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Author Topic: Stunt Bi-planes  (Read 12106 times)

Offline Bill Bowmer

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Stunt Bi-planes
« on: January 12, 2007, 12:46:41 PM »

Has anyone had any success with bi-plane stunters........ I am working on a concept of a Starduster TOO with flaps on both wings and a fuselage mounted bellcrank to get the vertical C of G.

It will be quite large with ST60 power, profile for the proto type, then ???????.

I have seen some smaller aircraft fly like the 38 Special but look more like a sport flyer.

thanks for any input!!

Bill B

Offline Trostle

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2007, 03:03:56 PM »
Ae you wanting to build a biplane for sport flying or serious competition?

There have been a number of biplane designs published over the years.  Some of these could best be described as sport flyers, a few have been serious attempts to build a serious competition airplane.  Also, over the years, there have been articles written about biplane stunt design.


To my knowledge, in the recent past (like more than 20 years) there has not been any major, non-OTS stunt contest that has been won by a biplane.  There might be a reason.

I am excluding OTS.  There have been some notable OTS designs at VSC (and other contests) that are quite capable with the OTS pattern.  (I make reference to Bart Klapinski's Fleet Trainer and Don Hutchinson's Stearman and Moitle.)

Maybe there should be a rules proposal to have a stunt biplane only event.   ;)

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2007, 04:05:38 PM »
A subject near and dear to my heart...I've tinkered with a few, not with any resounding success. It's a whole different ball of wax, apparently--stunt standard numbers don't seem to work very well. 

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Willis Swindell

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2007, 04:36:01 PM »
My secret bi plane was going to change the face of stunt. As you have noticed nothing has changed.
Willis

Online peabody

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2007, 06:21:15 PM »
I'll try again....
The 38 Special...Dixon plans or Brodak kit, is a super flyer with the right power...like a .46....

This critter is a Steve Buso design that Johnny Duncan built....

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 07:44:49 PM »
I would defer to Claus Maikis (sp??) on competitive Bi-plane stunt designs.  AFAIK, he has had the most "success" with them.
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Offline Bill Bowmer

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2007, 05:38:06 AM »
Thanks everyone for the input!

This is my first time communicating on an internet forum so forgive me if the responses don't get where they should be. I am not sure how I got those sad faces on my message????? They should be Happy, after all it is control line we are talking about!!

Regarding some of the comments, it would be nice to come up with something that is some what competitive, maybe a bi-plane event would be an idea. I hope to move forward with the Starduster Too and see how it goes!

It seem flaps may be the answer to make it a stunter!

The nice looking Steve Buso model does not appear to have flaps ..I wonder how it flew?

PS.   I just found out about this web site from Kim Doherty one of our club members (Balsa Beavers - Toronto) it is great, thanks Kim.   

 
best regards

Bill B


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2007, 08:04:54 AM »
I built and competed with Jack Sheeks designed "Staggerwing" a few years ago.  It was a fun plane to build.  Also the flaps had been cut down in size on the plans.  I don't think flaps are neccessary.  Of course the staggerwing would turn insides different than outsides.  May have to get my "38 Special" out more often as it is fun to fly now with OS 40FP.  DOC Holliday
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Offline Ron Merrill

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2007, 10:28:28 AM »
I have played around with the Ultimate design, but to no avail  ''. I have been unable to get the weight down trying for a .60 plus size ship  ???. I have been told by people in the know that DRAG is the problem along with turbulence that develops between the wings, also the wings must be thin. So now i wait on one of the real stunt plane designers to come up with a "killer" design. Ron.  #^

Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2007, 01:23:13 AM »
I saw a recent bipe for F2B named "TWINI", French or Italian
in a foreign newsletter, but dont have a copy
looks like serious stunt plane
Vincent

Offline phil c

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2007, 08:58:35 AM »
Claus has a new website up.  Unfortunately I can't find the link, it's on another computer and doesn't even show up on google yet.  He has a couple biplane designs with pretty much full pattern capability, and quite a long article on what he's done.
phil Cartier

Offline c.maikis

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2007, 11:10:02 AM »
Biplanes are my favourites. I’ve built a lot of them, mostly fun airplanes. But I’ve also had a biplane which gave me quite some success in the contest circle.
Both airplanes ( see attachment ) are derivatives of my “Duetto” design. I felt that my design could be improved noticeably and gave advice about what to change. Result is the “Twini” design as built by Lutz Hetges of Germany and Thierry Sonier of France. It was Thierry who put my article in a French magazine. The same article is on my website  www.clacro.de  .
Mr. Minnesotamodeller, sorry I cannot quite agree with your statement  “…stunt standard numbers don’t seem to work well …”. If by “numbers” you simply mean dimensions in Centimetres or Inches you may be right. I prefer to interpret “numbers” as proportions, relations, and laws. If we apply these aspects to any design I cannot see why we shouldn’t stick to proven stunt experience.
I think the confusion about biplanes is a result of careless use of language. For instance, if someone flies a Flying Fool and reports that it flies “great” ( just because it does some nice level laps ) then this statement is nonsense.
In my eyes a great stunt ship is one of those great creations from Fancher, Walker, Wewage, McDonald, just to name a few.
A good stunter is some thing like a Nobler, Stiletto 35, Spacehound ( I’ve only mentioned some popular ones. Remember that the Nobler has been a World Championships winner! Hello Bob ).
A stunter is an airplane which can do the whole stunt pattern recognizably without problems and with some competence.
Everything else is below this level and I wouldn’t mention it when we talk about serious stunt.
I will agree when some people do not consider a bipe as a top precision aerobatics airplane. However I’m fully convinced that it is possible to design a biplane which fits right in the “good stunter” class. Those two fliers who have built the “Twini” may not be top fliers, but they flew just as well with the Twini as they did with their “normal” stunter. Which means: the “not top level” fliers will hardly  notice any difference, or at least they can adjust to the peculiarities of the bipe so that their performance will not suffer.
Please don’t get me wrong. I do not despice a Flying Fool ( actually I have a kit waiting for building ). But when we are talking about stunt, we should know what we mean and express accordingly. I rate my Duetto as a “good stunter”, the “Twini” is an improvement, and maybe it can be improved even more.
Yes, biplanes haven’t won many contests. But if only a very small number of fliers have biplanes it’s a just question of numbers how often we see one winning. And since the top fliers never use a biplane  -  bipes never win. It’s that simple.
By the way, bipes are quite popular  -  and winning  -  in RC  !
Regards,  claus


Offline Bill Little

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2007, 11:21:49 AM »
Thanks, Claus!  I knew you had a good bit of design experience with Bi-planes and had flown them in competition, hence my "deferment" to you in my post above. :D

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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 06:31:14 PM »
Anyone have thoughts on something that would work in OldTime stunt?  Is Sterling's Flying Fool old enough?  I would like to try Old Time and I have a thing for bipes.  No, it isn't logical.
Russell Shaffer
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Just North of the California border

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2007, 06:45:43 PM »
Anyone have thoughts on something that would work in OldTime stunt?  Is Sterling's Flying Fool old enough?  I would like to try Old Time and I have a thing for bipes.  No, it isn't logical.

The Flying Fool does not qualify.  Not old enough.

Don Hutcheerson and Bart Klapinski have both done well with Bi-planes in OTS. Their subjects were fairly scale, too.  A Stearman and Fleet, IIRC.  Jim Lee has had a Walton Hughes "Double Whammy" so maybe he will chime in here.  It's a pretty neat looking OTS bipe!
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2007, 11:39:15 AM »
.
Mr. Minnesotamodeller, sorry I cannot quite agree with your statement  “…stunt standard numbers don’t seem to work well …”. If by “numbers” you simply mean dimensions in Centimetres or Inches you may be right. I prefer to interpret “numbers” as proportions, relations, and laws. If we apply these aspects to any design I cannot see why we shouldn’t stick to proven stunt experience.

Regards,  claus



One example of my belief that biplane "numbers" must be adjusted from the monowing norm:  Wing area vs. tail area.  Will you stick with the 18 to 25 or 30% ratio?  If so you will need a HUGE tail since it's not bi, itself--50% or more of one wing of the plane.  But no, you don't need that huge tail, since the effective wing area of a biplane is somewhat less than its true WA--the wings interfere with one another to some degree, that degree depending on a lot of variables--aspect ratio, distance between the wings, stagger, incidence, etc. --Who knows those numbers?  And what ratio of wing to tail should we use? Who knows?  And that's just one example, among many that I'm sure I'm not even aware of. 

OK, here's another: Will you flap one wing, or both? And will you stick with the monowing ratio of flap-to-elevator movement, or with two sets of flaps must their movement be cut in half, maybe 1 to 3 or 4 flap to elevator?  I stick by my assertion:  It requires different (OK, call them "adjusted") numbers. And without doubt, the same applies to many others I don't know about.

Not trying to start a fight, just defending my position.   Bring on the counterpoint!  Maybe we'll all learn something.

--Ray
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2007, 12:42:58 PM »
IMHO when I look at the numbers for tail ratio I would probably be more concerned about the TVC (tail volume coefficient) than purely whether it were 18% , 20 % or whatever of the wing area. The best bipes I have seen flap both wings and still seem to carry the same ratios that a mono does, that being to flap in the neighborhood of 20 percent of the chord for each wing. I also feel that the flap to elevator ratio is more dependent upon the weight of the airplane than having two wings. I beleive that if you treat the wings (for purposes of TVC)  as thought they were one wing by adding their areas together and finding the cg by averaging the two together (to compensate for stagger) you should be in the ballpark.
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Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2007, 01:25:13 AM »
Where can I get plans for this Twini bipe please?

Vincent

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2007, 02:01:40 AM »
It is a good-looking airplane.  The high aspect ratio and narrow chord lets you keep the wings closer together. Looks more efficient and probably flies so too.  I could envision that one flying a very nice pattern.

--Ray
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2007, 02:14:13 AM »
Ray,

Claus has an excellent discussion of bipe design on his web site clacro.de  It is a must reading.

Claus is one of the most respected modelers in the world, and I am happy to say that I have had the privilege and honor to have spent time with him both at VSC and the NATS. He is one of the most creative and artistic people that I know.

He has more bipe knowlege than any I know. When he talks .... we all listen. His bipe design study talks about aspect ration, gap, flaps, CG locations, stagger, moments, etc. His reasoning is very sound and is certainly the best outline that is available today.

I have added a link to Claus's web site to my site, www.blueskymodels.net because I have so much respect for him.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 03:53:46 AM by Tom Niebuhr »
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2007, 08:09:32 AM »
Thanks, Tom.

--Ray
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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2007, 10:54:53 AM »
While working in Italy, I was fortunate to visit with Luciano Campostella, Massimo Semoli, Clemente Cappi and Alberto Maggi.

Luciano was flying a biplane of his own design and doing extremely well with it. I would place him with many expert flyers I seen and judged.
The plane was a pretty good size (I would guess around 48 inch span) and powered with an OS Surpass .52.
Flew a bit on the fast side but was surprisingly smooth in the corners.

Luciano is a multi-time European stunt champion.

I may have some pictures - if so, I'll post them.

Bob Z.

Offline c.maikis

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2007, 03:41:08 AM »
To Mr. Corwell:
A plan of the Twini should be available from  Thierry Sonier, Southern France. It's a very good plan. I'll try to send you a private Email, since I don't know if Thierry would like to have his address made public.
Here's a picture of Luciano Compostella' biplane "Falco". I have got a 8 x 12 in plan copy from Luciano. If somebody is interested I can send it to him ( quality is not very good in this reduced version.
claus

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2007, 08:17:55 AM »
I myself would also be interested in a set of plans for the "Twini".  DOC Holliday
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Offline GWH

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2007, 06:21:55 PM »
Interesting,

I have been thinking the same thing:

My design thoughts:

1) Large top wing( lift carry )
2) small bottom: very small, flat bottom airfoil: -75% of upper airfoil....Mainly to add break into the snap turns

Overpower my plane: by 35%: so a .32 sized would roughly be a .51 or so.

Problem with Bi-planes is Drag....hence why 99% of all modern stunt planes are Extra 300's or better.

Thanks
Gary
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Offline Don Hutchinson AMA5402

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2007, 08:36:49 PM »
In response to post #15, the Fleet biplane Bart K flew was a Chuck Hollinger design which I saw him (Chuck H) fly at the 1949 Nat's. Bart has won many high placings with this model. On the other hand, my Stearman biplanes are not OTS legal, however, Bart has scored over 500 points sans apearance points at a major Calif. contest with a borrowed one so they can be made to fly very well. I also built a "Moitle", the first model designed (circa 1944) to do inside and outside maneuvers and with an O.S. 35FP it was a great flyer, now residing in the AMA museum in Muncie. The Stearman's are very close to dead scale, flaps on the lower wing only and in the same position as the real thing's ailerons. Powered with an OS 40FP. I expect performance would increase considerably with a real stunt engine.

Don

Offline Glen Wearden

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2007, 11:27:11 PM »
In the mid-70's I ordered plans for a '60 size stunt bi-plane.  Can't really remember the name, but it seems like it was the "Biceps", or maybe something like "Big Bipe".  I was wondering if the first two pictures in Ray's post depict that plane.  I don't know what happened to the plans; they're possibly in one of the boxes I haven't unpacked since our last move 15 years ago!   Glen
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Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2007, 01:48:29 AM »
To Mr Maikis

Many thanks for your reply, the Email, Thierrys address
and the photo

but please call me Vincent or Vicente!!

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2007, 02:14:09 AM »
In the mid-70's I ordered plans for a '60 size stunt bi-plane.  Can't really remember the name, but it seems like it was the "Biceps", or maybe something like "Big Bipe".  I was wondering if the first two pictures in Ray's post depict that plane.  I don't know what happened to the plans; they're possibly in one of the boxes I haven't unpacked since our last move 15 years ago!   Glen

No, my "big bipe" is another of my original designs.  I drew it up for a friend a few years ago, who got it partially built and then got married, had a baby and gave the plane to me because he didn't have time to finish it.  Apparently neither do I since it's not progressed much further than what the pics depict.

--Ray
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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2007, 09:30:41 AM »
This one flies very well.  y1

It really draws attention with the gear retracted. %^

Bob Z.

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2007, 02:59:14 PM »
That staggerwing is gorgeous...I don't see any flaps.  Probably simplifies things a lot.  Beautiful.

S-a-a-a-y...I also don't see any leadout guides.  What gives?

--Ray
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Online James Lee

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2007, 03:42:54 PM »
Russell
In response to your question regarding OTS bipes...   The dmeco (deBolt) Bipes are very interesting, but suffer from NO capability for an outside loop.  They take about 80 degrees of arc to turn outside....   Yes, I've flown the Super Bipe in OTS, but it is a bit of a handful.   Lots of fun!!!   The plans claim a speed of about 100mph with a stove pipe Atwood...   In a 278" plane....   I had a front rotor K&B 40...   wind it up on 65' lines and let r rip....   ;D   ;D
Now, then, the Double Whammy is probably one of the better OTS bipes.  I've flown Don Hutchinson's Moitle and it is a LOT better!  But, the DW is a lot of fun and definately different looking.   Does a credible OTS pattern.  Due to the negative stagger it turns better outside than inside, but the difference is not tooo bad.  Some of that could be trimmed out.  Fox 35 is good power choice...   Mine is still hanging in the shop, ready to go...   
FWIW   ;D
Thanks
Jim
 

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2007, 07:26:08 PM »
James, where could I find plans for these airplanes?  I think Lone Star is missing a bet by not selling plans to consume their balsa. 
Russell Shaffer
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Just North of the California border

Online James Lee

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2007, 02:20:08 PM »
Russell
The last I knew, Fran Ptaskiewicz (sp?) in New York state was selling deBolt plans....   I don't know who has the plans for the DW...   Mine are buried somewhere!!!
Thanks
Jim 

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2007, 06:15:31 PM »
This is not a fair assumption; Some flyers are so good that it can be said they can fly a brick. Bart Klapinski, and Jim Lee, can fly two bricks on a string and make it look good. I have yet to try a vertical eight with my Over-Easy. I have watched both of these guys fly their bipes, and I say to myself; That can't be that easy. y1 y1
Jim Kraft

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2007, 09:33:54 AM »
Bob Z,

Your Beech is beautiful. Is that Jack's design or is it all new?
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Offline Gordon Tarbell

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2007, 10:34:08 AM »
Can you show pictures of this Biceps?
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Offline rob biddle

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2007, 10:40:23 PM »
  G'day Ty,
 The Biceps is definately a gorgeous looking model, I'd love to build one myself someday.
 Cheers, Rob.

Robert Biddle

Offline Glen Wearden

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2007, 08:03:36 AM »
Hi,Ty.  Hope you're feeling better.  If the "Biceps" is the one, and it sounds like it is, that I had the plans for, it is truly a monster.  My plans were to use a Merco 61, dual plug, in it.  Where did you get the plans?   Glen
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Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2007, 10:00:54 AM »
Ray, Tom - thanks for the kind words on the Staggerwing.

It is entirely my own design and very complicated.

Ray - the reason you did not see the leadouts is that I had just finished clearing it and I had them tucked inside.

The plane is take-apart and the leadout guide is removeable/adjustable.

I have been flying it with my own design retract system controlled by a Z-tron but I have designed a new system.
Said system employs a cam that controls both the retracts and throttle. The cam is driven by a two speed motor and is mechanically programmable.

Should be ready by spring.

Bob Z.

Offline Ron Merrill

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2007, 10:18:13 AM »
Glenn, i believe you can get Bycep plans from Tom Dixon,if memory serves. ??? Ron.

Offline Bill Gruby

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2007, 09:26:09 AM »
Ty;

Hope you are feeling better these days and able to get around a little? Here is a little more info on the Bi Ceps Bipe.
Designer----Don Yearout
Original engine----Fox .59
Span------50"

Appeared as an article in AAM 4/69

Tom Dixon has plans---says it's Classic legal. Look under Modern era plans---1964-?

http://members.tripod.com/~tomdixon/tomdixon.htm

If anyone wants the plans and has trouble getting them email me and I'll see what I can do about getting mine copied.

Bill Gruby   Z@@ZZZ Z@@ZZZ Z@@ZZZ
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2007, 11:06:02 AM »
I have the BiCeps plans, and a copy of the article.
www.blueskymodels.net
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Offline Ron Merrill

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2007, 03:16:57 PM »
Tom, why not kit the Biceps or some other biplane? Is there no market to support one. ??? Ron.

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2007, 03:40:28 PM »
Interesting,

I have been thinking the same thing:

My design thoughts:

1) Large top wing( lift carry )
2) small bottom: very small, flat bottom airfoil: -75% of upper airfoil....Mainly to add break into the snap turns

Overpower my plane: by 35%: so a .32 sized would roughly be a .51 or so.

Problem with Bi-planes is Drag....hence why 99% of all modern stunt planes are Extra 300's or better.

Thanks
Gary


I still fly my biplane in "stunt" competition. Not all of us have the 125K + necessary to buy a monoplane.

Although in full sized acro the emphasis became long vertical lines and the necessity to produce lower drag airplanes, C/L stunt has no such parallel. The models only go so far in any plane as they fly in a hemisphere. The engines we have available will produce a package not affected by the drag of an additional wing. Trimming the biplane will always be the determining factor in it's viability from here on out.

Walter Hicks

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2007, 09:54:11 PM »
Hi Everyone,

    I built and flew a Biceps in 1989 . St .60. I had Tanks Hanger Laser cut me a kit last year. The Original

plans are much better than Tom Dixons although I did build the first one from Dixons plans.

Mine was 64oz. Relatively easy to build , if you scratch build be prepared to make tons of ribs and half ribs!

This is a fun plane to fly and is Classic legal. Get the original construction article which is quite good.

I will be using the New Fox .60 Stunt in my new Biceps. You need at least a 13" prop as this plane has lots

of drag. It has an unusually thick wing. Very cool looking plane .

Offline c.maikis

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2007, 01:02:42 PM »
Hello Walter,
you are the first who says he has flown a Biceps. I would really like to know how this airplane flies.
All I have is the small drawing in the Pampa Classic airplane book. Judging from the drawing I think it should make a decent stunt model. I don't think the airfoil is too thick. And the proportions seem to look just right. I do not intend to build this model. But since there seems to be some interest in biplanes, it would be nice to know how this one flies. Maybe you can give some precise information about the flying qualities ( like: can it do the whole stunt schedule? ). This should be a welcome information for all biplane lovers, and the plan is easily available.
There was also a very nice biplane design called "Mac the Bipe", available from Hobby Helpers long ago ( I don't know the designer ). A somewhat complicated construction, but maybe a good flyer. If anybody knows about this airplane it would be nice to see a comment in this forum.
Regards,  claus

Offline Artur Caban

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2007, 04:25:06 PM »
There you are a TRAMP biplane stunter designed by Wiesław Schier from Poland probably between 50 and 60' .
Curiosity of this plane: it fly as a various configurations: a bilane, high - wing or low - wing.
Regards-
Artur.

Offline Phil Bare

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2007, 06:39:53 AM »
Just a few thoughts on biplanes.....and stunt.......both full sized and models...
Back in the 40s, a guy by the name of Curtis Pitts designed a little airplane called the Pitts Special, said plane dominated the arena of aerobatic competition for years and if the emphasis on long straight lines had not come about, the Pitts Special would still be dominate.....any way, it is my contention that a well built (straight and true) model of the Pitts special (round wing) could be a very competative airplane in the world of stunt. 100% scale in outline and volums.....Build it light and for .60 engines...
Just an idea......Oh, and BTW, there are plenty of other bipes (full scale) that would make great stunt ships.....all of the stunt manuvers are pretty much round, no long straight lines to speak of, biplanes should be a natural with their (constant speed) advantages and relativly light wing loading.......just some musings......any ideas?  Phil

Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2007, 01:19:54 AM »
To Mr Claus Maikis and all

I now have the plan of the Twinni

excellent plane, rapid service ,right price

now in my queue for building late this year ( I hope!!)

Many thanks for your help

Vincent

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2007, 07:59:55 PM »
To Mr. Corwell:
A plan of the Twini should be available from  Thierry Sonier, Southern France. It's a very good plan. I'll try to send you a private Email, since I don't know if Thierry would like to have his address made public.
Here's a picture of Luciano Compostella' biplane "Falco". I have got a 8 x 12 in plan copy from Luciano. If somebody is interested I can send it to him ( quality is not very good in this reduced version.
claus
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2007, 02:31:28 AM »
Could Mr. Schier possibly have made that Tramp any more complex?  I am in awe...

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Offline De Hill

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2007, 10:31:16 AM »
An Old Time Stunt biplane that hasn't been mentioned is the "Over Easy". It was kitted by Johnnie Casburn in the late 1940's. It was a profile biplane with about a 36" span, which would do a creditable job of the OTS pattern. Lew Woolard used to fly one at the Vintage Stunt Championships with a Super Cyclone .60 on ignition.

Would it fly as good as a 1951 Nobler or an All America Senior?    NO!

It would fly as good as an overweight Ringmaster, though.
De Hill

Online James Lee

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2007, 03:17:31 PM »
Claus
It is nice to see your comments on SH.   ;D   Many years ago one of our club members built your Duetto.  Todd and I both flew it several times and were VERY impressed!
I've been trying to remember, But several years ago there were several Bipes done by a Brit that looked interesting...  Dancing Girl springs to mind but don't know if that is correct....   ???
Thanks for your comments on the Biplanes!  Hope to see you at VSC again.   ;D
Jim

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2007, 01:49:59 PM »
I remember Big Art built a Casburn SE-5A profile that was astounding.  It would easily out-pattern a Ringmaster, probably came closest to a un-flapped Magician or similar bird.  Did not really have any vices, I KNOW I have campaigned full-stunters that did not fly as well!  As I recall the outline is pretty close to scale, with equal sized wings and relatively thin airfoil, no flaps.  If I was building a Bipe for stunt I would use that one as my starting point.

He has re-covered it at least two times since the original build and I think it is still RTF some 30+ years after the first build!
Denny Adamisin
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Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2007, 01:41:05 AM »
Don't even bother cutting the kit! Get a "short kit" from Kyke at Tank's Hangar. I believe mine was $85, and it fills a large kit box! Really nice workmanshit!

(Too many irons; not enough fire)

Ralph Wenzel
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Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2007, 02:21:20 AM »
Ralph, you might want to edit your post. You mispelled "workmanship"

I would not point this out any other time. Just check and see what I mean.

Robert
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Stunt Bi-planes
« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2007, 03:43:39 AM »
Freudian slip...???
--Ray 
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