News:


  • April 28, 2024, 12:11:42 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts  (Read 1374 times)

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« on: April 06, 2009, 11:51:42 AM »

My new plane was flown for the first time yesterday. On the way home, I was thinking about the design concept behind it (apart from being silly with the styling and such) and was pretty pleased with myself. This is a brand new design.

About 600 square inches. 55 inch span. Could be a bit more than 600 because I didn't actually calculate when I was drawing it (OK, so I was silly, but hey, it looked right), but it's around 600, maybe 610. Something like that. About 50oz after adding some lead to balance it. It could be less if I give up the current engine (OS40VF) and go with the lighter one (PA40UL). I could then lose the 1.5oz in the tail. I'd probably have to put a half ounce back in the nose, but I could get that using a metal spinner instead of the current plastic one. Not sure it's worth it for an ounce savings. Not heavy, but not really light either. It's pretty much what I thought would be a good weight for the design. I had planned for a weight of 48 to 52oz and clearly it right in the middle.. The wing is my own airfoil. A bit sharper leading edge than I usually use. About 20% thickness with the high point back about 26%. Looks very like a NACA 0018 with just a bit more thickness. The idea behind this was a bit better wind penetration and perhaps a bit better groove. I often use very thick, very blunt airfoils with the high point well forward and while they can carry a lot of weight, they are somewhat harder to trim (at least for me) and, I feel, more susceptible to turbulence. I don't think they penetrate all that well but do have other benefits for those of us that tend to build porky planes. It's pretty overpowered with the OS40VF and on a pipe. Considering the size of the flaps (big), the size of the tailplane (also big at about 28% of the wing) and long moment arms (really long tail moment trying to accommodate the heavy engine in what is a pretty light design, the mechanical advantage in the thing is pretty huge. 4" bellcrank, very long flap and elevator horns (flap is 1.5" and 1" and the elevator is a slider that goes from 1.25 to .75) and quite a lot of handle spacing (right now about 4.25 inches).

Maiden flight was in 10mph winds with gusts to about 15. Zero problems. No wind up and no control issues after I got a bit of tail weight in it. Even in it's initially very nose heavy condition, if flew OK if a bit sluggish. The thing just flies and just goes where you point it. Good corner and very, very stable. Tracking seems pretty good so far. I'll be dinking with the fine trimming over the next 10 flights or so. But with just 4 flights on it, right this minute it flies better than any other plane I own.

Point is, the idea was to build a relatively light, smaller airframe and put a lot of very controllable power in the nose. For controllability, you don't get much better than the 40VF. It has a wing designed to be less bothered by wind and turbulence but generate enough lift to carry the weight easily. Large flaps that don't deflect a bunch but will generate additional lift when needed and enough authority in the tail to stop a turn quickly, again, in less than ideal conditions. The control system is limited (on purpose) to about 18° deflection and trust me, that's plenty. Hook up currently is about 1 to 1.

Nice to design something, actually built it to specs then have it perform pretty much as predicted when I was putting pencil to paper (in my case littorally). Makes a guy start to think he actually does have some idea of what he's doing. I was beginning to wonder.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 11:43:25 AM by Randy Powell »
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Mark Scarborough

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 5918
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2009, 12:24:33 PM »
Randy,
its VERY good to hear you in such a positive mood.. so now to decide,, will this be your PA weapon too?  ;D since only the track matters in the judging of manuevers,, cough cough,, then surely you wont be handicapped by flying a profile,, though admitadly a high tech one,,  S?P S?P VD~ S?P S?P

all kidding aside, sounds like you have a winner,,

LIke my Gee Bee that was stolen to some extent from Pats P-40, though moments are different, tail area different,, and definetly cosmetic different. After not being able to fly for 5 months, I took it out Saturday in Portland, and put up a pattern, like an old pair of shoes, it felt right,,ahhhh ;)
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Shultzie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3474
  • Don Shultz "1969 Nats Sting Ray"
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2009, 12:34:29 PM »
AMEN!!!
RANDY!!! I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT JUST HOW GREAT THAT MODEL LOOKS ON THE GROUND AND IN THE AIR....BUT APPEARS TO BE FLYING EQUALLY AS GOOD AS IT LOOKS!

Congratulations of one really MEEEEAN N' LEAN FLYIN' MACHINE!!!
(Pictures to follow later today! Gotta drop them off at Targetto in a few minutes!)
Don Shultz

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 01:19:07 PM »
Mark,

Hey, don't laugh. If the PA plane doesn't come around (though I'm pretty sure it will), I wouldn't have a problem in the world flying this plane in the PA event.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Mark Scarborough

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 5918
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2009, 01:55:56 PM »
Thats good, cause I am going to protest that it meets the profile rules,,
no I dont care what I told you before you built it,,  n~ n~ y1
really, its a pretty cool concept, high tech piped motor on a 50's looking airframe,, lol, gotta love it.
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2009, 03:38:22 PM »
Hey, it's 3/4" at the trailing edge and the engine is exposed "lugs to plug". As profile as an Imitation.   ;D

I'll let you fly it in Portland. It's really very cool.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Shultzie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3474
  • Don Shultz "1969 Nats Sting Ray"
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 03:45:09 PM »
AMEN!!!
RANDY!!! I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT JUST HOW GREAT THAT MODEL LOOKS ON THE GROUND AND IN THE AIR....BUT APPEARS TO BE FLYING EQUALLY AS GOOD AS IT LOOKS!

Congratulations of one really MEEEEAN N' LEAN FLYIN' MACHINE!!!
(Pictures to follow later today! Gotta drop them off at Targetto in a few minutes!)

TARGETTO MESSED the first run of photos...I tried to enhance some very very dark photos that had two processing roller stripes.
Hopefully the negatives are OK...as they are trying to "make them over" but Leo and I know from bein' in the processing and film camera business...Chances of improving these shots are next to nuttin'
Brother Steve...

More photos to follow after I pick up TARGETTO'S MAKE OVER ATTEMPT..DAAA? LL~ LL~ VD~ n~
Don Shultz

Offline Howard Rush

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7812
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 05:52:35 PM »
Time to go digital, Don.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Mark Scarborough

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 5918
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2009, 09:20:24 PM »
Don,
you can pick up used digitals all over, people seem to be in lust for technology even though the new camara isnt that much better,, I have a Canon 20 D that I LOVE. It has more than you can use in a lifetime of snappo pictures at airplanes, good lenses, reliable, and I bet you could pick up a pretty nice one for nigh on a few hundered bucks today since there is like 4 or 5 versions after mine.
just think, free pictures, no trips to the targottooo film butchers,, no prints, no scanning,, oh and they make a lense that attaches just like a normal lense for duplicating slides digitally! so no rinnky dinky scanner issues!
of course then comes a faster computer to store all the pretty pictures of birds,, ( the flying kind not the two legged beach going ones,, shame on you,,,,!) mw~
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Shultzie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3474
  • Don Shultz "1969 Nats Sting Ray"
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2009, 10:05:18 AM »
Sorry Randy...to kiddynapp' this great stunt design post of yours...but everyone is dead right on...
I NEED TO UPDATE S.A.P to digital H^^
While we are at it....RANDY! AGAIN!!
CONGRATS on that new Style and profiler' model. Great to hear that it looks so great and flys the same way.
What a stylish slant to the engine which accomadates the pipe under the way! How digggitydamn cool is that!!! H^^ CLP**
Don Shultz

Offline Howard Rush

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7812
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2009, 11:24:22 AM »
On Leo's advice, I got a Panasonic.  Mine is a DMC-FZ18, which everybody thinks is wonderful, and I agree.  There may be a newer and even more wonderful version by now.

Number of pixels is maybe not the most important criterion. 
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Design thoughts
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2009, 11:42:30 AM »
To go with Shultize's pirating of the topic, I have a Kodak Z760. 5.1 megapixel I think. With memory card, holds about 400 pics. Seems an OK camera with a 10x optical zoom and another 10x digital zoom, though the pic quality takes a dive if you use the digital part. Seems a fine camera that I think I paid about $175 for when it first came out a couple of years ago. They are probably cheaper now.

With the 128mg memory card, is will also take up to 10 minutes of 640x480 video in .mov format. That's kinda weird.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Shultzie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3474
  • Don Shultz "1969 Nats Sting Ray"
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2009, 10:51:17 AM »
Back from Targetto....(its Wed morn.) prints are not any betta...
but at least they fixed one shot of Randy' new Dandy that looks a tad better...
I tried rescanning both the negs and the prints. (looks like it was a processing problem and not the printing problem. The negs still have those little roller stain marks.

HERE IS A TEST SCAN OF ONE PRINT that they missed the first time? n~
Don Shultz

Offline FLOYD CARTER

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4458
    • owner
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2009, 02:38:36 PM »
Digital camera topic !!

I'm in the market for a new one.  My old one (Canon) takes too long for automatic focus and  exposure.  By that time, the subject has left the scene!  How about a MANUAL digital? Any good suggestions?

If all else fails, I still have my Pentax KX and Retina 2 film cameras.

Floyd
89 years, but still going (sort of)
AMA #796  SAM #188  LSF #020

Offline Leo Mehl

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1951
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2009, 05:51:46 PM »
Olypus is puting out new SLR that is not too expensive or a Nikon D-40. Most SLR's have no time delay. Most point and shootetrs do! HB~> HB~>

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13741
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2009, 07:16:37 PM »
Digital camera topic !!

I'm in the market for a new one.  My old one (Canon) takes too long for automatic focus and  exposure.  By that time, the subject has left the scene!  How about a MANUAL digital? Any good suggestions?

If all else fails, I still have my Pentax KX and Retina 2 film cameras.

Floyd

    Almost any SLR will do the trick  - the lag between the button and shutter is not to bad on any camera I have tried, but those with the video/LCD image has a huge lag to it, with the results you noted.  I don't think any point-and-shoot will do a lot better. But with an SLR you see real-time.

    I would recommend a Nikon D40, it's reasonably cheap and no perceptible lag. But the Pentax or Retina still works - shoot slide file (Fuji Provia) and then scan it. I've been doing that with my YashicaMat.

    Brett

Offline EddyR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 2561
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2009, 10:05:16 PM »
The one thing people skimp on in there digital cameras is the memory chip speed. There is a difference in load speed. Cheaper memory can be quite a bit slower to load. Also turn off the display window on the better point and shoot cameras and use the view finder and some will shoot at 2-5 frames a second. Also set the camera down to a lower megapixle and it will go much faster. My old Canon at 2 megapixle will shoot at 5 framer per second in raw mode. Many point and shoot cameras  have manual settings but most people do not uses them.Some will shoot at over 1/2000 second. Also turn off the flash. Another trick is to use large external batteries but you need a adapter for that.They are the same voltage but have a larger current ability. A lot of the latest point and shoot cameras no longer have a view finder and that is a shame because in bright light it is sometimes almost impossible to see the LCD  on the back of the camera. Thats probably more than you wanted to know.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Jim Pollock

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 948
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2009, 11:27:57 PM »
Nice plane Randy,

Have you tired it with less percentage of flap movement that 1 - 1.  Say around 1 - 2 or so?

Jim Pollock    H^^

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2009, 06:56:38 PM »
Jim,

It only has 4 flights on it. I'm still doing gross trimming. Got the CG right now and am moving on to leadouts and such. I have decreased the elevator movement somewhat (love those slider horns), but that was more around adjusting the sensitivity.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline phil c

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2009, 06:11:49 PM »
Digital camera topic !!

I'm in the market for a new one.  My old one (Canon) takes too long for automatic focus and  exposure.  By that time, the subject has left the scene!  How about a MANUAL digital? Any good suggestions?

If all else fails, I still have my Pentax KX and Retina 2 film cameras.

Floyd

You might take a look at the Casio Exilim FH-20.  It takes 6-8 mp shots at up to 40 frames/sec.  With a little bit of prefocus or manual settings can get you  some pretty nice flight shots.  It also takes 720p video nicely. 

AS far as the memory card(SDHC) look for a class 6 card.  4gb is about right.  room for something like 1000 shots per card using jpg. 
phil Cartier

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22773
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2009, 05:02:38 PM »
Randy, you are another of the true artists.  The layout of your paint schemes, as simple as they are, is what really imphasises your designs.  That is one gorgeous airplane.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2009, 10:30:42 AM »
Doc,

I went flying with Pete Peterson last Friday evening. His comment was that it was high on the cool scale. Seems to fly pretty well in the wind, though I'm still dinking with props. I had the perfect prop, then binked it taking off and haven't found another that works as well. Sigh... I have some in the box now that I've yet to try.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline dave shirley jr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2009, 05:26:43 PM »
Hey Randy i hope that wasn't a carbon prop?
those things are made of unobtainium! ;D
Dave jr.

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10478
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: Design thoughts - now, appearently, camera thoughts
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2009, 12:11:18 PM »
Dave,

Yep, a carbon job. More's the pity. I have a wood one I'm going to try next session.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here