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Author Topic: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??  (Read 16025 times)

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #100 on: April 06, 2013, 08:34:25 AM »
How about the original "Songbird" (Cessna UC 78?) from the old Sky King series?

Jim
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #101 on: April 16, 2013, 07:40:46 PM »
Do.335, fer sure.  LL~ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #102 on: April 16, 2013, 08:29:28 PM »
The general lines of the Dornier arnt bad actually . a coward would put a OS10 or cox .o49 driveing the rear prop through a Extn. shaft . or someone less rash .

Rear engine up around the wing'd help .Need a bit of ducting , could be a bit awkward . ;D



Have a twin 19 / 25 one of these elongated , Er drawn up .

This one looks intresting too , on paper .



apparently it was designed so that the pilot wouldnt catch a chill . ;D



http://alain.vassel.pagesperso-orange.fr/savoia.htm wonders of modern tecnology .
fresh water definately preferable . ( they work fine on grass , perhaps .

though may be a bit FRAGILE .  >:(



Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #103 on: July 09, 2013, 01:32:57 AM »
Dont useually look this strained , thisis been on the backburner for FOUR YEARS . ands gunna needa THIRD Fuse , as thats soft & shippers Fed First.
FUDGE .



Thats the 78 in span , couple of ST 21 / whatevers likely , or OS 35S , or , Er , Como , or . .  n~ Then , Theres the COLOUR .  LL~ %^@ H^^

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #104 on: August 04, 2013, 12:37:49 PM »
No one has suggested the Fairchild A-10 :"Warthog".  Large wing area and the real one is highly maneuverable. It would be difficult fitting glo engines with props to those jet engine nacelles.

Floyd
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 Staying old is hard"
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Offline afml

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #105 on: August 04, 2013, 05:50:11 PM »
I'm partial to Lew McFarland's P-38.  #^
"Tight Lines!" H^^
Wes
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Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #106 on: August 11, 2013, 12:37:00 AM »
Wes,I like that one too.Was it more for scale or did it do a nice pattern?Tom Dixon had a set of plans at the Nats and it sure did look tempting as an Electric stunt project.Trax
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #107 on: August 14, 2013, 01:37:18 PM »
Matt's planes are ever interesting. He doesn't back off, when it comes to trying things out.

Offline Garf

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #108 on: November 19, 2013, 06:27:50 PM »
It might prove a little fragile, but I like the DeHavelline Dragon Rapide. Twin engine biplane. Looks like a dragonfly.  

Offline Bart Klapinski

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #109 on: November 06, 2020, 07:43:55 PM »
probably an ME-110

Offline John Miller

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #110 on: November 06, 2020, 07:56:57 PM »
I do like the A-10, and I'm collecting data and 3 views for it as one of my next projects. I'm thinking electric for this one, retracts should be an option as well.
Getting a line on life. AMA 1601

Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #111 on: November 06, 2020, 10:58:39 PM »
I do like the A-10, and I'm collecting data and 3 views for it as one of my next projects. I'm thinking electric for this one, retracts should be an option as well.

Hi John,

It is good to see that you and Bart have resurrected this thread.  Indeed, the A-10 would be an interesting project for a twin stunt ship.  It would certainly have a "striking" appearance.  However, I think it will present some insurmountable challenges to get a truly good performing stunt ship.  The basic configuration, though well configured for the mission of the A-10, really does not work well for CL semi-scale stunt.  The engines are in the back.  So that is  problem with weight distribution for a CL stunt ship.  There will need to be a lot of weight in the nose or an extra non-scale length of the nose and still use a lot of extra dead weight in the nose to get the thing to balance.  The A-10 gets away with this by mounting a canon in its nose the size of a Volkswagen.

More later.

Keith


Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #112 on: November 07, 2020, 09:07:18 AM »
Ducted fans in back...battery and electronics up front. Mmmmm.
Maybe those fans won't be so heavy. I have no experience with fans, electrickery, so I'm sure I humbly mentioned what y'all have already considered.

Oh, and I'm a sucker for the DH Mosquito/Comet.

Offline John Miller

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #113 on: November 07, 2020, 10:12:42 AM »
Thanks for the comments, Keith and Jim.

There are several "problems" to solve with the Wart Hog. I think they can be worked out and at least it may be fun, and interesting to try.

Keith mentions the big one, those engines mounted behind the wing. They are the reason I figure E-Power will be the best way to go. Figuring out how to balance the airframe without too much dead weight ballast is a challenge.

It appears that the nose length could allow a rather far forward battery mounting position, that may offset the weight of those engines. It should be that the electric motors should weigh less than IC engines and their fuel tanks. One could run pressure, or a fuel pump mounted in the forward fuselage, but the CG would change as the fuel is used.

Retracts, all being forward of the engines may also help with the balance.

I'm not sure about ducted fans. I've never run them, and don't know if they have what it takes for a Stunt ship. I do have an idea, a system borrowed from an RC design.

All these"problems", coupled with the downright super cool, nasty, looks combine to make me want to try.
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #114 on: November 07, 2020, 03:41:31 PM »
Thanks for the comments, Keith and Jim.

There are several "problems" to solve with the Wart Hog. I think they can be worked out and at least it may be fun, and interesting to try.

Retracts, all being forward of the engines may also help with the balance.

All these"problems", coupled with the downright super cool, nasty, looks combine to make me want to try.


Hi John,  The A-10 will definitely be a challenge for any form of a semi-scale stunt ship.  We mentioned the engines in the back.  With electric fans, at least the batteries can be in the nose to help with the balance.  Then, as the batteries run down, the only weight that is lost is the electrons the fans consume.  To use engines, to use the fuel tank location to solve the balance problem, this solution would only work at some portion of the flight as the fuel is consumed.

You mentioned that the main LG would at least be forward of the fans.  However, the main gear is still located behind the CG.  You could have the gear retract forward, but would do very little to help solve the CG issue.

Sorry for sounding so negative.  If there is a solution to make the A-10 a viable twin stunt ship with the engines in the back, you will be the one to do it.

When  this thread started several years ago, I mentioned I thought there were three twin engine aircraft that would be good candidates for a good looking stunt twin.  One was the deHavilland Hornet.  There is a model of this that was started years ago which is a serious attempt to get a competitive twin stunt ship that looks like the Hornet.   This has great scale like appearance and has the numbers to be a good performing stunter.  There has been some work to get it completed, but I do not know the status.

The second model on my list is the Grumman F7F Tigercat.  This one is hard to get into a CL stunt package with its big radial engines.  Windy Urtnowski did a great job of capturing the look of the Tigercat, and to me was the most attractive of the series of twins that he generated at the end of his competition stunt career.  I had the opportunity to fly Windy's Tigercat at a Muncie Nats one year.  It was a very comfortable airplane to fly and it showed why it was competitive.  I would recommend someone to build it if they could get Windy's plans.

The third model is the Mitsubishi Ki 83.  This was a twin developed in Japan near the end of WW II.  I worked up some sketches some time ago to do a stunt twin that would capture the appearance of the airplane.  I was using the size and dimensions of the Twin Pathfinder.  (John, I know you know a little bit about this airplane.  I flew Gordan's twin and it is just an outstanding stunt ship.)  Unfortunately, because of the configuration of the Ki 83, it does not translate well for a CL stunt ship.  The full size Ki 83 has relatively high aspect ratio wings, a long tail moment and a relatively small horizontal tail.  It also has the large radial engines.  When I tried to get those factors into something on the scale and configuration of a Twin Pathfinder, coupled with those round engine nacelles, it no longer had the appearance of the full scale Ki 83.  The project never went beyond those crude sketches.  One thing that allowed the Tigercat to be made into an attractive twin stunt ship is that the full scale Tigercat had a comparatively low aspect wing and was short coupled (like many US Navy fighter aircraft) which allows a stunt stunt version of the Tigercat to still capture the appearance of the full scale aircraft.

I have some good 3-views of the full scale Ki 83 if anyone is interested.
Keith

Offline Shorts,David

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #115 on: November 07, 2020, 04:54:03 PM »
Well, I have a kit on the shelf specifically for "someday" modifying it into an a-10. I wouldn't get fancy, just build it to see what works, and if it does work, then let someone who is a better builder than myself do it up right. But, now I'll loan out my idea if someone else wants to give it a whirl. Sig Twister. Fuselage backwards. Add a rib or two to the wing and relocate it. Hobby King has Dr. Thrust (or used to have them) in 35mm and 50mm fans. (from the little I know, I was going to get a pair of the 50mm) I think the 60+ fan would be too big. I'm sure it would fly, I'm not sure it could do an sort of pattern. Hopefully I'll tell you about it someday or you can tell me about it.

Offline John Miller

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #116 on: November 07, 2020, 07:46:37 PM »
Thanks, Colonel for your helpful and supportive comments.

Quote from Kieth "The third model is the Mitsubishi Ki 83. "

Yes, I've looked at that one several times. You showed me your sketch a few years back. The high aspect wing is a problem. The small tailplane can be enlarged to about 24% and still retain some of its scale looks. I believe that's allowed even in scale competition. You've identified The main stumbling blocks.
 
Still, a great looking plane that would look very good flying the pattern.

David, Ducted fans would look great, but the question is, will they work for PA? How much thrust can one, or a pair generate? Will that be enough, and is the power, similar to prop-driven power?
Need to build a concept model to try to get some answers.

John
« Last Edit: November 07, 2020, 11:42:08 PM by John Miller »
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #117 on: November 08, 2020, 10:20:16 PM »




Thisisone Ilikethlookoff . Sort of a Italian Whirlwindish, maybe . Perhaps .


Offline John Leidle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #118 on: November 18, 2020, 02:19:59 PM »
   Gary Nelson built a Mosquito I think a Jack Sheeks design.
 Might have ended up in Tim Wescott's basement. I watched him fly it he said he liked it. I ended up with Gary's "Sky Rocket" a Sheeks design at least I think  it is a Sky Rocket I just dug it out this morning...
         John L.

Offline Jim Carter

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #119 on: November 19, 2020, 01:59:23 PM »
Hummmmmm!  Now wouldn't a good response to the initial question depend upon how one defines "twin ... engined"??  Here's now my buddy Larry and I see it!!  LL~ LL~ LL~

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #120 on: November 19, 2020, 08:41:27 PM »
I get it...twins with lots of engines. Those are real beauties. Any flight video?

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #121 on: November 19, 2020, 09:12:23 PM »

Offline Jim Carter

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #122 on: November 20, 2020, 03:22:18 PM »
I get it...twins with lots of engines. Those are real beauties. Any flight video?
Yep!  But it's nothing all that spectacular ...jus' two videos of two B-29's making numerous laps with two pilots scared to death to make any mistakes concluding with two very nice landings each with only one engine of six still running!!   LL~ LL~ LL~

Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #123 on: November 20, 2020, 05:46:28 PM »
It looks like this thread has morphed into offshoots of twins with extra engines that might have slightly compromised stunt capabilities.  So here is a twin bomber with an extra pair of engines and another model with two operating engines.

Keith

Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #124 on: November 20, 2020, 06:31:40 PM »
Here is a twin with an auxiliary engine.

Keith

Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2020, 06:35:39 PM »
This one could really be done as a legitimate stunt ship and be close to scale.  It would be a lot of fuselage and nacelles for the wing area.  Might be able to squash this into Twin Pathfinder numbers.

Keith

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2020, 09:02:07 PM »
Did a profile Meteor NF 11 , on a Oriental wing , so 50 span, 57 length .

Came out at 60 Oz , even with a 3/8 x 1/2 vertical bearer h'wood , at the rudder hinge ( fwd of ) .
Was about 7 in. deep at the canopy , so imagine a four & a half foot 6 x 1/2 in plank perpendicular to the wing / lines . And a 60 ft radius line .
Its preferance was ' Straight Ahead ' , so the 15 thou S S lines took a bit of stress , stretchy stretchy , and 1/4 round delay in the Vert. 8 ,
So intersetion ? was at 3/4 loop , where it'd decide to head over your right ear,thus the imediate ' full up ' had it reapear somehow back forward of you .Allowing for the next 1/4 loop delay , grass cutting, etc .

So, the Moral of This Story , is if your building a profile equivilant of a 4 1/4 foot 6 inch plank , you just might need some fairly tough lines . The 18 thou. Laystrate seem pretty good .And 60 Oz. is fine for
the schedule . The 262 is good'n accurate F2B pattern , if your with it and on it with the timing etc . And line tensions good .  LL~


Was like this. Shoulda kept the sucker . Last seen in Qld
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 07:21:53 PM by Air Ministry . »

Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #127 on: November 21, 2020, 11:52:08 AM »
The Westland Whirlwind - another twin candidate.  High aspect ratio wing, big engine nacelles, and high horizontal tail position all combine to not fit into a practical semi scale stunt design.  Otherwise, an interesting design.

Keith

Offline Robert Whitley

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #128 on: November 21, 2020, 07:32:46 PM »
Except for the high placement of the horizontal stabilizer I think the OV 10 Bronco would be a goo candidate.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2020, 03:14:35 PM »
Except for its high aspect ratio wing which does not do very well for CL stunt, the Hughes XF-11 is a neat looking aircraft.  Steve Moon published a credible looking profile several years ago without such a high aspect ratio wing.

Keith

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2020, 07:19:05 PM »
Like the H1R , the XF-11 was conceived with two wings , long & short . Ive got scale drgs that show both , Though maybe the shorter one was never tried ? .

Online Robert Zambelli

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #131 on: November 23, 2020, 07:36:00 PM »
I believe one of these showed up at Muncie a few years back, competing in stunt with two SAITO 40s, counter rotating.

Dehaviland Comet.

Bob Z.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #132 on: Yesterday at 12:42:14 AM »
Like the H1R , the XF-11 was conceived with two wings , long & short . Ive got scale drgs that show both , Though maybe the shorter one was never tried ? .

What you are talking about is an entirely different and earlier Hughes design.  It was an all wood, twin engine, twin boom design, designated the D-2,  powered by PW R-2800 Twin Wasps.  Only provisional drawings of its configuration exist.   Its configuration was similar to the Northrup F-15.  It was a private venture by Hughes for the U.S. Army.  It was flown twice at a remote desert site in California and was destroyed in a hangar fire in 1944.

Keith

Offline Trostle

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #133 on: Yesterday at 01:08:06 AM »
I believe one of these showed up at Muncie a few years back, competing in stunt with two SAITO 40s, counter rotating.

Dehaviland Comet.

Bob Z.

Hi Bob,  I believe the airplane you are talking about that was in Muncie some time ago was a semi scale twin of a French design called a Caudron Typhon.  The model was flown by one of the members of the French team at the World Championships held in Muncie that year just prior to the Nats.  There is a photo of it in the Sep/Oct '04 issue of Stunt News.   This airplane has a configuration very similar to the deHavilland Comet.  The full size Typhon was used as a mail plane.

Keith

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #134 on: Yesterday at 09:33:36 PM »


I THOUGHT THIS'D HAPPEN .  ;) >:D

Definately the 11 , had a breif dig for the drawings last night. Theres a limit to how far to dig . Might hit China  :-\ Anyway, theyre there somewhere .
As I said , hypothetical perhaps, but shown on these fairly detailed top class 3 views . Donthold your breath, but saw em again a month back .
Gotta recal under wotits filed . :(



60 in. span, Steve Moon flying muddles plan . Two. 40 4S .

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Twin engine semi-scale stunt model. What's your choice??
« Reply #135 on: Yesterday at 09:34:56 PM »
Beringer Caudron Typhoon .



Eres Me de H 88 , Sanding four fings , progress is slow. Much better letting them ' kick off' De Gass fully, anyway. Not so much clogged sandpaper .



Mayve overstepped the mark a bit here . Over 60 Oz seems to be a bit of a wrestle , at times .
Smaller version was nice , sensative , light & steady on the wires . So theres always hope ! ..

Believe it or not , itll thread in through the front door there , If you adjust the seats right .  H^^


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