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Author Topic: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.  (Read 997 times)

Offline Perry Rose

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Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« on: August 10, 2020, 08:28:52 AM »
  Did the prototype Ringmaster have the polywog airfoil or did Sterling create that to save balsa? If not what airfoil did Kania use for the prototype?
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
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Offline bob whitney

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2020, 10:52:38 AM »
i dont ever remember seeing a Sterling Ringmaster with polywag airfoil

one of the Chief's had a polywag airfoil
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2020, 01:16:32 PM »
i dont ever remember seeing a Sterling Ringmaster with polywag airfoil

one of the Chief's had a polywag airfoil

  The inner ribs on the Ringmaster S1 are pollywogs, seemingly to fit existing tapered trailing edge stock, and the concavity goes away as you go toward the tips. I doubt it had anything to do with saving balsa, because the die patterns don't seem to take advantage of it.


   Brett

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2020, 07:17:11 AM »
Am I to believe that no plans or evidence exists as to the original airfoil used on the Ringmaster prototype? If not we could use any airfoil and be legal for OTS.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.
The worst part of growing old is remembering when you were young.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2020, 11:11:54 AM »
It is sometimes required to "fill in the blanks" on some OTS designs, unless authentic published plans exist.  Case in point: the NOBLER seems to have several "authentic" versions, which are permitted in OTS events.  Even GMA reported that he drew up NOBLER plans "from memory" because the original model was in storage somewhere else..

Many very early designs have documentation which could come into question.  Rather than dismiss the design as unworthy of OTS, some guesswork should be permitted, as long as it is done in the spirit of the event, and keeping with design ideas of the period.
"Growing old is easy.
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Online Trostle

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2020, 04:43:16 PM »
Am I to believe that no plans or evidence exists as to the original airfoil used on the Ringmaster prototype? If not we could use any airfoil and be legal for OTS.

If you and any contest directors that you encounter feel that an obvious deviation from what is generally accepted as Ringmaster "airfoils" complies "with the spirit of the event" as suggested by the PAMPA OTS rules, then feel free to do so.  Some officials might feel otherwise.

Any obvious deviation from the generally accepted Ringmaster airfoil probably would or should not be acceptable for a "Ringmaster Only" event.

One question comes to mind.  Unless you plan to fly only for sport, why bother?

If you are looking for something that flies better than a stock Ringmaster, build something else.

However, "stock" Ringmasters can be built to fly very well.  Look at what the West Coast guys and what Joe Gilbert have done with their stock Ringmasters with real stock Ringmaster airfoils.

Keith

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2020, 08:08:16 PM »
If you are looking for something that flies better than a stock Ringmaster, build something else.

I think this profundity can be applied to many forms of human endeavor.  All I can think of now, though, is jazz, which Jim Aron is trying unsuccessfully to get me to appreciate.  Namely, if a song isn't good enough for you as written, play something else.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2020, 08:59:56 PM »
All I can think of now, though, is jazz, which Jim Aron is trying unsuccessfully to get me to appreciate.  Namely, if a song isn't good enough for you as written, play something else.

   That is a real conundrum, given that (arguably) the best jazz album of all time was "written", if you could call it that, in the car on the way to the studio, and was recorded in one or two takes, primarily with sight reading or improvisation. Essentially, they had some chords that Miles Davis happened to like, he wrote them down, play a few bars, and the rest of them just made it up as they went along. That kind of virtuosity happens *very rarely*. Lots of them are like that, Paul Desmond's "Le Souk" solo was only recorded once, near as I can tell, and no one even attempts to match it, it is unique and untouchable. I just wish they had a decent tape recorder.

      Think of it this way - the entire group is Mozart, why bother writing it down first? That's also why most jazz records (and in fact, most records of any type) are crap.

    Brett

Offline Pat Johnston

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2021, 06:44:03 PM »
Back to the RM airfoil. I redrew the full set of plans for the Ringmaster which has been used by RSM, Brodak, BOTR (Brothers of the Ring<me>), and others. When I did the drawings I had an original Ringmaster in hand. The really interesting thing about the rib airfoils is that #8 rib was measurably wider at the leading edge juncture than the rest of the ribs. Obviously I corrected that funky little anomaly. Now if a person chooses to be absolutely true to fidelity, then the #8 rib needs to be about a 1/16 wider at the nose. Of course this is silly and a good example of the manufacturer (Sterling) slightly botching the kit. I suppose that a person can consider old kits are pretty close to correct, but still only close. That said, get close enough and enjoy flying the bejebers out of it.
Pat Johnston
Idaho Skunk Works

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Matt Kania's Ringmaster prototype.
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2021, 09:23:25 PM »
   I'm willing to bet that there wasn't a prototype per say. The way Kania was cranking designs out for Megow, Sterling and others, I'll bet that it was designed on a Monday night, built Tuesday through Friday, test flown once on Saturday or Sunday, and if it flew at all, went into production on Monday. From what I have read and can read between the lines in some magazines, back then you needed to get it to market as fast as possible. Profit margins were very, very narrow, and the sooner you got it to market, and the more you sold, the sooner you started to make money. By the time the Ringmaster came out, Kania pretty much knew what he was doing with design at that time and could get it right the first time, so why waste time testing and refining?   I think an example of what I'm talking about is the American Junior FireCat. There was a question as to whether it was OTS legal or not, because no one could find any ads for it before 1953. I need to find my copy of the Bob Smurthwaite letter that made the rounds in the last 20 years or so, and in it he explained that the model did exist before December 1952, and rather than wait for any magazine ads to hit the stands before introducing the kit, he was ordered to load up as many as they could get in his car and head to the end of the year hobby industry show and sell them. I may have something mixed up in that, but I think that was basically it. To add to that, I think some one has mentioned through the years that if you look closely, the FireCat has just about the same "numbers" as the Ringmaster and the design was ripped off from Sterling. There might be something about that in the letter also. I don't know if that file survived the move from one computer to the next here, so if someone else has a copy of it, throw it up here for us to enjoy that little piece of history.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)


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