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Author Topic: Trophy Trainer redo  (Read 921 times)

Offline Brian Massey

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Trophy Trainer redo
« on: October 26, 2009, 05:18:21 PM »
I'm currently flying a Trophy Trainer built per plans. It flys well, but seems sluggish on the controls, especially the down control. I'm just starting to read the design forum and some questions have been raised.

A quick measurement off the plans suggests about 615 square inches (measured flat, not the curve) and an elevator/stabilizer surface area of about 96 square inches. That works out to 15.6% of the wing area. As I recall reading, we are looking more for 24-25%, is that right?

Then the moments; from the thust line to the LE is 11.5 inches; tail moment is 14 inches. In one of the posts I gathered that the nose moment can be altered to help balance the plane; if shortened, how will that affect the ability to turn? (Actually I love the look produced by the long nose.)

And then the offset wing. It's only offset by 1/2 inch, is that really required?

I would like to build another TT with a larger (24-25%) tail surface area, centered wing and perhaps a shorter (by only an inch or two) nose moment.

Has anyone out there made mods to a TT, or have ideas or suggestions?

Brian
While flying the pattern, my incompetence always exceeds my expectations.

AMA 55421
Madera, CA

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Trophy Trainer redo
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2009, 08:35:44 PM »
Hi Brian,

I know Ty has a lot of experience with the TT, so I will let me lead on the plane's characteristics.

A lot of trim changes can affect what you are describing, however, on the plane you have.  A lot of fliers fly nose heavy which while giving a rock steady feel, slows down the plane, all else fairly equal.  I took a few *lessons* from Bob Hunt and Billy Werwage and now fly with the planes a lot more rearward on the CG.  it takes a *little* getting use to, but feels much better once you have made the transition.  Control ratios and handle spacing also greatly affect the cornering.   Sometimes 1-1 is the best set up, sometimes more elevator is needed especially if the plane is fairly light wing loading.  It all depends.  I know that tred had about 1/4 inch or more droop inthe elevator relative to the flaps on his Final Edition (or whichever he had at the 2004 Worlds).  This helps to make the plane turn better outsides.

Don't give up on the TT you have until you have tried several things (one at a time) on trimming.  A good plane is made even better by properly trimming it out, as you well know.  From all accounts, a Trophy Trainer is a good flying profile, so design isn't much of a factor, trimming it to suit you is! ;D

Mongo
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Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Brian Massey

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Re: Trophy Trainer redo
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2009, 11:12:29 PM »
I built my TT from plans Tom Warden gave me back the late 60's; I have no idea how the plans have been changed since then  ::). I built two of them back then, one flew like a dream (as best as I can remember) and the other not so. This one weighs in at 53 oz and is powered by an LA46. I did not install adjustable leadouts, (wish I had) and I'm flying the plane somewhat nose heavy. I'm using an old EZ just handle from the 60's also . . . how fitting. Regarding the handle, when I execute outside squares (or any maneuver requiring a lot of down control, it almost feels like I have to fly the plane on the "down" line only to get the response I want. (A lot of wrist movement)

I do think many of my issues are from trim, or lack thereof. This is the first plane I've scratch built in about 40 years, and trust me when I say my skills are lacking.

When properly built and finished, what should be a good target weight? I just switched from '58 foot lines (eye to eye) to 62's; it did help. I can't believe how much I have to learn/relearn.

Any advice is sincerely welcome!

Brian
While flying the pattern, my incompetence always exceeds my expectations.

AMA 55421
Madera, CA

Offline afml

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Re: Trophy Trainer redo
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2009, 06:07:27 AM »
Hi Brian,

I had the same experiemce with a profile I am still flying.
After all the adjustments and trim tricks, all to no avail, HB~> I discovered the motor was NOT in line with the wing & stab!! LL~
So after leveling the plane with the wing & stab, I put a small bubble weight on the prop shaft and slightly enlarged the motors mounting holes till I could align the motor level with the wing & stab.
Now it turns the same both ways!! y1

"Tight Lines!"

Wes
Wes Eakin

Offline Brian Massey

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Re: Trophy Trainer redo
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2009, 09:55:30 AM »
Thanks Wes; I will check that out.

Brian
While flying the pattern, my incompetence always exceeds my expectations.

AMA 55421
Madera, CA


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