News:




  • September 22, 2018, 03:30:17 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: How do you Draw up Plans?  (Read 1924 times)

Offline mccoy40

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
How do you Draw up Plans?
« on: December 21, 2017, 11:50:11 AM »
All,

This may not be the appropriate area to post this, but, how do you guys draw up plans?

I don't have any Design software but I have built numerous planes of my own design and copied a lot of plans and kit designs. So I am familiar with the construction of a complete plane from scratch. I never draw up a plan though. At best I make templates and paste these onto the wood I'm cutting with rubber cement.

I was wondering do you use a sheet of paper from Office depot and then draw everything with a pencil ? or is there some accepted method of producing a plan that I am not familiar with. I would like to publish or submit for publishing some of the planes I've built.

Any help would be appreciated   H^^

P.S.
I cannot typically post on this site at work(actually any site for that matter). But I can view the site and the forums from work. (I'm off today that's why I'm posting)


Online Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10368
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2017, 01:20:33 PM »
If I want to share, I use a 2D drafting program.  I use Libre-CAD, which is open-source but slightly quirky -- there's a lot of good 2D CAD programs out there of varying degrees of free-ness.  Lots more free-as-in-beer than open source, but there's enough open source stuff.

If you're not comfortable with that, you can draw up plans on big drafting paper, or on butcher paper.

If you're doing it on paper and you want to publish, negotiate with the editor -- they may be able to line you up with someone willing to CAD-ify your paper drawings.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline mccoy40

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2017, 01:53:50 PM »
Cool! I'll look for some free 2d drawing as well as reach out to the editors.

Thanks

Offline FLOYD CARTER

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
    • owner
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2017, 02:11:55 PM »
There was a time when I was pretty good running CADAM (a large IBM mainframe running it), but for drafting projects at home, I use pencil + paper.  CLEARPRINT vellum with a "fadeout" 10 X 10 grid (to the inch) makes drafting machine unnecessary.  Mechanical pencil with 0.7mm HB lead.
"Growing old is easy.
 Staying old is hard"
AMA #796  SAM #188  LSF #020

Offline Matt Spencer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3100
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2017, 06:56:56 PM »
For those not from Star Treck , and for Individual Planes , traditional drafting gear is more than adequate . A T Square & Squares .

But a navigators Rule , preferably about 18 inches . DONT drop it on your toe . But your toe is softer than the floor , so it wont hurt it .



A Parralel rule is o.k. but they slip more .



Wants to be 14 inch or more to be much use .

A Staight Edge , ( Steel Rule ) at least 3 foot long , too . Actually , Just a straight edge & a square will get you under way .

10 inch min. squares !.

Throwing some lines on the back of a piece of paper ( poster ) , filling in and straightening out , can get the ideas on paper quick .

Establish the Datums . Centerline Fuse. , Wing spar / high point , hinge lines etc . FIRST Priority . Everything else will fall in around them .

A set of ships curves ( french Curves ) are usefull . Best cut from plastic sheet from the building supplies , these days .

« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:56:37 PM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Matt Spencer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3100
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2017, 07:11:47 PM »
You find theres only half a dozen or so ( curves ) that get regular use .

Long open ones ( Fuse Curve ) a few tightish ( radiuses  @ Tips ) and the AIRFOIL ones . Which are Most Usefull .

as they can do sequential stagger or shift , to maintain a curve or plain along a flying suface , and with a few datum marks
ca be used for cutting ribs. If you enjoy marking out ribs dimensionally . 1/2 mm's & 1/64 ths etc for thickness step & so on.  :P

The Traditional scale rules the WH*RE in Melbourne F***D off with gave a almost infinite choce of fractions , for wing lay out .

What'd Enzo ferrari's drawing gear be worth . or Pinnafarinas .  :o ::) theres some really dumb bi**hes about , & rissoles .

Thisis Desin At Supermarine .



They have to go into a bit more detail .

If youve measuring sticks in 12ths, 20ths , 64ths etc , plus mm , depth of rib variation per bay , and sweep , are defineable .

But measurements are mainly conveniance and standardiseation .

Two marks on the edge of a strip of paper , and folding it in 10ths or 12ths or whatever , Give Equal & even divisions .
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:38:46 PM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Matt Spencer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 3100
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2017, 07:53:57 PM »
The LONG ones'd be say 16 inch or so . Youd only copy & use the usefull looking ones , or derivatives . ( might tryn scan suma mine )



One ends up putting pencil mark datums on them , doing ribs and consecutive shapes .

If one curve matches LE at Root ant at Tip , @ differant sector , the two marks devided by the number of the bays , gets datum
( mark on curve ) for each rib .

Getting more tecnical than me , you could use a progressive diffrentail variation between the two datums . And Go Cross Eyed
marking it out . :P

2H & 3H are finishing / Final pencils ( Leads ) and are softer & Smudge Easier .

6H is pine line ( like wot for them rib layouts ) and wont show on a print , if light .

4 H is more usual layout pencil . ( use good one , Staedler etc )

A Fine Sharp Tip ( maybe sharpened rolled on sandpaper ) a draftsmans pencil is sharpened on a Fine Taper , NOT a short one .

A Well Sharpened 6H , Draw Two Lines ONE millimeter apart .

Split That.

Split Those .  ( parrallel Lines all )

Youve Got 1/4 mm's . BUT . . .

Two staggered overlapped lines between them now , will get you clear defined 1/10 th m.m. devisions . Which should be close enough for
general drawing .  S?P S?P LL~ LL~ LL~

Just use EQUAL Devisions ( divided by multiples ) of whatever youve got . Measuring Stick . Knotch marks . Knots on string , etc .  ;D H^^

Offline Mark Mc

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 372
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2017, 10:12:21 PM »
For wings, my favorite drawing material is Christmas wrapping paper.  I like it because on the back of the paper are 1" grid lines to make it easier to cut straight lines when you're wrapping presents.  I use the lines to ensure that I get the ribs at right angles to the spars and LE and TE when I draw up my simple planes.

Mark

Offline mccoy40

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2017, 07:44:34 AM »
Wow! Mat great stuff - I haven't seen a draft table since my college days - same for all the french curves!

I should explain myself a little more as to the purpose for the drawing. There are alot of rib sets and wing sets available out in the modeling world. I plan to use one of these to design a plane around it.

For example the banshee wing can be bought from Sig as a wing kit - those patterns would be traced onto the plan as a courtesy and then a note would be added indicating the stock no to buy from Sig. The other parts, stab, elevator, fin rudder, etc. I would draw.

The plane I'm thinking of is the Miss Los Angeles.
   

Online Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10368
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2017, 05:02:54 PM »
... but for drafting projects at home, I use pencil + paper.  CLEARPRINT vellum with a "fadeout" 10 X 10 grid (to the inch) makes drafting machine unnecessary.  Mechanical pencil with 0.7mm HB lead.

I love that stuff.  But I like the 0.5mm lead.  I mostly do CAD these days because I can do moderately large revisions easier (as in -- "Hmm.  Maybe an aspect ratio of 5.5 would be better").
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline mccoy40

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2017, 08:49:16 AM »
it"s on my Christmas list     :!

Offline PerttiMe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1001
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2017, 06:54:44 AM »
Going with computers, CAD isn't the only option. Vector graphics also allows you to get precise measurements and scale up and down without losing definition. You can also start from some CAD files, or maybe even export as a CAD file. Some PDF files out there are actually vector files that you can edit with a vector program. When I play with those, I use the free Inkscape.
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.


Online Vitalis Pilkionis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 02:02:34 AM »
Going with computers, CAD isn't the only option. (...) When I play with those, I use the free Inkscape.

I use CorelDraw, I like it.

Offline Alexey Gorbunov

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2018, 03:15:08 AM »
Rhinoceros 3D.

Offline Dave Hull

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 269
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2018, 03:21:40 AM »
Model Aviation has published pencil on vellum plan drawings without even going thru an inking step. The one I am familiar with was pretty legible even at the magazine scale. Nothing wrong with old school drawings. They have more soul, and often more style. In the past, by going thru the inking step, they were able to enforce a sort of editorial uniformity that we all came to expect from MA. In particular, I enjoyed looking at Joe DeMarco's work.

How did we get here, with everyone expecting CAD because somehow they believe it is more accurate? The mechanical engineers fought with the CAD developers for years to try to get software programmers to understand that mechanical drafting was a highly developed art, not just a bunch of lines in the right places. They continually proved that if you couldn't recognize a quality pencil drawing, then you certainly couldn't create programming to duplicate that same effort via computer. Most of the tools still do not make it easy to achieve what good drafters routinely did (as trained) more than 30 years ago. That said, the tools are way, way better than the sledgehammer code from the early 1980's. Nowadays the issue is different--all the effort is spent on correctly creating the 3-D model which allows you to pop accurate views (any projection or section) you want from the solid model. The drafting now typically gets short shrift. The hope is to supplant all drawings in a model-to-metal file transfer which is still going thru growing pains. Hence the tremendous boom in "maker hardware."  (I saw a pretty decent ME-109 fuselage in the hobby shop that was pieced together from plastic parts grown from a CAD solid model. The intent was to do enough handwork on it to create a master to make a mold.)


In terms of CAD model airplane plans, there are some out there that are getting pretty close in terms of quality and readability of linework, section views and so on. But often one or more basic drafting skills is missing. I saw a plan referenced here not long ago that was done in first angle projection. Despite the fact that the title block said it was standard projection, which in the USA means third angle. Confusing, until you just chuck normal drafting conventions and assume the views are all backwards. Another error you see all the time is the join line between two curved surfaces is incorrect. Like between the canopy surface and the fuselage top deck. It is relatively easy to generate three or four points that define the curve and draw it in. These kinds of issues are why people are still building prototypes of laser cut kits, instead of going straight to production--because the modeling and the drafting are not complete or correct. (Check out the beautifully cut modern kit of the Wagner Dakota free flight. The angled firewall required by the plans is unachievable by the parts as provided, so you have to trim and extend parts because the design work is not accurate.) But since this is just a hobby for most of us, it is pretty close and that is way better than some plans and kits from years ago. This is a bit ironic, because the skills modelers gained from working from inaccurate and incomplete plans and still routinely managed to get the plane built were invaluable to industry when they chose to take advantage of them.

Dave

Offline Paul Smith

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4634
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2018, 09:26:26 AM »
For those not from Star Treck , and for Individual Planes , traditional drafting gear is more than adequate . A T Square & Squares .

But a navigators Rule , preferably about 18 inches . DONT drop it on your toe . But your toe is softer than the floor , so it wont hurt it .

When I drop a valuable object, I try to get my toe under it.



Paul Smith

Offline Ken Culbertson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 624
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2018, 09:44:09 AM »

If you're not comfortable with that, you can draw up plans on big drafting paper, or on butcher paper.

Go for the butcher paper.  You can see through it better than regular paper for tracing (not as good as drafting paper but light years cheaper.  An $15 at Sam's or Costco will last you a lifetime.  It is super easy to erase which makes it easy to ink and it rolls up easily - since it comes in rolls!  Been using nothing but since my mother (not knowing what new smells and noises would follow) gave me some when I was 15 and got the incurable itch to design my own.

CAD is wonderful but my first job was at a drafting table and to me it is more fun to grab a pencil, a straight edge, a couple of triangles, a cheap French Curve, some coffee and a vivid imagination and block out the world while I visualize my new creation about to make a 40 point landing after a perfect flight only to be shattered by that terrible sound "Honey will you please walk the dog?"

Ken
AMA 15382

If it is not broke, don't fix it.

Offline jfv

  • 2018 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 424
Re: How do you Draw up Plans?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2018, 10:38:09 AM »
A really decent free 2D CAD program is DraftSight.  It is essentially an AutoCAD clone.  Here's the link.
https://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight-cad-software/offerings/

Make sure you download it from the Dassualt Systems site.
Jim Vigani


Tags: