You didn't narrow it down much, eh?

Be sure you at least look at the Williams Bearcat and also the Shameless. Of course, if you want to go small(er), that's a whole different list.

My nickel,  (there's been inflation....)

The Divot

Motoman, that is a nice looking plane. What engine set up are you running on it?

I haven't flown it, but by reputation -- the Imitation.  Big, versatile, lots of "wow" from people who should know.

Or read Ted Fancher's original article on Fancherization -- his point wasn't to make the Fancherized Twister (he did that just to illustrate his point).  His point was that you can take any old profile kit and give it "modern" numbers and it'll fly better; then you can give it the side profile you want and it'll look better.  When I Fancherized my Twister, I also made it look like a Genesis from the side -- and even though it's porky (due to my building skills at the time), it flies great.

I haven't flown it, but by reputation -- the Imitation.  Big, versatile, lots of "wow" from people who should know.

Or read Ted Fancher's original article on Fancherization -- his point wasn't to make the Fancherized Twister (he did that just to illustrate his point).  His point was that you can take any old profile kit and give it "modern" numbers and it'll fly better; then you can give it the side profile you want and it'll look better.  When I Fancherized my Twister, I also made it look like a Genesis from the side -- and even though it's porky (due to my building skills at the time), it flies great.

It is worth noting that Ted did not pick the Yak-9 or a Ringmaster to prove his point.  He picked a plane that was quality pattern capable out of the box and made it better.  The twister begged to be Fancherized, teh others begged to stay on the kit rack..  Losing my Twister in our fire was probably the worst thing that I lost.  Sure the PA ships hurt but the Twister was like an old pair of shoes.  No matter what the circumstances I knew I was going to have fun if I had my Twister with me.  Thanks Mike for designing it and Thanks Ted for making it better.  Sorry to digress but the lockdown has me going a bit batty since I have nothing to fly and no place to build.  I think several civil rights groups would consider this torture.

Ken

Check out the Sakitumi.

Check out the Sakitumi.

Here they fly great but they look like somebody "Socked it to em" 

If you can't get a Twister then Motorman's plan is great.  Just remember that it will be a profile and it will do something weird every now and then just because it can.

Ken

Gordan Delaney's Pathfinder Two (or is it Too?). 

I definitely like the magician. What do you think about a profile nobler?

My favorite is the Primary Force with an OS LA .25 on 015 X 60"(center of handle to center of plane).

John,

Thanks for specifying "(center of handle to center of plane)."   When I was a kid I just called lines "sixty foot lines" because that's what the Sullivan packaging said they were.  I've since learned there are two ways to measure line length, a) center of handle to center of the plane, and b) the length of the lines by themselves and unless a person specifies which way he measured when he gives the line length, I won't know for sure what he means.

Now, if someone says they are using 70 foot lines, it means they are measuring from center of the handle to the center of the center of the plane or else they are over the 70 foot line rule (as I understand the rules).

Also, I inherited a Primary Force which was an ARF.  This one has a LA .40 with stock OS 3030 muffler.  So, I imagine it balances further forward than one with a LA .25.  Do you have an ARF or do you have a set of plans that shows where the Center of Gravity should be?  If yours is an ARF would you mind checking where it balances and let me know.  Thanks, John.

Joe Ed Pederson
Cuba, MO

 Im partial to the Twister. Easy to build, flies great, easy to repair. Here are a few of mine...Gene

I reasoned that since the Cadet would be electric powered and didn’t require a covering that was fuel proof, .2 ounce/cubic foot carbon mat could be substituted for the plastic film, and it could be attached to the raw form core using water-thinned Titebond II glue. The Joe Nall Cadets (five of them, built in one week by a very dedicated group!) were the first models to get this treatment.

After the carbon was applied with the Titebond II glue and allowed to dry, I sanded the surface smooth using #320 grit sandpaper. The result was a wing that was extremely stiff and rigid. They flew great, too, and quite a few people who had graduated from the beginner model on hand at the fly-in learned to do simple maneuvers with the Cadets. Three of the five Cadets survived the fly-in and at least one of them has been successfully campaigned in Intermediate contests over the past few years.


Again, the above was posted to explain the Lost-Sheeting method of covering a foam core. Note: this process only works for an electric powered model as the glow fuel residue would soon soak through the carbon and Titebond glue.\

   Just like Ron St Jean, except for carbon fiber instead of silkspan! Neat idea, it has real potential.

     St. Jean found that adding Knox gelatin to the glue/water sealed it well enough to put dope over it, in at least small quantities. I tried that and it mostly "worked", but with some pinholes (with predictable effects) here and there. It was more-or-less acceptable to me at the time. I made several airplanes and other like devices like a foam flying saucer, turned from 1 LB foam on a faceplate lathe*. I used the glue/water/Knox gelatin to isolate the laminations  (5 layers of 1" foam) from the Weldwood contact cement I had to use to hold it together. That stuff is a universal solvent for foam, but the gelatin made it acceptable. I tried it without the gelatin, just glue/water and the foam just disappeared.

    Worth a try, at least.

    Brett

   * this made an amazing mess of foam beads that we never got rid of for the next year and a half we lived there. At one point it was a little mountain up to my knees. Try to vacuum it up, OK for a while, it got most of it, but we spent the next year chasing individual beads around. That was 45 years ago, and I guarantee that if you go into the garage at 1410 Lenore Drive in Benton, AR, and look in the corners, there will be some foam beads.

Hi Brett:

Yeah, I tried the silkspan route many years ago with results similar to yours. The carbon is very easy to work with and accepts the thinned Titebond II glue very well. Obviously the carbon mat is more expensive than silk span (although I've heard horror stories about how much a sheet of silkspan is going for online...), but you won't need to take out a mortgage to get enough to do several wings.

   Try the gelatin thing, see if it makes it reasonably non-porous. If it was me, I would put on a skim/pinhole filler of thinned Timbermate wood filler, to get the last few holes.  But try it on scrap!

   Carbon is going to be easier to find and cheaper soon enough, if you don't already have lifetime supplies.

    Brett

Bob,

Question about bellcrank mounting on your new plane.  Did you use a center rib to hold the bellcrank or did you install the bellcrank in the center spar?

Gene, love the Twisters. I just finished my Twister wing tonight. They are so much fun to build...

Hi Bob!  Thanks for the Prowler info. Scotty was incredibly helpful to everyone.  Sad to lose another “good guy”. Please keep me in mind if you draw up a full fuse Prowler; that sounds like an outstanding project!

Found a ' North Sails ' 1/2 x 3/8 in. yacht sail batten . Maybe 1/8 wall . Good for a longitudeinal stiffener, as theres a few tons load on say a 30 foot yacht sail .
Used part of it on a Goodyear . A bit weighty , but should stand the catches o.k.



Most of the later p[ommy goodyears have laminated fuselages , 1/2 square strips & 1/2 x 1/8 spruce strips .
If you want something pretty tough , might be the go . . .

Splits at wing centerline , so easy to set up straight & true .
Though once there was superb naturally grown SOLARBO timber , where you could find the odd sheet of really stiff hard light wood , or more even .
Current Balsa is no generally fit for evn boats . Or fence pailings . Incompetant rackateers appear to know ZILCH about growwing & milling it .
Some absolute trash about , and WAY OVERPRICED in Aus . About $ 4 for a sheet of 3 x 36 1/16th sheet , and it mostly rubbish .

Hi again, Brent:

Here are a couple of photos of the internals of the Joe Nall Cadet wing that show the bellcrank mount on the center rib...

For what Brent wants, that's probably perfect.

For real beginners, if you put the bellcrank on the outside of a combat foam wing then you end up with something as easy to build, maintain, and repair as an all-sheet plane.  The plane in this picture was post-holed over a dozen times before I retired it, often with one or both wing panels falling off completely; repairs usually only took minutes.

............
After the carbon was applied with the Titebond II glue and allowed to dry, I sanded the surface smooth using #320 grit sandpaper. The result was a wing that was extremely stiff and rigid. They flew great, too, and quite a few people who had graduated from the beginner model on hand at the fly-in learned to do simple maneuvers with the Cadets. Three of the five Cadets survived the fly-in and at least one of them has been successfully campaigned in Intermediate contests over the past few years.......

Stay safe - Bob Hunt

There are lots of variation of this style of construction.  Carpenter's glue such as Tite-Bond or white glue are not water proof.  Don't let the plane get caught outside in a rain storm!
Using water-based polyurethane varnish thinned with 10-50% with alcohol will be completely waterproof.  2 coats should completely fill a light weight matte.  The resins in the varnish stiffen the matte more than the soft polymers in carpenter's glue.

One problem with skipping the film someplace between layers is that a matte such as silkspan or carbon fiber is very subject to punctures from sharp objects.  An iron on film underlayer or top layer protects the finish a lot!.

Phil Cartier(in virus heaven)

Just a related aside- silkspan over foam can be covered with a light weigh film, and then painted as needed.  If it gets a final light coat of autobody clear the finish will weigh about the same as any contest grade finish.

Not sure of the area. The wing I think is 48” long? The plane is a little small then a Nobler. We had. Cobra 2826 in it, but only for the nose weight. 2820 could easily fly it and maybe even a 2814. His was not super light it was about 44 ozs. I think an LA 25 would have no problem pulling it. I have many that had 40 size engines on them.