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Author Topic: wing dihedral  (Read 1761 times)

Offline sleepy gomez

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wing dihedral
« on: January 16, 2010, 08:17:52 PM »
What are the effects of dihedral on a CL stunt plane?  Fast Richard's profile Citabria had some.  It flew well.  So if you had a more or less conventional plane and used a little dihedral or anhedral in the wing (straight wing no taper) what would be the result? 

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: wing dihedral
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2010, 09:49:03 PM »
Planes I've seen with dihedral seem to be overly effected by crosswinds. They get rocked downwind by any shift in breeze. This is strictly my observation. I know others will probably differ in their opinion. Because dihedral is often recommended to compensate for the vertical cg imbalance in a low wing design.  It seemed to me that Corsairs with their gullwing(?)  are also effected similarly.

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: wing dihedral
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 12:06:25 AM »
The only major effect of dihedral in control line, is to correct for improper vertical CG. Pat Johnston, and myself, ok (Al Rabe, and several others too,not that I put myself in their league) have flown several planes with dihedral. the only one I know of that exhibited any issue with wind was Pats corsair, and it was pretty much only in a gale.
The reason pat and I use it, is because on a semi scale stunter, they just dont look right with the wing in the middle of the fuselage,, so you move the wing down where it belongs, and add dihedral to get the leadouts up where they belong.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: wing dihedral
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 01:25:37 PM »
What dihedral does is to give more angle of attack to the upwind wing when the airplane is in a sideslip. Hence if you maneuver downwind, a mid-wing airplane with dihedral would roll out (hinging, as stunt fliers say) on inside loops and in toward you on outside loops. Wing location on the fuselage has a similar effect.  A low wing location acts as negative dihedral, so the wing location and dihedral tend to cancel each other. Air flowing around a fuselage in a sideslip on a low-wing airplane flows down on the upwind wing and up on the downwind wing. This causes the upwind wing to have reduced angle of attack and the downwind wing to have increased angle of attack. Conversely, a high wing acts as positive dihedral. Hence, Cessnas have straight wings and Pipers have dihedral. High-wing airplanes like the C-141 and B-52 have negative dihedral to counter the effect of flow around the fuselage.

I found an Amazon book preview that explains it: http://books.google.com/books?id=AUWCXVepMKEC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=rolling+moment+due+to+sideslip&source=bl&ots=sM7l7amIuP&sig=ikwkFTmTxDropmMR3fE1mDkDfvg&hl=en&ei=t3FTS6meNJPSsQOv8qH1Bw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAjgU#v=onepage&q=rolling%20moment%20due%20to%20sideslip&f=false

Serendipitously, the leadouts on a low-wing airplane with dihedral come out at about the right location relative to the vertical CG.

(cut and pasted from SSW)
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: wing dihedral
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2010, 10:18:41 PM »
See I was right. See I was wrong. See... Put the wing in the middle, make it flat. Who needs more variables. The planes I saw ballooning and hinging were doing this in moderate air, not gale conditions. Perhaps Mark could do the vector equations and demonstrate otherwise. Beside Rabe's low wing planes did have a tendency to hinge. Which is why he developed TAH DAH the Rabe rudder.

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: wing dihedral
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2010, 08:51:56 AM »
Great!
Thanks Howard ... Now another book I have to go buy!
If you think this is bad, contemplate what wing sweep does for the angle-of-attack dependent yaw into rolling moment couple.
Should we all be flying wings with straight 1/4 chord lines? We're back to the ARES!

Given a choice to add dihedral to get the leadouts in the right place and not having them at the vertical CG, I'd take the dihedral, but there is a good reason that most Stunters have straight wings and components juggled to get the CG correct.

take care,
Dean Pappas
Dean Pappas

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: wing dihedral
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 08:05:55 AM »
I agree Dean; But they do look cool. Kind of reminds me of the Tiger Tail from my old R/C pattern days except for the turtle deck. I think Yates was way ahead of his time with the Dragon and Mad Man.
Jim Kraft

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: wing dihedral
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2010, 03:25:21 PM »
I don't think JC Yates was actually thinking about vertical CG.  In his own words, he designed the Dragon (and later the Madman) to "look" like "real" planes!  Nothing more!  The Madman was actually a step backward in aerodynamics, but he favored the "look" of a tapered wing planform.

Floyd
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