Anyone have reasonably current on a set of VECO Papoose plans. Not looking for a copy of kit plans, rather a plan showing all the parts and full wing, hopefully with a top view of the fuselage. I want something that I can build on, ribs, bulkheads; not a project trying to figure what the parts NOT shown on the kit plans might look like.

Thanks,
Ed OBrien

Ed,
I have been looking for the real Papoose plans for over a year. The one I am looking for is the original Poy-Wog airfoil ship (this would be OTS legal). It seems no one ever built this or had the plans. If you find them please post.

Best,    DennisT

  Hey Ed;
     Is not the difference between a Papoose and Squaw just in flaps?  I have Joe Wagner's plan for the Squaw, and it has flaps, and I'm still looking for the Papoose, but I think I remember hearing that from Joe himself. Maybe some one else can fill in some details.
   Stay tuned for further developments,
     Dan McEntee

  Edit to update; I have not found the Papoose plans as yet. I did find a Veco Kit and the assembly sheet shows flaps on that model, so scratch that. I bought a lot of plans directly from Joe Wagner in 2003 and had hims sign and date them. I might not have gotten the Papoose, but still looking. I may be thinking of the Brave and Warrior? They may be the same or similar but one has flaps and the other doesn't?? Part of the fun of the hobby, figgering stuff out!

Ed,
I did a search on the Original Papoose and found that Jim Thomerson had a set of the original papoose but unfortunately he passed away several years back. I don't know is anyone got them from his estate. Does anyone know if Joe Wagner is still around? He did the redesign at VECO and maybe he has a set of the old plans.

Best,    DennisT

Dennis, sadly, Joe Wagner also passed away recently.

If my eyes and memory serve me right the Papoose and the Squaw are two different airplanes.   I built the Squaw back in the early 60's and got one flight before pushrod soldering job failed on an attempted wing over pull out.  I have the Papoose kit on the shelf that if some local would like to replicate the kit to a plane like most are used to these days, I might be talked into letting them use it.  Back then the thought was to sell more kits if plans were not full size.   Yet the kit plans like Sterling gave a good lesson on building the design.

By the way now I remember the Squaw and Brave were same design.  Brave showed movable flaps.

Doc,
Yes the Papoose and Squaw are different ships. The Papoose is a bit smaller, the original like the Squaw had polliwog airfoils. when Joe Wagner joined VECO he revised all the kits to a more conventional airfoil that is easier to build and cover. Unfortunately, all those kits are not OTS legal but are classic legal.

Best,    DennisT

Quote from: Steve_Pollock on October 31, 2020, 11:15:14 AMDennis, sadly, Joe Wagner also passed away recently.

Steve, sorry to hear that. Joe was quite a character, I was E-mail corresponding with him directly and through an E-mail styled forum back 17 years ago. It regarded small flight (half-A and A stuff). We'd E-mail our builds and flights with photos, he with the help of a friend would collate the E-mails into a monthly or bi-weekly newsletter with responses. I also enjoyed his engine articles in the magazines. He was a very humble, good natured down to earth guy but with a lot of practical knowledge and advice.

He will be missed.

For the Papoose and Squaw since Joe redesigned the airfoils do you think they were polliwogs like the original Chief just sized for the smaller ship wing cord? Can't believe no one has these plans out there.

Best,   DennisT

Quote from: john e. holliday on October 31, 2020, 09:21:43 PMBack then the thought was to sell more kits if plans were not full size.

No, actually the reason why only partial plans or less than full scale plans were with kits were to reduce kit production costs to keep competitive (i.e., sales). I don't remember which designer mentioned this to me, may have even been Joe Wagner, when he was still alive. Printing paper costs money, and a smaller sheet is cheaper to produce. Thus, information was sufficient so a modeler could still build a model successfully from what was printed.

They also did kit engineering, which may explain why sheet balsa fuselage sides may have been in several pieces, like with the Goldberg half-A Falcon R/C and some Sterlings. Larger Comet models like 32 in. span Sparky rubber powered, one spliced fuselage longerons and wing leading edges and strip stock. They made use of as much balsa as possible to reduce waste. Boxes were packed as full as possible. A smaller box meant more kits could be packed in a box reducing warehousing and freight costs.

We are spoiled by later kits, which take more volume but have proper length balsa and complete full size plans.

I JUST bought a Papoose kit..  As most people familiar with Veco kits, the plans are more of an instruction sheet rather than 'Full Scale Plans'..

I am currently dealing with some major family issues and will NOT have time to accomplish this for a while...  But I will eventually trace all the parts and publish it in PDF format...  that way we all have an accurate source to scratch build a Papoose to Veco factory standards..

There is currently a Veco Papoose kit on ebay.  Looks to be complete.  $180.00

Keith

Quote from: Trostle on August 28, 2022, 08:21:16 AM
There is currently a Veco Papoose kit on ebay.  Looks to be complete.  $180.00

Ridiculous price..  I bought mine on Ebay for 60 bucks..  a month ago...  a lot ebay model sellers think their item are worth more than gold..

Quote from: beercamel on August 28, 2022, 10:50:18 AMRidiculous price..  I bought mine on Ebay for 60 bucks..  a month ago...  a lot ebay model sellers think their item are worth more than gold..

There are some who attempt these type sales, but in reality it is why that for months on end no one buys their kits. Sometimes that one person feels there are no other options and buys it. Or, someone has more money than they know what to do with and clicks 'buy' or 'bid'.

Worst are those who have an incomplete or partially built kit, or missing the plans and want that kind of money.

It goes ditto with engines. I picked me up some legacy NOS Fox engines .29 to .36 for under $30 before tax and shipping, yet some think their used Fox .35 Stunt is worth over $100 when missing the needle valve. I saw an NOS A.C. Gilbert .11 Thunderhead for $135. I got mine for under $20 and no Thunderhead is worth that kind of money.