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Author Topic: Dennis Adamisin: Clipped flaps...a discussion???  (Read 15674 times)

Offline Leo Mehl

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Re: Dennis Adamisin: Clipped flaps...a discussion???
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2007, 01:47:30 PM »
 I know what happens to a model when the tail surfaces part company. I had this happen on my profile Cardinal when the whole tail section desided to go its own way. I was just starting an inside loop when this happenned and the rest of the airplane whent strait into the pavement. I also know what happens to a full size Cessna 150 with full flaps. you have to point the nose down or it will stall. I have no education as far as aerodynamics but these lesson were quit eyopening and not very scientific HB~> HB~>

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Dennis Adamisin: Clipped flaps...a discussion???
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2007, 11:16:10 PM »
Yo!  Steve,

I don't think so..... See picture below!


Jim...Yeah, that was about the right timeframe, and I believe exactly. You can see that the tips of the flaps are hinged. I believe that the black stripe may be tape, fixing the tip of the flap back to the main section, or may be camo for the split line. I think the one that PW and I had looked at was the DayGlo Pink one, tho this may be the same one, pre-fading. I remember saying something about being able to see its flight path after closing my eyes... an aura of sorts. The actual day was very windy, at the turbulent West Lot at Boeing Space Center. I also commented about the smoke trail blowing around made the pattern appear less perfect than it really was.  His comeback was that less castor and more synthetic would improve that. Can't say if he actually did that.

Dennis (and Ted and Randy etc.)...I was also thinking that clipping the flap tips on an ARF makes maybe more sense than on a scratch built model, unless the flaps are stripped and stiffened with CF, FG, etc. The reduced tip area(s) should allow the rest of the flap to become more effective, with increased angular deflection. I'm not sure I'm explaining this clearly...but the tips of long/soft flaps would not be effective. Getting rid of some of the flexi-flap would make the rest of the flap stiffer and thus more effective. Seems to me that more effective controls would reduce control load, but could be wrong. Another thought is the control ratios.  If you're running 1:1 controls on a reasonably light plane, then reducing the flap area or flap movement, might both reduce control loads, remembering that line tension is a function of weight and speed.

The one thing that always bugged me about flaps, is that when you deploy the flaps (up or down), the   thrustline is fighting the turn. Work on that, wouldja? I had an idea, many years ago, about putting a boat u-joint on the prop shaft and pivoting it up/down, linked to the controls. Finally decided that it would take too much line tension to operate it, but +/- 5 degrees would make a huge difference. If anything would make a stunter do a 5' radius, that would be it, IMO.

Even if this thread stops now...it has been very educational, and I appreciate it. None of this  mw~ , or  HB~>, or even  :X , either! Kewl! Good jobs! y1 Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Online EddyR

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Re: Dennis Adamisin: Clipped flaps...a discussion???
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2007, 08:11:28 AM »
Let me tell you about a Thunderbird I saw fly many times back in 1980 when I was living in Clearwater Fl. This guy had a stock Thunderbird with the flaps disconnected. They were free to move up and down. They were not connected to the control system at all. When he flew the plane it flew a normal pattern and the flaps would move in the direction that you would see them move if they had been connected. I thought before he flew that they would not move or at least move a small amount in the direction of the loop as the lift increased across the wing as the angle changed.I thought maybe they would move in the same direction as the elevator a small amount just fallowing the air flow.The pressure on the bottom did not push up the flap. He only did loops and eights and wingovers but on the wingover you could see the flap move a lot.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Willis Swindell

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Re: Dennis Adamisin: Clipped flaps...a discussion???
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2007, 02:52:18 PM »
I was flying a Sig Magnum and the plastic covering came off the top of the flaps but didn’t come off the flaps trailing edge. It was just flopping in the breeze the length of the trailing edge. The controls reversed up was down and down was up the plane could only climb and dive slightly.
Willis  ;D

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Dennis Adamisin: Clipped flaps...a discussion???
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2007, 10:04:25 AM »
From all this discussion, I have found what appears to be some answers to questions I have asked in the past, but were mostly overlooked.

One was the effect on a light, thinned airfoiled, stunt plane which feels better to me when more elevator is dialed in, in relation to flap movement.

It also answers why Randy has fixed areas at the end of his flaps.  And even the little extended area at the very tip.

Also Capt. Curt mentioned using less control movement as he is flying better, a case I have noticed in the past.  At first, many turns are "panic turns"!  Yank and hope...... LL~

All is very good information!
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by


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