stunthanger.com
Design => Stunt design => Topic started by: Air Ministry . on December 07, 2019, 08:51:31 PM
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From Elsewhere .
" My MB 3 had V small scale tailplane . 10 ton loading .
Kicked in more elevator after the first session . And noseweight .
I am interested in what your MB 3 looked like.
Keith "
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Not neccesarilly looking for ' advice ' . But perceptions would be welcomed anyway . And discusion . Such as Itll never work & itll never fly .
If youve any WORKS drawings of the M B 3 , we wouldnt be complaining .
Started with a plastic 1/48 self made ill fated thing in 96 . Tho had been aware of the MB series in the 70s .
The plasticad wings turned to cabbage boiling them to soften . Had been a P I A all the 18 months of sporadic development . So relieved to trash it.
Did the Flying one around 2000 / 2002 somewhere . G-51 in it , and tried a 80 K&B 40 with pumper fuel set up .
As it was windy on the penisular .Severere buffeting and 'G's in big rotors would overwhelm the efforts at times .
The K&B with the 10 x 4 three blade had more bite , in those circumstance .
The G-51 wasnt suite to the 10 x 4 . Usually ran the 10 x 6 three blade on that . tho in the same weight 63 span ' Spitfire ' .
Have now a variety of engines . Likely Como 51 & 40 , as the short nose suits their weight , and theyre ' four inch pitch ' engines .
Have a spare new spinner to match the original flat back 3 inch dia. one from the last ship .
It never hit the deck . Tho the new one will definately be fitted with Als Rudder device ! .
(https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/data/attachments/27/27517-46f7655fe6e8c052804cd8d65910c7ae.jpg)
I think this is someones imagining of a ' M B 4 ' . Think a recent od British Prototypes book had a authentic sketch .
(https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/data/attachments/27/27590-52c87b1d68900788648d2b4008890ae9.jpg)
Maybe this is it .
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Heres some info on the MB 3 .
(https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/martin-baker-mb3-rear.jpg)
https://oldmachinepress.com/2016/06/11/martin-baker-mb3-fighter/
And a few of the ' FIVE ' , for those that way inclined .Some showing M B # empenage originally fitted .
https://hushkit.net/2019/01/02/almost-the-greatest-fighter-of-world-war-ii-the-martin-baker-mb5/
(https://hushkit.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/martin-baker-mb5-at-chalgrove-4.jpg?w=830)
The Chief .
(https://hushkit.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/martin-baker-mb5-martin.jpg?w=830)
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Mine was pretty much THIS . But with Fuse. X - sections ( bulk ) at 80% of the rest . Probably 3:2 control ratio , or a touch more.
Likely 45 flap 60 deg. elevator ! Could give you grief top off the hourglass in a gale .
Run back & catch it zero feet at 10 or 11 oclock to upwind . Then . . .
If you didnt imediately drop the nose - as in if it was fighting for airspeed the wind 'd lift itand it'd shoot 180 degrees across the circle.
Fast footwork - and ' appropriate ' FULL control imput peselected sprinting opposite the aircrafts trgectory .
LL~ LL~
And we do this to relax . !
But again , no scapes on the paint . It was chopped to just the flying sufaces - awaiting a lighter improved fuselage . But passed on
during a house move . Unsullied & unbroken .
The G -51 output was neccesary for those conditions . Americas Cup in same area repeatedly called off / postponed , whenj 20 plus knots.
And they call themselves sailors ! Problem was the Boats would colapse . Call THEM boats ! ? . Oh Well .
You might inspire me to get it underway . Will need a plug at least for the curved three planes fuse rear underside .
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Works G.A. of the MB 3 .
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uFuQbZ0L5Bo/S-VS463lwiI/AAAAAAAAAKI/-hrhSrq2tVY/w569-h427-no/Martin+Baker+MB3+Plan+View+3.JPG)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uFuQbZ0L5Bo/S-VS463lwiI/AAAAAAAAAKI/-hrhSrq2tVY/w569-h427-no/Martin+Baker+MB3+Plan+View+3.JPG
Looks like these works record photos now need a Google ' Log In ' .
https://plus.google.com/photos/109207897425941419378/albums/5468866842875915761?banner=pwa
A few are posted here , along with a picture of one of Frank McMillans M B 5 's .
http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10493&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=15&sid=7ce52b18498f1b8c010320a1979961ba
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It's unclear what you're asking. This is the stunt design forum, so the proper answer is to design a good stunt plane and then make it look like your scale subject. Don't wander off of stunt "numbers" to any great extent, or you'll be building a semi-stunt scale plane, not a semi-scale stunt plane.
If you've misplaced this thread and you're building a scale plane, then stick to scale outlines and deal with the aerodynamic consequences. In this case, that means a rather narrow allowable CG range, and possibly a dicy tradeoff between enough elevator authority to land slowly (setting your forward CG limit) and an aircraft that's too responsive in the air (setting your rearward CG limit).
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I am very familiar with the Martin Baker aircraft. My MB 5 won Precision Scale at the 2000 US Nationals and have collected a file drawer full of documentation on these aircraft. I am now in the process of building a semi-scale version of the MB 5, which will be a bit bigger than the two models that Frank McMillan built several years ago that were inspired by the work of Al Rabe whom we have had a close relationship over the years.
I started on a sport scale version of the MB 3 a number of years ago, but lost interest when I found out that the MB 3 never had a bubble canopy like has been shown in some drawings and a few retouched photos. The original MB-3 had the Napier Saber engine and the turtle deck behind the canopy as shown in one of your drawings.
I was just wondering what your stunt version of the MB 3 looked like.
Keith
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More on the MB 5. This model is in the AMA museum in Muncie.
Also shows Franks semi scale MB 5 from several years ago.
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Some showing M B # empenage originally fitted .
Just for the record, the MB 5 was fitted with three different vertical tail configurations, two different horizontal tails, two different propeller/spinner assemblies, and had a slightly modified canopy installation configuration during its brief existence.
Keith
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Yep ; kieth . Im pretty much got the M B 3 sussed . Have to presume the under rear fuselage is semi circular .
Theres a few photos that almost show it . But if you had DOCUMENTATION of the M B 3 in the bulkhead dept .
Particularly rear , it could be definitive .
Not sure i will persevere , as theres many other projects , let alone in the model aeroplanes .
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In fact , youve got /(had ) the only picture of My MB 3 known to humanity . !I sent over a decade or two ago .
Was in the background of a poor quality ( disposable camera ) poor photograph of something else . Or three planes .
Looked more like a projectile - End on to wing didnt show diheadral , low slung with the 80 % ? height undercarrage .
This plane would have scored a strong ZERO at Concours . or a weak ONE . Likely relegated to the carpark area .
Was Humbrol ( fuel proof my #** ) enamel . So scale colours .& markings . Grey undersurfaces . No Guns .
With the G-51 ( alowed to rev ) thheyre said to out ST a 60 , in grunt . This thing weighed Two Kilo . 71 Oz .
51 Span . Al's P-51 Mk V airfoil . Fully sheeted . Was built from the less better donated wood from under the rafters
in a tin shed , thatd been there for years .
COMPARISON to P.J.s Stalker 61 Gieske Noblr is inevitable . I only ( closly ) observed this two flights at Albury .
Where it was Temp in the 30s C. So Air Thin .
Highly pertinant to the fact the MB3 IMPROVED when there was say 10 Knots wind .Or More .
But Costal. Sea Level . around 16 to 20 Deg.C. while I flew it .
Lap times past 5.2 didnt work . Realy 5.0 was the realisticly slowest. 4.5 when blowing . Itd do that itself , no need to needle.
O.K. they both , in a hard square bottom , would drag their ass for half the leg . The nobler worse / longer .
I didnt have any worries with eggy loops with this ,
Probably the Ace Fearless pilot LL~ was the key element there . !
Had a tendency to feel like itd fall on you in the O.H. 8s , if there wasnt the airspeed .
With the weight and power , a helmet was often a recurring thought , as to sensable equipment .
Generally a well behaved responsive aircraft , operating inside its flight envelope . Flyable IF you were onto it, sharp ,
and it had your undivided attention . Good training for the High A/R 72 in Mewgull , of the same weight .
The Spinner fits THAT too .A more likely candidate for the short list .
Original Drawings below . Found a cleaner tracing further through .As I said , Scale - 80% Fuse X-section/ bulk .
Nothing changed bar airfoil. Which means wing C/L is a trifle higher . Would build at 45 Oz if you went to great lengths .
The MB 5 drg. is for the same wing , same trip . 1/2 sheet V firm flaps , etc . V secure control system .
V secure grin & bear it, hold on securely pilot . Not to be taken lightly . It would make a mess of your teeth .
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Madona . :-\ ???
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M B 5 .
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Some Details . for Kieth .
You can see , maybe I ' pulled in ' the front intake of the radiator housing , a trifle . To cut down airflow disruption .
like the P 51 needs to be full fuse width , to match / fair into sides . Behind the wing .
ya never know. I may get round to building one. To me it cries out to have retracting landing gear . :P
The gear leg , bent at the right angle top , up & in - inside the wing - gets the gear up & gear down alignment right .
Using a piece of soft / welding wire iinitial to get the angle & mount/platform angle o.k.
But then of course theres a mechanism to actuate required . Which wont weigh nothing. >:(
Underside of nose at top .
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A somewhat less decrepid drg. of the MB3. And a freehand sketch . Which scaled up gets bulky . And would thus require Fuse moulds .
As would the scale one .Which couled be further stretched to match . + 20% span . To 60 " . Add Infinitum . Where does it all end . ::) :-X :-X
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Its BOTh , almost. Tim .
A bit of a general foofaraw for those with Martin Bakers on the brain .
If there was a sink the teeth into it , building & flying , fit health bloke , who can run real fast , I moght pass the paperwork on.
If he can catch me . LL~ VD~ S?P :-\
These things can be a pain in the ass to build , Need good grunt , but are a bit of a ' tolerate no errors ' type of
full speed ahead device to pilot .
However 20 ounces lighter might alter that somewhat . Main pain is Ive got about a dozen other pressing ??? projects .
Theres been collecting info on these for decades, now .
(https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/martin-baker-mb3-denham-guns.jpg)
(https://oldmachinepress.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/martin-baker-mb3-runup.jpg)
Wasnt a ' small field ' aeroplane .
Franks MB5 . Diferance from my MB3 was ' I didnt change anything ' I thought wasnt essential , from the full size .
Though ' free Hand ' can often capture the character of the actual plane as well .If ya get it good .
My wing tapers etc etc are to actual M B specs . I figured they might know what they were doing .
Even if they shoulda let a young hot shot test pilot the thing . He looked somewhat preoccupied .
(http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/files/mb5_236.jpg)