our time and dollars should be spent on the "woke" movement while continuing to downgrade the quality of training and the physical standards required?  Are you glad the mothers of America have finally gotten through to the Marines, for example, and demanded that Drill Sergeants not say unkind things to recruits?

Now we learn the "equity" movement will be installed in 90 more federal agencies.  That will surely make us stronger!  Yup ...

Are you pleased with the intelligence gathering that allowed Milley to predict the Russians would take Kyiv in just 72 hours?

There is so much to criticize here, and the train didn't just off the track a day, a month, or a year ago.
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2022, 09:17:53 AM »
One fact is certain.

Russia did not take Ukrainian land under President Trump.

Russia DID take Ukrainian land under Obama and Biden.

And the pipeline from Russia wasn't going to be feeding the Germans.  NATO countries finally starting meeting their defense spending obligations.  And now Germany may be making the most radical shift ,,,
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2022, 09:34:53 AM »
The "bad actor" is the USA every time it's controlled by Liberal Democrat Communists. I've been saying his for over 40 years and it hasn't caught on yet.

Bad people doing really bad things all over the planet. We are in their way as is Trump.

Can the USA be fixed. I think not, it's too late.

We're frogs in a pan of water. I've had enough.

Anyone interested in the Azores?

Charles

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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Teodorico Terry

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2022, 02:30:10 PM »
You guys need to start doing a little more reading.  The Ukrainian election in 2011 was a sham which got Viktor Yanukovych elected (by the way you may want to look into his relationship with Manafort).  He gave the Russians permission to re-establish a naval base in the Crimea.  In 2014 they had a snap election following the revolution who saw someone who was not friendly to Russia (as was the case with Yanukovych) win the elections.  The Russians took Crimea back in response that; they did not want to loose the base.  Compounding this was the fact that the Ukrainian military was woefully prepared for it.  They did learn their lesson however as demonstrated by recent events.  This does not mean that politically things were going well in the Ukraine, corruption continued to be rampant.  Zelensky is far from perfect as well; he has allowed the corruption to continue.  If you recall (probably not), in 2019 Trump recalled the US ambassador to the Ukraine because she was not playing ball with Trump.  If you recall, military aid was also withheld at the same time.  The fact that Russia did not invade the Ukraine while IQ45 was running the country might be correlated but correlation is not evidence of causation.  This is something that many people just do not get and it applies in this case.  What would IQ45 have done differently? He alienated many of our allies during his administration and foreign policy was never one of his strong suits.

The fact that Europe relies on Russian gas and oil for about 2/3 of their energy needs gave Russia the impression that the Europeans would give him carte blanche to do as he pleased and would not intervene.  Of these, the Germans were the biggest offenders and the US had been telling them that it was a bad idea to be so dependent on Russia for its energy needs for a long time.  Have any of your guys stopped to think how come the pipelines that run from Russia through the Ukraine to Europe have not been targeted by the Ukrainians? The Ukrainians understand that in this war that is the nuclear option and that is why the gas keeps flowing.  The US is helping the Europeans find other sources but this is not going to happen over night.  This problem would not exist if they had not been so dependent of Russian energy.

Aviojet, If you think that the situation is so bad in the US that merits moving to the Azores, go ahead and do it, I doubt anybody really cares.  The US is not a communist country but it is at risk of becoming a Fascist one however.



Offline Teodorico Terry

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2022, 02:32:32 PM »
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2022, 03:23:25 PM »
Quote
Aviojet, If you think that the situation is so bad in the US that merits moving to the Azores, go ahead and do it, I doubt anybody really cares.  The US is not a communist country but it is at risk of becoming a Fascist one however.

About the Azores, the USA and IQ45.

The Azores.

My first trip to the Azores was in 1996. At the time I was running a seaplane charter business in Florida. The Azores wasn't the only place I scoped to find a dream location. Went to many islands and most governments made it difficult if not impossible for operating a charter and sight seeing business. That in itself is a long conversation and another story.

Wife and I said we should retire in the Azores, so we are. With some of our life long friends. Americans retire all over the planet, because they can, and in many cases, it has mothing to do with politics. Maybe relaxation or the beach? USA politics. Which, FYI. has much to do with the freedom you have and "feel" on a day to day experience, or don't feel. I told you I've been watching these American Communists for 40 years. That should sink in, but I know it won't.

The USA.

The USA is fine. The problem are those criminals who get elected and continue with the status quo. The status que isn't in "light" and never has been in "light" for the needs and well being of the American citizen. Government pacification and propaganda. Do you know anything about this? Like I said, been watching these criminal Communists for 40 years. I'm actually alone carrying the weight of what I know over many years. Sure, I've tried to educate but it's just about impossible. Still difficult today.

IQ45.

This Tells me everything I need to know about you.

Where done.
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Teodorico Terry

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2022, 05:18:07 PM »
To be clear I did not call anyone names until you posted this: 'controlled by Liberal Democrat Communists'.  Figured it was only fair.

At any rate, I have been to both Portugal and Spain and although I am a fluent Spanish speaker I found the Portuguese to be extremely approachable and friendly, maybe more so than the Spaniards. If the same holds true for the Azores it should be a nice place to live in.


Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2022, 12:49:59 AM »
...
IQ45.   This Tells me everything I need to know about you.

Spot On!    y1 y1 y1

When you can't defend the response of the folks you elect, change the topic to ...  corruption in Ukraine?  How about we outline the depth of the problem here before we condemn others?

Of course it's Putin's fault!  We're told that every day, except when it's Governor Abbott's truck inspections to blame!  To paraphrase, "Let him with eyes to see, see."  Not possible with our head buried in the sand.

Dennis

PS: Why go back only to 2011?  Let's go back to March 1918 when the Bolsheviks (Communists) ceded Ukraine and more to the Central Powers in the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk.  British, Czech, French, Italian, Japanese, Slovakian and American forces fought the Bolsheviks along with White Russian forces; American troops didn't leave the port of Vladivostok until 1920 and the Japanese remained until 1922.   

"The strangling of Bolshevism at its birth would have been an untold blessing to the human race." - Winston Churchill
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 03:26:36 AM by AirClassix »
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Offline Teodorico Terry

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2022, 07:10:27 AM »
I did not change the subject, it still referred to the Ukraine. Foreign policy suffered under Trump and just like you would like say that Biden has not done enough for the Ukraine the same or worse could be said about his predecessor. 

Regardless of what you think about Biden, it is unlikely that he will stage a coup if the democrats lose the election in 2024. So if the country decides it wants a change in direction it will happen. The fact that IQ45 asked his VP to usurp the results of the election on Jan 6 will be his legacy.  The beauty of conspiracy theories is that they need no proof, just to sow a seed of doubt and you are off and running.  By putting himself before country he managed to cast doubt on the process and possibly left the country irreparably damaged.  I know that you will come back and say that the "evidence" was suppressed or not given a fair chance but the fact is that of all the suit brought forward, all but one failed and the one which did not did so on a side argument, not the main argument.  One of the few things that IQ45 delivered on was to appoint federal judges, 225 in 4 years vs. 320 for Obama in 8 years.  If he had kept the pace and served for 8 years he would have beaten both Reagan and Clinton by a large margin.  The point is, out of the more than 60 suits brought forward what are the chances that all of the judges who oversaw then were unfriendly to him?  I would say highly improbable.  In the end we were fortunate that the judges opted to do their job rather than side with party politics.

So you probably think that I am idiot, snow flake, etc. but I really do not give a damn.  Part of the reason of flying C/L is that it can be done alone; I was getting tired of hearing about politics every time I went flying; I just wanted to fly.  I have never claimed that Biden was perfect or that he has done everything right but he was the right choice given the options.  I had hoped that in the 4 years following 2020 the Republicans would get their act together divest themselves of Trump; they had their opportunity during the 2nd impeachment trial but they were too afraid to do so politically.  Unfortunately, the Democrats will probably not have anything better to offer so 2024 will be a repeat of 2016 and 2020; pick the least worst option.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2022, 08:02:46 AM »
s.
So you probably think that I am idiot, snow flake, etc. but I really do not give a damn.  Part of the reason of flying C/L is that it can be done alone; I was getting tired of hearing about politics every time I went flying; I just wanted to fly.
Could be both. Just curious, who brought up politics when you flew?  I have been flying over 60 years and I don't have a clue, nor do I give a rats a** what the politics are of the people I fly with. 

Ken
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Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2022, 09:15:15 AM »
Could be both. Just curious, who brought up politics when you flew?  I have been flying over 60 years and I don't have a clue, nor do I give a rats a** what the politics are of the people I fly with. 

Ken

 y1 y1 y1 y1

"Fascism".  When we see that innuendo (scare?) the bias is obvious.  As is the separation from reality.

In 2021 more than 120 retired American Admirals and Generals signed a (published) open letter which reads in part

"We are in a fight for our survival as a Constitutional Republic like no other time since our founding in 1776.  The conflict is between supporters of Socialism and Marxism vs. supporters of Constitutional freedom and liberty."  NO mention of that other "ism".

One would hope thinking adults can separate personalities from policies and programs, but it's obvious here that's a bit too much to hope for.
Dennis Leonhardi
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Offline Teodorico Terry

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2022, 11:11:05 AM »
Ken,

On the R/C side I fly pattern which is quite different from what everyone else flies.  What you have to keep in mind is the age demographics within the hobby, both in R/C and C/L with C/L probably having a higher average age. Now the caveat; I am Hispanic but do not look the part since I am white and after more than 30 years in the US I have a pretty slight accent.  Most people just assume I am from down South somewhere in the US. Since I look like them, they generally assume that I am just like them; as a result they are not very guarded about they say.  Much of the stuff would not fly in polite company or at church.  I considering politics mostly although race comes into play as well.   I would engage occasionally but for the most part I would not; it is not going to change anyone's mind.  I always carry a book with me and I normally just read in between flights or while waiting for batteries to charge. After the election it picked up and just got old in a hurry. The irony is that some of them would ask for help with their models since I was an instructor at the time; so I just had my name removed from the roster and no longer instruct. 

The club does have a separate area for C/L and out of the membership we have about 5-6 that fly C/L on a regular basis. Most fly for sport, I am the only one who flies stunt but we have fun.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2022, 12:29:17 PM »
I am sorry that you have to put up with that.  Maybe you should move to the South.  Sure, we have our share of bigots, both racial and political from both sides but they are in a very small (but vocal) minority and easily ignored.  Judging by your comments, I suspect that you are about 180 from me politically but how that should interfere with a good discussion about bellcrank placement or getting the kinks out of a stubborn new plane is completely beyond me.  Maybe that is why I gave up RC - the people.

One parting comment.  My opinion on President Trump is that he is probably guilty of about half of the things he is accused of which would make him one of the most ethical Presidents in my lifetime.  Pass on the cute names.  It shuts down meaningful debate which means that you now have a zero chance of making YOUR point.

Ken
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2022, 04:35:46 PM »
"One parting comment.  My opinion on President Trump is that he is probably guilty of about half of the things he is accused of which would make him one of the most ethical Presidents in my lifetime.  Pass on the cute names.  It shuts down meaningful debate which means that you now have a zero chance of making YOUR point."

 y1 The thing to remember about Trump is that he's not a lawyer and hasn't been a career politician. He may not have understood about the legalities of some of the stuff that he's accused of, and may not have gotten good information from his advisors...perhaps because most of them were also businessmen/women and not part of the swamp. Then too, remember that Trump WAS A DEMOCRAT until he hung around them quite awhile and learned what snakes and back-biters they are.

Personally, I think Trump is a jerk, but a jerk that tried to do as much as he could to get America back on track, despite the constant distractions of the demorats (sic).  H^^ Steve
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In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2022, 06:34:29 PM »
I'd be prouder if our country passed laws and took actions that actually deterred and prosecuted human trafficking.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2022, 09:44:54 AM »
"One parting comment.  My opinion on President Trump is that he is probably guilty of about half of the things he is accused of which would make him one of the most ethical Presidents in my lifetime.  Pass on the cute names.  It shuts down meaningful debate which means that you now have a zero chance of making YOUR point."

 y1 The thing to remember about Trump is that he's not a lawyer and hasn't been a career politician. He may not have understood about the legalities of some of the stuff that he's accused of, and may not have gotten good information from his advisors...perhaps because most of them were also businessmen/women and not part of the swamp. Then too, remember that Trump WAS A DEMOCRAT until he hung around them quite awhile and learned what snakes and back-biters they are.

Personally, I think Trump is a jerk, but a jerk that tried to do as much as he could to get America back on track, despite the constant distractions of the demorats (sic).  H^^ Steve
Ditto's - Ken y1
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Offline Jim Carter

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2022, 10:43:52 AM »
Let's get some facts straight.

According to the Budapest Memorandum, the U.S., the UK and Russia have agreed: (1) to respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders [in exchange for them giving up nuclear weapons], (2) refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine, (3-6) etc.  See full document for details.  Or simply look up "Budapest Memorandum" in Wikipedia.

So your statement that the US, UK and Russia "guaranteed the country's security" is misleading at least.  Which makes your later insinuation about the inaction of the US or its lack of integrity a moot point.  There is NO explicit document or agreement where the US has promised to defend Ukraine using military means (in the same way as, say, Article 5 of NATO).

The only signatory to the Budapest Memorandum which has breached it in a major way is Russia - first by annexing Crimea in 2014, then in 2018 by firing on Ukrainian ships in the Strait of Kerch, and finally by staging a full blown invasion in 2022.

So if you have some unkind words to say about this conflict, address them to Russia who started this aggression in the first place.  If, on the other hand, you are just looking for an opportunity to twist a couple of facts and take a cheap shot at your own country's government, just say so, it won't be the first time.

Now, I have donated to the Ukrainian refugee charity.  What have you done to help?

Thank you Mike!  I applaud your research and clarification.  It really gets frustrating when facts and intents get twisted for self-serving purposes or cheap soundbites. 

Offline Dennis Leonhardi

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2022, 05:33:09 AM »
Thank you Mike!  I applaud your research and clarification.  It really gets frustrating when facts and intents get twisted for self-serving purposes or cheap soundbites.

Golly gee whiz Jim, you earlier withdrew from a personal discussion of FACTS, clinging instead to the "victim" card ... and now you want "facts"?

I'll begin by reminding all that it was decidedly in America's best interest to be involved in the Budapest Memorandum because Ukraine possessed "some 1,240 nuclear warheads and 592 nuclear warheads aboard bombers" intended for us.

Secondly, I'll restate the language issue -

"The term 'security assurances' in the Ukrainian text has been translated as 'security guarantees', while all the signatories except Ukraine meant political assurances."  FACT.  https://www.mfaua.org/en/publications/the-budapest-memorandum-the-truth-behind-the-myths

And, from a U.S. diplomat involved in the negotiations -

"The Budapest Memorandum consists of a series of political assurances whereby the signatory states commit to 'respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine'.  But the meaning of the security assurances was deliberately left ambiguous.  According to a former US diplomat who participated in the talks, Steven Pifer, it was understood that if there was a violation, there would be a response incumbent on the US and the UK.  And while that response was not explicitly defined, Pifer notes that 'there is an obligation on the United States that flows from the Budapest Memorandum to provide assistance to Ukraine, and […] that would include lethal military assistance'.  https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-what-is-the-budapest-memorandum-and-why-has-russias-invasion-torn-it-up-178184

"U.S. officials did assure their Ukrainian counterparts, however, that there would be a response.  The United States should continue to provide reform and military assistance to Ukraine.  It should continue sanctions on Russia.  It should continue to demand that Moscow end its aggression against Ukraine.  And it should continue to urge its European partners to assist Kyiv and keep the sanctions pressure on the Kremlin."

"Washington should do this, because it said it would act if Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum.  That was part of the price it paid in return for a drastic reduction in the nuclear threat to America.  The United States should keep its word."  https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/12/05/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memorandum/

In the words of President Abraham Lincoln, "You must remember that some things legally right are not morally right."

Now: Did you approve of Biden withholding military aid while Russian troops massed on the Ukranian border? Yes or No?

Dennis

PS: You can write any definition you want on Wikipedia for the Memorandum.  Maybe best to avoid that as a definitive source ...
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Offline Wayne Collier

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2022, 09:32:12 AM »
The US is not a communist country but it is at risk of becoming a Fascist one however.

Terry,  Realizing that there are technical differences in the terms socialist, communist, and facism. Historically, as it affects the common citizen, the only practical difference seems to be which people group is selected for hatred and extermination, and which group is considered elite.

Or as a high school civics teacher once put it, it doesn’t matter if you run off the left side of the bridge or the right side of the bridge, you end up in the same river.

That being said, what do you mean when you use the term facist, and what are you observing that makes you fear we are leaning that way?

Wayne Collier     Northeast Texas
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Offline Teodorico Terry

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2022, 08:16:52 AM »
Wayne,

I like the way your civics teacher phrased his response, there are a lot of similarities between the two. I used the term as a pejorative.  If you look at the other  "ism" there are a lot of characteristics which carry over across all of them so in some respects they look similar.  What I see in the U.S. is the rise of Nationalism, particularly of the Christian variety as being worrisome, an intentional erosion of the trust in the institutions which are the foundation of the government, in particular of the process by which we choose who will represent us. There are other reasons as well but in this forum I am basically the minority and it is just not worth the hassle.

With regard to the Ukraine I think that it is naive of people to expect that it would be more than a proxy war for the U.S. and other Western countries; it is probably as far as the U.S. can go without a direct confrontation. Long term strategy is probably simply to wear out Russia economically and degrade their military readiness. All of this only works as long as the Ukrainians are able to keep an effective fighting force. Just like the Russians they are probably also experiencing significant losses in personnel which they will find harder to replace.  The story being told in the news is definitely lopsided in favor the Ukrainians; we hear about the losses on the Russian side on a regular bases but very little on the Ukrainian side. In that respect they have handled the P.R. aspect of the war much better than the Russians. This is a crappy and stupid war and sure hope that the Ukrainians prevail.

Teo

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2022, 01:14:40 PM »
There are other reasons as well but in this forum I am basically the minority and it is just not worth the hassle.
If you are confident in your views then there is no point in debating them when you are in the majority.  That is nothing more than an echo chamber.  As long as you can keep it on point and avoid the name calling you will find most here eager to engage.


This is a crappy and stupid war and sure hope that the Ukrainians prevail.
All wars are crappy and stupid in my opinion.  They are rarely started by the people that actually have to fight them.


Ken
« Last Edit: September 07, 2022, 06:31:50 AM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline Teodorico Terry

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Re: Question For Americans: Are You Proud !?!
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2022, 05:06:59 AM »
t

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